I <3 this, too many are to quick to attack. I miss procuring my fortunes.... or to be politically correct " helping others lighten their material burdens " keep up the good work

Excellent example of why I hate pickpocketing so much.

This may not have been the person who you stole from, but if he had been, he obviously could not have done anything about it. You are clearly not bothered by the arrest, and as long as you pick on lower level characters, there are no real consequences for you at all.

--David

"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"

So what is the plan then?

Make pickpocketing only work vs characters within 10 trainings of you?

-James-
player of Fremie

Mirayam says, "You are not a rogue, sir."

Mirayam exclaims, "You are noble!"

>>I'd much rather they open up pickpocketing for humanoid creatures/NPCs and let the thieves go after them.

Agreed. Make it a skill that can only be used against NPCs, or at least give PCs a flag to opt in or out.

--David

"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"

>>And as far as picking on lower level characters, I'm an equal opportunity lender. I have zero bias based on level.

That doesn't really help. So if you happen to get someone near your own level, fine. Otherwise, once again, you are picking on someone who can do absolutely nothing about it. Even if you get caught and get banished eventually, he gets nothing back. Sure you can tell him to RP if you choose to, but the situation is totally out of his control, and unless you choose to return his things or his coins, they are simply gone for him, no matter what else happens. I can't see how that is fun for anyone.

At the very least, the justice system should compensate someone who is stolen from. If you are caught, you should certainly have to give up what you have stolen--including those things you took before you got caught.

--David

"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"

>I caught up with the character the next day and explained to him via OOC whispers how bantering back and forth could have created some roleplay and entertainment. <Leash>

Because that's totally the norm, right? The majority of thieves are definitely of this mindset.

>>>And as far as picking on lower level characters, I'm an equal opportunity lender. I have zero bias based on level. <Leash>

>That doesn't really help. So if you happen to get someone near your own level, fine. Otherwise, once again, you are picking on someone who can do absolutely nothing about it. Even if you get caught and get banished eventually, he gets nothing back. Sure you can tell him to RP if you choose to, but the situation is totally out of his control, and unless you choose to return his things or his coins, they are simply gone for him, no matter what else happens. <David>

I agree with David, again.

>I can't see how that is fun for anyone.

This I don't agree with. I can certainly see how this is fun for the thief.

>At the very least, the justice system should compensate someone who is stolen from. If you are caught, you should certainly have to give up what you have stolen--including those things you took before you got caught.

This, this, a thousand times this.

>Those of us who play thieves also most likely have non thief characters as well so what do we do? Close containers, put valuables in a sack or whatever and put that inside another bag of some sort. Immediately take spare silvers to the bank... not that hard to give a thief minimal chance to take from you. Its the same as when you hunt... i forget what the creatures are that will open your containers and steal from you once you are killed, but yeah them. So you make preparations before hunting said creature like mentioned above. <PHILLYKING>

Blah blah blah...if a woman walks down a dark alley on her way home from the theatre wearing a big string of pearls and a five thousand dollar bracelet and gets mugged, that does not make the muggers any less guilty or wrong than if they broke into an armored car and stole money from bank guards. Theft is theft. Players of thieves in this game have the biggest "victim's fault" mentality, it's ridiculous.

>Good grief... in real life do people get back everything a thief steals from them if the thief is not caught?

I don't think a single person in this debate has ever, ever asked for loot to be automatically returned to a victim without somehow catching the thief. Nice strawman.

>Nope ...ok unless its something you have insurance for.

Something non-existent in GS.

>Simply put thieves do not have options besides other players,

Something the "whiny non-thieves" have asked for on numerous occasions (non-PC targets).

>But this constant plea for a flag to not allow theft is idiotic,

Not everyone who is dissatisfied with the current system wants such an "opt-out" flag (like me). On this point, I disagree with David, and I'm not the only one.

>So until they either listen to the whines and complaints and remove the skill... use the methods above to protect yourself.

And we're back to the crux of the matter. You're missing the point, which is that the penalties for thievery don't in any way discourage its use. For a thief in GS, it's worth it to steal indiscriminately.

But to address the point you did make, about prevention measures...yeah, they'll avoid a headache, but they're not always practical (theft while hunting), and they're not always foolproof (someone waiting in the east tower, outside the gemshop, outside the bank, etc.).

And of course, once a thief is caught, the victim still doesn't get any of his stuff back, which is really the most ridiculous part of it.

I've been killed by wayward 1030, not to mention every other unfriendly spell, with just Keleborrn, a hell of a lot more than I've ever been stolen from while hunting with all of my characters, ever.

To be perfectly blunt I'm not sure who you're arguing with on this one. These concepts have been posted a dozen times in this folder.

I do like how the blatant mechanics abuse and slamming was turned into Leash's fault though. That's a nice touch, I'll give credit for that one.

