The final 10 levels were pretty much abandon hope all ye who enter here. A six week descent a level at a time to the final freezing out of all further possibilities at cap.
...
Level: 100 Deeds: 36
Experience: 7574010 Death's Sting: None
Exp. to next TP: 990 Recent Deaths: 0
Mental TPs: 0 Fame: 33838784
Physical TPs: 3 Mana: 308/308 max
(1098 Phy converted to Mnt)
Your mind is as clear as a bell.
...
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (35) ... 110 (40)
Constitution (CON): 93 (36) ... 103 (41)
Dexterity (DEX): 93 (21) ... 103 (26)
Agility (AGI): 100 (20) ... 110 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (35) ... 110 (40)
Aura (AUR): 100 (15) ... 110 (20)
Logic (LOG): 100 (30) ... 110 (35)
Intuition (INT): 98 (24) ... 108 (29)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 110 (30)
Influence (INF): 100 (15) ... 110 (20)
...
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals
Two Weapon Combat..................| 151 51 51
Armor Use..........................| 40 8 8
Combat Maneuvers...................| 302 202 202
Brawling...........................| 302 202 202
Ambush.............................| 111 27 27
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 150 50 50
Physical Fitness...................| 302 202 202
Dodging............................| 403 303 303
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 20
Harness Power......................| 201 101 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25 25
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 50 10 10
Survival...........................| 96 22 22
Perception.........................| 201 101 101
Climbing...........................| 151 51 51
Swimming...........................| 151 51 51
First Aid..........................| 140 40 40
Trading............................| 30 6 6
Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20 20
Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20 20
...
Combat Focus focus 5
Quickstrike qstrike 3
Bearhug bearhug 3
Feint feint 5
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 1
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Surge of Strength surge 3
Cunning Defense cdefense 1
Burst of Swiftness burst 3
Perfect Self perfectself 5
Internal Power ipower 1
Punch Mastery punchmastery 3
Kick Mastery kmastery 1
Grapple Mastery gmastery 1
Rolling Krynch Stance krynch 3
...
You have succeeded at the Kill Creatures task 500 times.
You have succeeded at the Retrieve Heirloom task 459 times.
You have succeeded at the Procure Skins task 31 times.
You have succeeded at the Procure Gems task 520 times.
You have succeeded at the Protect Traveller task 70 times and failed 6 times.
You have succeeded at the Procure Herbs task 546 times.
You have succeeded at the Kill Dangerous Creature task 397 times.
You have succeeded at the Rescue Child task 308 times and failed 8 times.
You have succeeded at the Kill Bandits task 338 times.
You have succeeded at the Help Kill Creatures task 155 times.
You have succeeded at the Help Kill Bandits task 92 times.
...
UAC is an absorbing, intriguing and fun style to play.
But it requires time and space in which to express itself, time and space which most other players are not willing to give it, because it requires considerable sacrifice of their ability to express their styles. Solo in an otherwise empty hunting ground works, two can be company, but three and more practically always crowd me out. "Who that can learn here isn't seeing red yet?" Its me. The one with the UAC character. The warrior was only using UAC when helping out the low level characters and has switched to weapon to fry, the rogue doesn't much care as long as there is a decent haul of boxes, but the monk doesn't fry and does care because UAC hunting is all he's got.
Cap is not a place of sparse hunting grounds, or of hunting grounds that mechanically suit a monk. Nelemar might be huntable as a pseudo warrior in physical armor, Plane 4 is huntable provided 1202 is ditched for physical armor but its rare to find it unoccupied, I think OTF has the right sort of critters, but is not known for being less crowded than the Rift.
...
For much of the last 6 months, during which Vultieri went from 65 to cap, he has had a consistent hunting partner and RP companion. I am deeply grateful to her player for the hundreds of hours we have spent together in the game over that time and for the appreciative audience she provided that has allowed me to develop Vultieri's character and my ability to role play it over that time. Unfortunately I need a character that is viable solo to be able to be enjoy playing it and Vultieri's solo viability drained away in the 90s and vanished at 99 against anything but bandits or the feeble critters that are used in temporary hunting grounds. I capped by learning armor and dumping Ironskin, and by milking the AG using up saved resources from earlier levels.
"Spare a pale violet riftshard for a poor monk" is fun when I could actually accumulate them playing as a monk. It isn't fun when its the only way to get them. It works for getting past a temporary absence of viable hunting. It doesn't work when that absence is permanent.
To my mind Vultieri retired as a monk when I switched to physical armor, but I stuck it out to cap.
