So, I moved my paly out to the Nations the other day, did some hunting of the arch wights, and the agresh troll chieftans. Things went pretty well for the most part. The exp was slow coming since they are all lower level than I am at 23, but it was interesting (except for boil earth: how I hate thee). I did hit 24 last night, and made a good dent into the level, so that made me happy. I also realized I left the landing without completing the task for my next Voln step like an idiot, and I can't do the comparable one here, so I have to make a trip back, but that's a whole other topic.

In between I was getting tasks from the Adventures guild and one of them I got was for a grizzly Centaur Ranger. Wowee, nevermind the grizzly, I never saw him. The regular rangers were tearing me up into little pieces for dinner. I'm a sword/board paladin, and their arrows were still ripping right into me. I'm sure it was partially because of their casting sounds (never got weeded). My feint didn't work often as my bonus was very low, maybe a +20-25 from my roll, it's only at rank 2 now but I'm converting points to increase it. It seems like even in defense, their arrows were still getting through to me. After getting shot in the chest and then swarmed with basilisks and other centaur, I got sent to the temple, and decided to end my hunting for the evening.

So, after all that, here's the question: what's the best way to fight ranged mobs? Avoid them? It just seems like another level of nasty, should I just wait till feint is more reliable and then stick them in perptual RT?

Appoloin

Haha! Love that skit. Of course, the current state of Paladins in that game last I heard was that they wrecked face.

Can you say: [http://shadowwar.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/see-saw1.jpg]




Appoloin

I guess I should invest in a tower shield, since I have zero training. I just HATE the look of a tower shield. I prefer the image of a kite shield, more "knightly".


Appoloin

Darn typos, zero dodge training ;) I'm 2x shields.

Appoloin

I love the AS I can muster. Definitely a strong selling point of the class.

Bards have a Max AS of +50 through 425 and Kais with a +32. So +82 total. But it takes 75 Ranks in MnE and for 425 to max out and 102 ranks of Telepathy lore (we can only single so I dont know how we get that many.)

As a practical application most bards with have about 56 57 ranks of MnE and depending on how much they like 1030 less than 102 ranks of Telepathy.

Our biggest problem comes in the doubling of CM. Which is at 24/12. Much like Paladins we sacrifice much of our Secondary and Tertiary skills in AS pursuit. Unlike paladins we have an amazing first strike song like 1008 or 1005. 1005 bar none is my most powerful song it makes Charge obsolete. Of course that will change to Rage when I hunt undead.

I would love for Paladins to get something that makes a target kneel in a prone state for a certain length of time. for 5-15 mana. Lets call it Supplicant's Charge.

GBB

>>Darn typos, zero dodge training ;) I'm 2x shields. -- Appoloin

Get the tower shield ASAP and you should be fine. I don't have a single dodge rank to my name either, and I'm a fan of not having any with this build.

~ The girl behind Debia

---

Buy my stuff!
Wehnimer's Landing: www.playershops.com/Debia
Ta’Illistim: www.playershops.com/Elysiana
Ta’Illistim gems and talons: www.playershops.com/Bolissia
River's Rest: www.playershops.com/Katalinah

AS isn't the problem. Nor is getting their DS down since I swapped sbash out for feint. Also, knocking something down on an open ambush with a broadsword isn't always the most easily accomplished thing in the world. Don't know how long it's been for you, but at level 24, it's still not a given that I'll find an opening, and it's only slightly more likely that I'll hit what I'm aiming for. I'm sure I could be more accurate at aiming/hitting if I changed up my training, but I'm not going to stop 3x'ing my armor until I'm in fullplate.

That said, switching to the tower shield has done wonders, and let me actually hunt these critters.

Appoloin

This again falls back on the "best defense is a good offense" strategy: you're training for heavy armor to be able to survive areas, whereas if you could accurately and dependably put things on the floor or disabled you might not need the heavier armor that soon.

