So after the updates I thought I would give a champion task a whirl to check them out. Lo and behold, first task I die. These creatures are flat out just ridiculous for semis and squares. Tell me, if Im locked in permanent RT while they just disarm me over and over again, how is that better? To make matters worse, after I died here, a champion stole my lance. Shocker. Again, I will express my displeasure in these creatures that have been created and put a vote in they be removed altogether.

Tell me if you see a common theme here:

*******[Roll result: 167 (open d100: 88)]
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 16 sec.
R>
The divine force surrounding you slowly fades away.
R>
An Ithzir champion drops her steel maul and snatches up a gleaming crimson eahnor lance!
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion thrusts with a gleaming crimson eahnor lance at you!
AS: +528 vs DS: +428 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +77 = +209
... and hits for 35 points of damage!
Strike pierces gall bladder!
That's gotta hurt!
You are stunned for 3 rounds!
An Ithzir champion fades into view!
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +408 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +88 = +163
... and hits for 18 points of damage!
Torn muscle in your right leg!

An Ithzir champion's crystal-capped maul emits a searing bolt of lightning!

A suit of polished golden armor set with raised eahnor pauldrons partially deflects the onslaught of the shocking attack.
... 5 points of damage!
Light shock to left hand. Fingers tingle.
[beseech]>beseech
...wait 21 seconds.
A gleaming crimson eahnor lance tears itself away from the champion and flies back to your waiting hand!
An Ithzir champion snatches up a heavy steel maul!
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +76 = +95
A clean miss.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +425 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +28 = -37
A clean miss.
An Ithzir seer walks in, calmly surveying the surroundings.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as she attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + 60 + d40 roll: +5 = +84
A clean miss.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and he starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion exhales sharply, exerting mightily.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +69 = +55
A clean miss.
A war griffin soars in.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +32 = +51
A clean miss.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and he starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +32 = +18
A clean miss.
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and holds her palms flat over an Ithzir champion, clearly concentrating. Suddenly the Ithzir champion's abdomen wound begins to mend together, the flesh melding and smoothing over until there is no sign that the injury ever existed!
The Ithzir seer opens her eyes slowly, and you notice that she appears faintly drained.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and he starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as he attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + 60 + d40 roll: +33 = +79
A clean miss.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +54 = +73
A clean miss.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +425 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +40 = -25
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as he attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + 60 + d40 roll: +13 = +59
A clean miss.
A war griffin swoops down from high overhead!
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +435 vs DS: +517 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +27 = -48
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion glances at an Ithzir seer, saying, "Jalorok itona?"
The Ithzir seer grins and nods.
********[Roll result: 147 (open d100: 68)]
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 11 sec.
An Ithzir champion fades into view!
An Ithzir champion drops her steel maul and snatches up a gleaming crimson eahnor lance!
An Ithzir champion thrusts with a gleaming crimson eahnor lance at you!
You move at the last moment to evade the attack!
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +417 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +6 = +105
... and hits for 1 point of damage!
Blow glances off your shoulder.
[Roll result: 166 (open d100: 129)]
An Ithzir champion rushes towards you and connects with a shoulder check!
The Ithzir champion manages to knock you flat on your back! 13 hits!
Roundtime: 9 sec.
A gleaming crimson eahnor lance tears itself away from the champion and flies back to your waiting hand!
An Ithzir champion snatches up a heavy steel maul!
*******[Roll result: 98 (open d100: 35)]
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
An Ithzir champion fails to knock the lance away!
A war griffin flaps its mighty wings rapidly, creating a powerful gust of wind that buffets the area!
The wind then subsides.
An Ithzir seer suddenly opens her eyes and stares directly at an Ithzir champion!
A dense fog gathers around an Ithzir seer, but soon fills the area.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +50 = +69
A clean miss.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +425 vs DS: +479 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +49 = +2
A clean miss.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion exhales sharply, exerting mightily.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +64 = +83
A clean miss.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and he starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +18 = +4
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +497 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +73 = +59
A clean miss.
*******[Roll result: 169 (open d100: 99)]
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 17 sec.
An Ithzir champion drops her steel maul and snatches up a gleaming crimson eahnor lance!
An Ithzir champion thrusts with a gleaming crimson eahnor lance at you!
AS: +528 vs DS: +397 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +25 = +188
... and hits for 27 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the abdomen, just missed vital organs!
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +445 vs DS: +377 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +69 = +144
... and hits for 5 points of damage!
Hard blow, but deflected.
Not much damage.
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +445 vs DS: +377 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +38 = +113
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
Thrust glances off your knee.
Might be stiff tomorrow, but it's okay now.
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
An Ithzir champion thrusts with a gleaming crimson eahnor lance at you!
AS: +528 vs DS: +388 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +20 = +192
... and hits for 27 points of damage!
Smash to the kneecap.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +425 vs DS: +377 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +64 = +119
... and hits for 3 points of damage!
Love tap upside your head!
An Ithzir champion looks around for a moment and lets loose an echoing shout! The champion's warcry is clear and triumphant.
A gleaming crimson eahnor lance tears itself away from the champion and flies back to your waiting hand!
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +465 vs DS: +453 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +45 = +93
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion snatches up a heavy steel maul!
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +469 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +26 = +73
A clean miss.
A war griffin soars in.
A war griffin tries to spear you with its beak!
AS: +450 vs DS: +469 with AvD: +13 + d100 roll: +84 = +78
A clean miss.
An Ithzir seer suddenly opens her eyes and stares directly at you!
An Ithzir champion looks around for a moment and lets loose an echoing shout! The champion's warcry is clear and triumphant.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as he attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
AS: +447 vs DS: +453 with AvD: +36 + 60 + d40 roll: +23 = +113
... and hits for 3 points of damage!
Hit glances off your hip.
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +465 vs DS: +453 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +38 = +86
A clean miss.
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +438 with AvD: +15 + d100 roll: +41 = +61
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as she attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
You roll to one side and evade the attack!
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
An Ithzir champion looks around for a moment and lets loose an echoing shout! The champion's warcry is clear and triumphant.
A war griffin opens its mouth and releases a shrill screech!
A greater construct ignores the terrible screech!
A twinge of fear starts to rise in your stomach, but you control the instinctive urge to freeze.
A war griffin swoops down from high overhead!
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +450 vs DS: +469 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +30 = +18
A clean miss.
!PR>
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +460 vs DS: +469 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +74 = +72
A clean miss.
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +460 vs DS: +469 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +42 = +40
A clean miss.
An Ithzir seer suddenly opens her eyes and stares directly at you!
CS: +411 - TD: +433 + CvA: -31 + d100: +45 - -5 == -3
Warded off!
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +428 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +80 = +168
... and hits for 18 points of damage!
Torn muscle in your right leg!
A greater construct raises its massive foot and attempts to smash you!
AS: +443 vs DS: +445 with AvD: +15 + d100 roll: +25 = +38
A clean miss.
An Ithzir seer closes her eyes and bows her head slightly.
An Ithzir champion's eyes narrow in focus as he attacks.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy crystal-capped maul at you!
You roll to one side and evade the attack!
The champion's face hardens in concentration, and she starts moving faster than seems possible.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +435 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +86 = +167
... and hits for 17 points of damage!
Stomach shot lands with a hollow thump.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +425 vs DS: +398 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +59 = +93
A clean miss.
An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at you!
AS: +465 vs DS: +371 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +91 = +221
... and hits for 28 points of damage!
Bones in left arm crack.
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +460 vs DS: +371 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +3 = +99
A clean miss.
A war griffin rakes at you with a razor-sharp claw!
AS: +460 vs DS: +371 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +47 = +143
... and hits for 5 points of damage!
Close shave!
You take a quick step back.
A war griffin tries to bite you!
AS: +450 vs DS: +371 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +60 = +146
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Blow glances off your shoulder.
DEAD