I wouldn't dream of retiring any other profession that I was as immersed in as Vultieri at cap, but they all have obvious mechanical improvements to be made. Monks get their viability at lower levels from low training point costs and low number of skills to be trained. This leaves no significant goal to be aimed for except level by the early 90s, and no significant goal at all at cap.
RATHBONER
ROLFARD
PRAT2
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/21/2014 10:12 AM CDT
I know we've talked it to death in many different threads, but I'm curious to your perspective Rath, what do you feel could be done to make Monks more enjoyable and more effective?
JGALT22
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/21/2014 04:19 PM CDT
I know nothing about monks, but Vultieri retiring and leaving his companion behind is an alarm of immense proportions. It was a joy to see those two interact and the lands are poorer for its absence.
RATHBONER
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 09:21 AM CDT
>I know we've talked it to death in many different threads, but I'm curious to your perspective Rath, what do you feel could be done to make Monks more enjoyable and more effective?
There are lots of threads already where I have dealt with this. Some things which particularly come to mind mechanically right now:
The buff platforms (gloves, robes, boots) need to work for all buffs rather than just the older mechanics. They are set up with the requirements of other classes in mind, and essential requirements of monks from them are ignored.
Monks should have the MM buffs as profession specific and the UAF buffs should be generally available rather than vice versa. The MM buffs are the ones that hold their value at high level, UAF ones become trivial as a consequence of the division by UDF. For example, training 1x in lore gives a boost to UAF via 1209 that is worth less at level 91 than it is at level 10 because the +4 to UAF at level 10 is worth more than the +13 at level 91. It just doesn't happen to any other profession that they train 1x in lore and the bonus that the lore gives degrades with level. Even the much detested requirements for stone fist hold their value rather than degrading.
A mass disabler, a profession specific stance forcer, an insta splat move, are all big holes in monk abilities once monks come into contact with other professions. The stance forcer isn't there at all, the others exist for solo situations but they stop working once professions other than monk are around.
Mechanics that make it worth continuing to train skills like MOC. Monks are allowed to train it 2x, but are shut out of the main mechanical advantages of high MOC training. Cheap costs for the 0.5x that works for FoF are nice but after that its pointless.
There's a whole lot of non-mechanical stuff too, but to some extent that can be RP'ed around.
>It was a joy to see those two interact and the lands are poorer for its absence.
Thank you.
There are lots of threads already where I have dealt with this. Some things which particularly come to mind mechanically right now:
The buff platforms (gloves, robes, boots) need to work for all buffs rather than just the older mechanics. They are set up with the requirements of other classes in mind, and essential requirements of monks from them are ignored.
Monks should have the MM buffs as profession specific and the UAF buffs should be generally available rather than vice versa. The MM buffs are the ones that hold their value at high level, UAF ones become trivial as a consequence of the division by UDF. For example, training 1x in lore gives a boost to UAF via 1209 that is worth less at level 91 than it is at level 10 because the +4 to UAF at level 10 is worth more than the +13 at level 91. It just doesn't happen to any other profession that they train 1x in lore and the bonus that the lore gives degrades with level. Even the much detested requirements for stone fist hold their value rather than degrading.
A mass disabler, a profession specific stance forcer, an insta splat move, are all big holes in monk abilities once monks come into contact with other professions. The stance forcer isn't there at all, the others exist for solo situations but they stop working once professions other than monk are around.
Mechanics that make it worth continuing to train skills like MOC. Monks are allowed to train it 2x, but are shut out of the main mechanical advantages of high MOC training. Cheap costs for the 0.5x that works for FoF are nice but after that its pointless.
There's a whole lot of non-mechanical stuff too, but to some extent that can be RP'ed around.
>It was a joy to see those two interact and the lands are poorer for its absence.
Thank you.
PRAT2
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 10:33 AM CDT
I hope the Monk Guru is seeing this thread. I know that the view is that monks are viable as they stand, but seriously, I don't think there is anyone that is particularly happy with the class as it stands and feels that it is fine the way it is. As far as I can see the general feeling is that Monks need tweaking.
Rath, your post here should be a wake up call that Monks need some love. Thanks, for both your well said explanation of why you are retiring the character and your response to my question about what could be done to make things better.
VERSIN
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 11:39 AM CDT
I would also love to hear your thoughts on the journey. Were some creatures/bounties easy/hard? Were some skills/spells worth it more/less? Were some hunting tactics more/less successful? Were any other professions vital/useless to have along the way?