-Keleborrn.

My biggest concern is this...

Every single time I post in this folder I have three people that immediately take up offense and attempt to argue points with me that have been made over and over again. Even when i'm not making any point at all and just merely posting a log, these are the people that chime in instead of the people who use the skill contained in the title of the folder.

Icemule Town Center, The Small Park, the North Market, and possibly the Statue on Teras on the only places even remotely feasible at lifting a single silver. Yet you ladies and gentlemen are pompous enough to post in regards to one of my logs claiming how unfair pickpocketing is. That's four rooms (if they're even populated enough) out of 3000 guys, but you're right... pickpocketing is unfair.

With the amount of time invested in scripts and third party programs that close your containers for you. It honest to god sickens me that you people come after pickpocketing the second it's brought up on the message boards.

The bottom line is this fellas, you've won. You've completely emasculated this once great skill yet you still feel the need to pick at the corpse.

The horse is dead people, no sense in beating it any further.

Mark/Leash

PS. I would like to see the pickpocketing skill completely severed from it's relation to sanctuary. Atleast then you'd guys would have something legitimate to cry about, and a leg to stand on for that matter.

<< Yeah, this would make the system far better in all regards. And very much suits what a feudal justice system might do. >>

<< Could be a couple tiers. First tier they just take a couple gems and your silvers to give to the accuser(s). Second tier they take silvers and a whole bunch of gems/wands/etc. Third tier (which would probably only apply to the most prolific thieves), they take every stealable item on you. In all cases, the thief can mitigate the penalty by selling off and banking his rewards, but this cuts into their stealing time, and makes it harder to go on sprees. But if the thief doesn't have enough on him, then the fine can be increased, and part of it can go to the accuser. >>

<< I think this is great for victims, and even good for thieves. a) they don't have to hear so many complaints, and b) it's a whole new avenue of interaction to work with. I guess it's net bad for thieves who don't care about the interaction aspect, but that's okay. >>

I think the system should give back everything stolen from the victim and then base the fine on how much was taken. Say 10x the value of the stolen goods.

It would make thieves think twice about stealing someone blind. Pickpockets don't stand around reaching into a victim's pockets over and over and over again. That's just stupid. Rather, the pickpocket grabs a wallet(silvers) or piece of jewelry(wand, gem, etc.) and moves on. If someone is facing a 250k fine for stealing 25k of gems, he might not do it. Rather, the thief is more likely to hit several people in the room once or twice as a well roleplayed pickpocket actually would do in such a situation.

I really love when I hear the pickpockets on these forums tout roleplay as they demonstrate repeatedly that they have no idea how to actually roleplay a pickpocket, arguing instead that reaching into a victim's pockets 30 times to clean out all their gems is somehow the height of thief RP.

Josh

>I've been killed by wayward 1030, not to mention every other unfriendly spell, with just Keleborrn, a hell of a lot more than I've ever been stolen from while hunting with all of my characters, ever. <Keleborrn>

That's nice. Of course, it has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of options for dealing with thieves in the field.

>I do like how the blatant mechanics abuse and slamming was turned into Leash's fault though. That's a nice touch, I'll give credit for that one.

...where exactly did you get this from? Another nice straw man.

>My biggest concern is this... <Leash>

Did you seriously just complain that people are expressing their opinions about the pickpocketing system...in the pickpocketing folder? It's not the "Pickpocketing Cheerleaders" topic. It's for all discussion on the topic. Where would you rather see it?

>Yet you ladies and gentlemen are pompous enough to post in regards to one of my logs claiming how unfair pickpocketing is.

I don't see how it's pompous, but thank you for the name-calling. The system is, from many people's perspectives, broken. I think it's pretty pompous for someone to revel in a system that derives fun by potentially detracting from someone else's fun.

>I think the system should give back everything stolen from the victim and then base the fine on how much was taken. Say 10x the value of the stolen goods.

>It would make thieves think twice about stealing someone blind. Pickpockets don't stand around reaching into a victim's pockets over and over and over again. That's just stupid. Rather, the pickpocket grabs a wallet(silvers) or piece of jewelry(wand, gem, etc.) and moves on. If someone is facing a 250k fine for stealing 25k of gems, he might not do it. Rather, the thief is more likely to hit several people in the room once or twice as a well roleplayed pickpocket actually would do in such a situation.

>I really love when I hear the pickpockets on these forums tout roleplay as they demonstrate repeatedly that they have no idea how to actually roleplay a pickpocket, arguing instead that reaching into a victim's pockets 30 times to clean out all their gems is somehow the height of thief RP. <Josh>

Heh. Agreed.