Im a Paladin with a sancted returning weapon, I have no need for disarm. I would have no need for it against champions either aside from the fact that they are hasting, disarming, swinging and repeating before I am out of my first RT.

I'm not going to go into the discussion of disarm in general as I know it is being phased out. My comments aren't even on the disarm tactic being employed by champions. It could be a charge, a warcry like last time or multiple other locking manuevers, it doesn't particularly matter. The issue at hand is the flagrant RT stacks they put out making it pointless to even try hunting them when swarming and even less when 2 of them can lock you indefinitely. The only reason I lost this battle was because they were stealing my weapon, but I think we can all agree that it is no fun to sit there and just watch them go to town for 2 moments without being able to do anything until you are dead, disarmed or not.

I would argue the hasting issue may be to blame, but I haven't spent enough time (and now nor do I plan to) to decipher that.

>>[Roll result: 167 (open d100: 88)]
>>An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
>>Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
>>Roundtime: 16 sec.

>>[Roll result: 147 (open d100: 68)]
>>An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
>>Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
>>Roundtime: 11 sec.

>>[Roll result: 166 (open d100: 129)]
>>An Ithzir champion rushes towards you and connects with a shoulder check!
>>The Ithzir champion manages to knock you flat on your back! 13 hits!
>>Roundtime: 9 sec.

>>[Roll result: 169 (open d100: 99)]
>>An Ithzir champion swings a heavy steel maul at your crimson eahnor lance and connects!
>>Your crimson eahnor lance is knocked to the ground!
>>Roundtime: 17 sec.


>>These creatures are flat out just ridiculous for semis and squares. Tell me, if Im locked in permanent RT while they just disarm me over and over again, how is that better?
>>I think we can all agree that it is no fun to sit there and just watch them go to town for 2 moments without being able to do anything until you are dead, disarmed or not.

It looks like all but 9 seconds of RT could have been mitigated by proper training, that you state you don't need. I could be wrong, but I believe Squares and Semis can 2x Combat Maneuvers, which puts them as the best classes able to defend against CMans.

I had posted on this previously and the major irritant and method of RT stacking was changed by the GM's for the champions. The current situation you are apparently having is really, as others have said, as to choosing not to train in any disarm. IMO As a semi also in OTF, (ranger) we do very well here and do not have bonding at all.


Blade Aurach the Palestra~~ Wanderer of Mahkra, Night Druid of Isil Dae'gonn, of House Moonshadew Old Ta'Faendryl. ~Relic Hunter~