RATHBONER
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 02:28 PM CDT
>Were some creatures/bounties easy/hard?
I did a lot of bounties, essentially because thats the way to get fast advancement from hunting and hunting is about the only activity monks are set up for. I was racing to 40, that meant milking the AG for all it was worth and the habit stuck. Also if you keep to a high rate of bounties when grouped, it doesn't matter that you aren't getting experience from the kills because you are saturated anyway and you get the credit to resaturate when the bounty is done.
The Icemule giants are good examples of easy critters. The servants in the Marsh Keep and the casters in the RR Citadel of hard critters. If its swings or bolts, its candy. If it manoevers or uses CS you are candy if they damage but can manage if they are disablers. Caster type critters become more difficult to deal with as you level. I could take on a caster a couple of levels over me at 50, but needed to have a couple of levels on it by 90.
>Were some skills/spells worth it more/less?
Yes. The ones I trained are worth a lot more than the ones I didn't bother with. ;)
You have to have a society. I don't think its that critical which, but you need the society powers a lot more than other professions do. Any character I play to a high level is always going to be in Voln and the TD from protection is just about enough TD from your society but the higher TD available elsewhere could make other societies attractive to others. Symbol of sleep is critical to being able to take a partner (at least one that doesn't solo bandits) on a bandit hunt. Monks don't get the powers to protect others in that situation that every other profession does (rogue will have to be pretty high level and post cap on some builds, but monks don't ever get it, even by true cap).
Bounce lore training up and down to keep full coverage AsG if you have nice accessories. Its possible to wreck the value of your accessories by having too much lore in a way that is impossible for physical armor users to suffer from having too much armor training because their penalties are based off what they actually wear, rather than what they are trained to wear while there is no difference for 1202.
>Were any other professions vital/useless to have along the way?
Outside spells are critical to taking on casters. You need MnE casters, not so much for the DS from 401,406,414 but for the TD. Monks inherently have huge DS (pre-cap, beyond cap Monk DS becomes poor compared to other professions) and various ways of trading offensive power for even more DS. I'd often be happier taking on the grizzled variant of a square critter 5 levels over me without outside spells than a same level caster with them.
Scrolls and AS, items and MIU, 1204/1208/101/103/107 spell swaps. Whatever it takes to be running those outside spells. Every other character I have played I regard outside spells as optional, but for a monk, critical. You can find some places to hunt without them but it is extremely limiting.
>Were some hunting tactics more/less successful?
If a critter is susceptible to 1207, use it. (and train the harness to have the mana to use it)
You have to force the stance of the critter. Feint, or 1207 and wait for it to stand. Damage is a lot lower and tiering a lot slower if the critter isn't in offensive.
Remove the right arm and left leg of critters not needed for current AG task to decrease the critter density in the hunting ground. (Old rogue trick from when rogues lacked abilities for swarms. Harder from open but often well worth spending the time on.)
Stay on the ground when facing critters who use a lot of knockdowns and particularly shield bashers. I have CMan mobility but its almost always switched off. Its a way of arbitraging your DS advantage to avoid facing a deadly manoever and RT lock from knockdowns.
1210 is good on animals that are immune to knockdowns (snakes).
1203 and 1211 were almost always a waste of mana and time whenever I tried them out. Citadel second floor was the only place I used 1203 reguarly and even then I reckoned it was marginal.
1219 is useful when soloing bandits, (grouped with non-monks its mechanically useless but the flavor may be fun) and for reducing the nuisance of nuisance critters
Grizzled critters are lovely for krynching.
I did a lot of bounties, essentially because thats the way to get fast advancement from hunting and hunting is about the only activity monks are set up for. I was racing to 40, that meant milking the AG for all it was worth and the habit stuck. Also if you keep to a high rate of bounties when grouped, it doesn't matter that you aren't getting experience from the kills because you are saturated anyway and you get the credit to resaturate when the bounty is done.
The Icemule giants are good examples of easy critters. The servants in the Marsh Keep and the casters in the RR Citadel of hard critters. If its swings or bolts, its candy. If it manoevers or uses CS you are candy if they damage but can manage if they are disablers. Caster type critters become more difficult to deal with as you level. I could take on a caster a couple of levels over me at 50, but needed to have a couple of levels on it by 90.
>Were some skills/spells worth it more/less?