It really irritates me that people say there's NO RP when it comes to pickpockets. I beg to differ. Here is just a small part of one of many I've had, edited for extraneous actions (I still have that sapphire):

You notice CuteRogue reach into your pockets and remove nothing.

You smile.

You say, "If you are in need, please, feel free to ask for help."

You hear someone groaning.

CuteRogue says, "Ya know."

CuteRogue says, "When you're so selfless, it really makes this hard to do.."

CuteRogue mutters under his breath.

CuteRogue removes some ambrominas leaf from in his silk pack.

CuteRogue offers you some ambrominas leaf. Click ACCEPT to accept the offer or DECLINE to decline it. The offer will expire in 30 seconds.

CuteRogue chuckles.

You say, "I can always forage up more."

CuteRogue grunts.

CuteRogue put some ambrominas leaf in his silk pack.

CuteRogue says, "I suppose."

You say, "And you do look like you need at least something for those scars."

You rummage through a braided sweetgrass hip-basket and see some cactacae spine, some acantha leaf, some ephlox moss, some haphip root, a brostheras potion, some aloeas stem, a bolmara potion, some torban leaf, a rose-marrow potion, some wolifrew lichen and a talneo potion.

CuteRogue gasps.

You remove some cactacae spine from in your sweetgrass hip-basket.

You offer your cactacae spine to CuteRogue, who has 30 seconds to accept the offer. Click CANCEL to prematurely cancel the offer.

You say, "There you go."

CuteRogue stares at you.

CuteRogue mutters under his breath.

CuteRogue has accepted your offer and is now holding some cactacae spine.

CuteRogue takes a bite of his cactacae spine.

CuteRogue's left arm looks better.

CuteRogue mutters under his breath.

Speaking to you, CuteRogue says, "You win this time."

You say, "Much better. EDIT REST TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT."

You furrow your brow, probably adding a wrinkle or two in the process.

CuteRogue says, "Not much is gonna help that."

You say, "It looks like a rather old scar, yes."

CuteRogue nods to you.

CuteRogue removes some wolifrew lichen from in his silk pack.

CuteRogue offers you some wolifrew lichen. Click ACCEPT to accept the offer or DECLINE to decline it. The offer will expire in 30 seconds.

You accept CuteRogue's offer and are now holding some wolifrew lichen.

CuteRogue nods.

CuteRogue removes some woth flower from in his silk pack.

CuteRogue offers you some woth flower. Click ACCEPT to accept the offer or DECLINE to decline it. The offer will expire in 30 seconds.

You put some wolifrew lichen in your sweetgrass hip-basket.

You accept CuteRogue's offer and are now holding some woth flower.

You put some woth flower in your sweetgrass hip-basket.

You say, "Thank you."

CuteRogue nods.

CuteRogue smirks.

Speaking to you, CuteRogue says, "You could at least shriek or somethin.'."

You look at CuteRogue and shake your head.

CuteRogue mutters under his breath.

CuteRogue squints at you.

You say, "Perhaps if you dragged me into an alley and started searching through my dress."

You say, "Then I might shriek."
CuteRogue grunts.

Speaking flatly to you, CuteRogue says, "That I don't do."

Speaking to CuteRogue, you say, "Then I've no reason to worry."

CuteRogue removes a violet sapphire from in his blue leather sack.

CuteRogue furrows his brow.

CuteRogue offers you a violet sapphire. Click ACCEPT to accept the offer or DECLINE to decline it. The offer will expire in 30 seconds.

CuteRogue nods.

You say, "Was that mine? I thought I sold them all."

Speaking to you, CuteRogue says, "It pales in comparison to you, of course."

You accept CuteRogue's offer and are now holding a violet sapphire.

To begin with, I wasn't the thief.

I was specifically addressing those who are saying there is NEVER roleplay in thievery. Never is a mighty big word.

As far as whether or not it's representative--only in relation to my experiences. Yours may certainly differ.

<< If you guys are going to roll up in here and straight up insult all of us, the least you could do is back that up with a post that you think displays that attitude.-Keleborrn.>>

<< I don't care what training people are, (usually) how well I know them, what their profession is or whatever. Steal everything from everyone always.- Vyst >>

Vyst later posted a log of him stealing from someone at least 20 times as well as others multiple times, unlike what a real pickpocket could or would do. My idea at least would force pickpocket to act like.........pickpockets.

Another idea would be to put in a WARN THEFT verb. You warn a thief and he can no longer steal from you. This would be better than WARN INTERACT, because theft is very likely the only interaction you actually want stopped.

Josh

<< Do you actually think Vyst didn't edit those logs down to just the theft? Did you ever see Vyst in the midst of thievery? Did he say that reaching into a victim's pockets 30 times was the height of RP? >>

You're hangig up on the wrong thing. It's the whole rob from someone multiple times that is unrealistic.

Josh