--

Yeah, it's to bad a reliable way to knock down multiple mobs that will actually keep them down for a reasonable time is out of the question for paladins.

I would love to be able to apply MOC to my 5 ranks of sbash (which I love with my eonake shield), for exactly that reason, Robert.

Think of the flares one could ignite... I actually seem to kill things more with my shield flares than with my bonded blade's flares.

I had no idea heavier armors had an affect upon my ability to aim. I though it was based only on level/training in whatever factors your aiming situation fell under (ranged/open/hidden). That does affect the way I view my training plan. I may just fall back to 2x once I hit MBP then. Are there any hard numbers on how much training it takes to overcome the deficit applied by heavier armor?


Appoloin

Info is here. Looks like you can disregard what I just said about weighted weapons, since that appears to have been updated in July of last year.
[http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Ambush_saved_post]

"Are there any hard numbers on how much training it takes to overcome the deficit applied by heavier armor?" -- Appoloin

Look at the fourth (4th) column of the skill-rank chart.
[http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Use]

As long as you're using the same weapon, you should be fine.
I was suggesting to use the most difficult one on the hardest target, but hell, you might not be able to tell the difference from the armor. :)
On the other hand, using the easiest weapon (like a Dagger, or a Brawling weapon) on the easiest targets (one of the legs, I think) you might not see any difference from armor, either: if your aiming skills are high enough, you might never be able to miss. (Or, of course, armor might make no difference... hence the testing.)

<shrug>

The biggest point is to always use the same weapon and always aim for the same spot, always on the same critters. (Don't get "grizzled" or whatever beasties involved, in other words.)

This is arguable as I have NO PROOF. But someone on the warriors boards once pointed out that he got a few ranks of Ambush even though he open aims. Claimed that since he did that he no longer gets the "you fail to find an opening". Does not always hit where he aims, but at least he swings. I picked up 2 ranks of ambush and I must say I never fail to find an opening. Have 40 ranks of Perception. So might be something to it.


just my thoughts

"This is arguable as I have NO PROOF. But someone on the warriors boards once pointed out that he got a few ranks of Ambush even though he open aims. Claimed that since he did that he no longer gets the "you fail to find an opening". Does not always hit where he aims, but at least he swings. I picked up 2 ranks of ambush and I must say I never fail to find an opening. Have 40 ranks of Perception. So might be something to it." -- Shock51

Short answer: [http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Ambush_saved_post]
Note specifically bullet point #6 in Cyper's original description.
Note also Ildran's clarification of a year ago.

"I could have sworn i saw somewhere that it was (CMskill + AmbushSkill * .25) when aiming from the open." -- Jessaril

<blink>

Could it have been, ohhh... I don't know, possibly the sixth bullet point in Cyper's original post, to which I specifically referred?
"Skill for melee aiming is one quarter ambush plus one quarter combat maneuvers." -- bullet point #6

Ah; I mis-read your notation of (CM + Am*.25) with the parentheses in the wrong place "(CM+Am)*.25".
So disregard the snarky response.

.

.

However, instead, here I think you're just wrong.

MOC does nothing for aimed swings. :)

.

In the worst possible case, singling in both CM and Ambush is better than doubling CM simply because of the training point savings.
The reason this would be "worst" case is if the calculation were done on number of ranks.

Best case, the calculation is based on skill...
...In which you do even better by singling in both, because you get the extremely cost-effective 5/rank skills first. (That is to say, 10 ranks of each of two skills == 50 + 50 == 100 skill, whereas 20 ranks of one skill--in addition to costing more, see my first point--instead equals on 90 skill.)

.

Now.
Because CM skill also gives CMan points for use in that list of abilities, "more is better" in this regard.
But if you're not so worried about doing CMans and instead want highly accurate swings, single both.

What did you sacrifice to 3x armor and 2x cm? Spell ranks?

well then

Guess Im going to drop 2 ranks of ambush

thank you



just my thoughts