Yes. The ones I trained are worth a lot more than the ones I didn't bother with. ;)
You have to have a society. I don't think its that critical which, but you need the society powers a lot more than other professions do. Any character I play to a high level is always going to be in Voln and the TD from protection is just about enough TD from your society but the higher TD available elsewhere could make other societies attractive to others. Symbol of sleep is critical to being able to take a partner (at least one that doesn't solo bandits) on a bandit hunt. Monks don't get the powers to protect others in that situation that every other profession does (rogue will have to be pretty high level and post cap on some builds, but monks don't ever get it, even by true cap).
Bounce lore training up and down to keep full coverage AsG if you have nice accessories. Its possible to wreck the value of your accessories by having too much lore in a way that is impossible for physical armor users to suffer from having too much armor training because their penalties are based off what they actually wear, rather than what they are trained to wear while there is no difference for 1202.
>Were any other professions vital/useless to have along the way?
Outside spells are critical to taking on casters. You need MnE casters, not so much for the DS from 401,406,414 but for the TD. Monks inherently have huge DS (pre-cap, beyond cap Monk DS becomes poor compared to other professions) and various ways of trading offensive power for even more DS. I'd often be happier taking on the grizzled variant of a square critter 5 levels over me without outside spells than a same level caster with them.
Scrolls and AS, items and MIU, 1204/1208/101/103/107 spell swaps. Whatever it takes to be running those outside spells. Every other character I have played I regard outside spells as optional, but for a monk, critical. You can find some places to hunt without them but it is extremely limiting.
>Were some hunting tactics more/less successful?
If a critter is susceptible to 1207, use it. (and train the harness to have the mana to use it)
You have to force the stance of the critter. Feint, or 1207 and wait for it to stand. Damage is a lot lower and tiering a lot slower if the critter isn't in offensive.
Remove the right arm and left leg of critters not needed for current AG task to decrease the critter density in the hunting ground. (Old rogue trick from when rogues lacked abilities for swarms. Harder from open but often well worth spending the time on.)
Stay on the ground when facing critters who use a lot of knockdowns and particularly shield bashers. I have CMan mobility but its almost always switched off. Its a way of arbitraging your DS advantage to avoid facing a deadly manoever and RT lock from knockdowns.
1210 is good on animals that are immune to knockdowns (snakes).
1203 and 1211 were almost always a waste of mana and time whenever I tried them out. Citadel second floor was the only place I used 1203 reguarly and even then I reckoned it was marginal.
1219 is useful when soloing bandits, (grouped with non-monks its mechanically useless but the flavor may be fun) and for reducing the nuisance of nuisance critters
Grizzled critters are lovely for krynching.
SNOWBEAM
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 02:32 PM CDT
<<I would also love to hear your thoughts on the journey. Were some creatures/bounties easy/hard? Were some skills/spells worth it more/less? Were some hunting tactics more/less successful? Were any other professions vital/useless to have along the way?>>
For me, and keep in mind Vultieri and I took different training paths, anything that can't be crit-killed was a pain. Non-corporeal, golem type etc. because it takes a lot of extra roundtime. UAC just doesn't do the same damage as casting or swinging a weapon. Troll kings on the other hand are crittable via UAC for some reason. LOVED troll kings.
I never used any of the offensive spells. At cap, I use Vertigo sometimes in crowds, but CS will never be high enough to make it a sure thing, and its effects aren't really powerful. I use it against bandits when alone, though.
I trained to survive getting hit a lot, mostly as an RP style (Tiger style kung fu and pain resistance!): triple dodge, triple PF, double CMAN and singled in lore to make full use of Iron Skin. I think at cap I had around 20 spells. CMANs were set up along the same path. I still died a lot (and still do)
The thing that monks--especially robe wearing monks--will run into, is TD will always be a problem. Feint is great when running up against casters.
As for other professions: always good to be in groups. Having a wizard around to haste and e-wave makes hunting cake. It's not vital as I have said, I never got frustrated hunting alone, but if you had to choose one profession to be a buddy with, choose a mage.
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
For me, and keep in mind Vultieri and I took different training paths, anything that can't be crit-killed was a pain. Non-corporeal, golem type etc. because it takes a lot of extra roundtime. UAC just doesn't do the same damage as casting or swinging a weapon. Troll kings on the other hand are crittable via UAC for some reason. LOVED troll kings.
I never used any of the offensive spells. At cap, I use Vertigo sometimes in crowds, but CS will never be high enough to make it a sure thing, and its effects aren't really powerful. I use it against bandits when alone, though.
I trained to survive getting hit a lot, mostly as an RP style (Tiger style kung fu and pain resistance!): triple dodge, triple PF, double CMAN and singled in lore to make full use of Iron Skin. I think at cap I had around 20 spells. CMANs were set up along the same path. I still died a lot (and still do)
The thing that monks--especially robe wearing monks--will run into, is TD will always be a problem. Feint is great when running up against casters.
As for other professions: always good to be in groups. Having a wizard around to haste and e-wave makes hunting cake. It's not vital as I have said, I never got frustrated hunting alone, but if you had to choose one profession to be a buddy with, choose a mage.
-The mind behind Rowmi's eyes.
VERSIN
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/22/2014 09:09 PM CDT
Thanks for the helpful responses!
RATHBONER
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/23/2014 07:05 AM CDT
>I never used any of the offensive spells. At cap, I use Vertigo sometimes in crowds, but CS will never be high enough to make it a sure thing, and its effects aren't really powerful. I use it against bandits when alone, though.
Racial LOG bonus, I set LOG to be max from day 1, plus LOG enhancives. I was one enhancive away from LOG maxxed out at a 50 bonus at cap. It might take 3 or 4 shots, but I had a decent chance at stunning a crawler with 1210 and getting a bonus that helped keep it stunned until I tiered. Getting enough spells to make it a sure thing is possible, but with my 27-40 spells it was already close enough. You can take a worse failure rate on a setup with 3s soft RT than on one with 3s hard RT.
>For me, and keep in mind Vultieri and I took different training paths, anything that can't be crit-killed was a pain. Non-corporeal, golem type etc. because it takes a lot of extra roundtime.
A lot of non-corps have health set at the point where other professions can kill them with a single shot of their top attack. What they can just unload on, you have to spend 45-60s RT of setup, control and damage moves on.
I'd see how many heads golems had as a way of amusing myself (top grapple crit is pulling the head off). A 13-headed decaying Knight is my record. I did also try to see how many Voln death crits (jellied brains and spear hand) I could rack up, but that was depressing rather than amusing. I so hate it that what used to be a death crit message on undead became a no result.
>singled in lore to make full use of Iron Skin. I think at cap I had around 20 spells. CMANs were set up along the same path. I still died a lot (and still do)
I reckon this is a big reason you died a lot a lot more than me. Lore bonus on Ironskin is nowhere near worth the training point cost. The only reason to train it is to get to a full coverage AsG if you use accessories, or a chest coverage one if you don't. If it can't hit you, it can't hurt you and you can use those training points on getting a higher DS via learning more spells sooner. The higher TD from more spells sooner is pretty important too, and that's the other big difference between out training. I squeezed out every last bit of TD to be just about able to ward everything that was same level and put my martial stance as krynch, while you used your martial stance to ameliorate the effect of being easily wardable.
>I trained to survive getting hit a lot,
I trained to survive getting swung at a lot. I'll take being missed in a brig AsG over being hit in a chain AsG any day. I was still pretty robust even when I did get hit, as long as it wasn't a wound that destroyed dodge DS. Surviving getting hit a lot is a game to leave to those with plate and shield to play.
>but if you had to choose one profession to be a buddy with, choose a mage.
The trouble with any profession other than a monk is that they have to give up using a lot more of their power than you do. Having a mage to ewave and haste you is fine as long as they don't want to be rapidfiring themselves. Cutting your hunt from 25 minutes to 15 minutes is great for you, extending their hunt from 5 minutes to 15 minutes may not be something they want to do often.
Racial LOG bonus, I set LOG to be max from day 1, plus LOG enhancives. I was one enhancive away from LOG maxxed out at a 50 bonus at cap. It might take 3 or 4 shots, but I had a decent chance at stunning a crawler with 1210 and getting a bonus that helped keep it stunned until I tiered. Getting enough spells to make it a sure thing is possible, but with my 27-40 spells it was already close enough. You can take a worse failure rate on a setup with 3s soft RT than on one with 3s hard RT.
>For me, and keep in mind Vultieri and I took different training paths, anything that can't be crit-killed was a pain. Non-corporeal, golem type etc. because it takes a lot of extra roundtime.
A lot of non-corps have health set at the point where other professions can kill them with a single shot of their top attack. What they can just unload on, you have to spend 45-60s RT of setup, control and damage moves on.
I'd see how many heads golems had as a way of amusing myself (top grapple crit is pulling the head off). A 13-headed decaying Knight is my record. I did also try to see how many Voln death crits (jellied brains and spear hand) I could rack up, but that was depressing rather than amusing. I so hate it that what used to be a death crit message on undead became a no result.
>singled in lore to make full use of Iron Skin. I think at cap I had around 20 spells. CMANs were set up along the same path. I still died a lot (and still do)
I reckon this is a big reason you died a lot a lot more than me. Lore bonus on Ironskin is nowhere near worth the training point cost. The only reason to train it is to get to a full coverage AsG if you use accessories, or a chest coverage one if you don't. If it can't hit you, it can't hurt you and you can use those training points on getting a higher DS via learning more spells sooner. The higher TD from more spells sooner is pretty important too, and that's the other big difference between out training. I squeezed out every last bit of TD to be just about able to ward everything that was same level and put my martial stance as krynch, while you used your martial stance to ameliorate the effect of being easily wardable.
>I trained to survive getting hit a lot,
I trained to survive getting swung at a lot. I'll take being missed in a brig AsG over being hit in a chain AsG any day. I was still pretty robust even when I did get hit, as long as it wasn't a wound that destroyed dodge DS. Surviving getting hit a lot is a game to leave to those with plate and shield to play.
>but if you had to choose one profession to be a buddy with, choose a mage.
The trouble with any profession other than a monk is that they have to give up using a lot more of their power than you do. Having a mage to ewave and haste you is fine as long as they don't want to be rapidfiring themselves. Cutting your hunt from 25 minutes to 15 minutes is great for you, extending their hunt from 5 minutes to 15 minutes may not be something they want to do often.
ROLFARD
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/27/2014 10:26 PM CDT
>>For example, training 1x in lore gives a boost to UAF via 1209 that is worth less at level 91 than it is at level 10 because the +4 to UAF at level 10 is worth more than the +13 at level 91. It just doesn't happen to any other profession that they train 1x in lore and the bonus that the lore gives degrades with level.
1x in necromancy is required to always be able to animate like level (more or less) Look at the MAL (maximum animation level) formula and you'll see what I mean. I'll bet that either I didn't quite understand or that diminishing returns exist in almost all lore-augmented spells.
1x in necromancy is required to always be able to animate like level (more or less) Look at the MAL (maximum animation level) formula and you'll see what I mean. I'll bet that either I didn't quite understand or that diminishing returns exist in almost all lore-augmented spells.
RATHBONER
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/28/2014 04:32 AM CDT
>1x in necromancy is required to always be able to animate like level (more or less) Look at the MAL (maximum animation level) formula and you'll see what I mean. I'll bet that either I didn't quite understand or that diminishing returns exist in almost all lore-augmented spells.
The normal diminishing return is that adding the 50th lore rank gives less than adding the 1st.
Its not normal that you are worse off with 91 lore ranks at level 91 than you are with 10 lore ranks at level 10. The normal diminishing returns mean that you are normally only 3 times better off rather than 9 times better off. The diminishing returns monks get make you 25% worse off.
Do sorcerers have any lore where training intermediate values makes you worse off? Like with 1202 where 0-4 is bad 5-14 works, 15-74 is bad, 75-104 works, 105-151 is bad? The ranges where it works and where it is bad will vary with character gear and level, but I'd take a serious detriment (like dying 3 times in 4 bandit hunts to death crits that wouldn't have been death crits) if I trained my lore from 10 to 15 ranks and I'd need another 60 to get rid of it. Do sorcerers have any lore "boosted" spell that works like that?
ROLFARD
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/28/2014 08:59 PM CDT
>Its not normal that you are worse off with 91 lore ranks at level 91 than you are with 10 lore ranks at level 10.
I'm not sure I understand how you can be worse with 91 lore ranks at 91 than 10 at 10.
I'm not sure I understand how you can be worse with 91 lore ranks at 91 than 10 at 10.
RATHBONER
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
07/29/2014 05:46 AM CDT
>I'm not sure I understand how you can be worse with 91 lore ranks at 91 than 10 at 10.
UAF buffs are divided by UDF which increases with level. 13 > 4 but 13 / UDF(91) < 4 / UDF(10)
UAF buffs are divided by UDF which increases with level. 13 > 4 but 13 / UDF(91) < 4 / UDF(10)
ALUVIUS
Re: Vultieri, the First Master, capped
08/06/2014 03:46 PM CDT
Based on the history of monks I think only one thing will be implemented based on this thread:
MTK's will no longer be crittable with UAC attacks, but will now be crittable by every other form of attack known.
Oh and way to go Rathboner! :)
