Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/13/2016 10:39 PM CDT
So is any progress being made on making Water lore for these two spells, you know, good?

I remember posting about this within the first 2 days of these changes being made and I received a very vague answer that it was being looked into. That was like, what, almost a year ago now?

I'll reiterate my concern.

First of all I'd like to say that I think the actual benefits from Water lore for these two spells are actually very good and they were very well thought out bonuses.

However when you dig deeper into how these spells work with other systems you quickly realize the benefits are very lackluster.

Take 403, the way experience gain works with lockpicking is the more challenging the lock compared to your lockpicking skill (which takes into account bonuses from the lockpick being used as well as 403) the more experience you gain so most people only use 403 on really challenging locks, or they don't care about the experience gain. This means the lore benefit of not damaging your lockpick has very limited use because most of the time people don't actually want 403 on. My suggestion is to make 403 give you like a 1 minute buff when cast that gives you the damage reduction from Water lore, that way you can cast 403, gain the buff, then STOP 403 and still have the water lore buff on you. Go ahead and make this buff self cast only if needed.

The main problem with 404's water lore bonus is apparently the lowest RT you can receive from disarming a trap is indeed 5 seconds. This might not sound like much of a problem except for the fact that I remember doing some testing and it turns out my rogue already reaches the minimum RT of 5 quite frequently even without water lore, and almost all of his trap disarm RTs were 8 seconds or less, meaning his -9 second RT from 404's Water lore bonus was largely useless because at most he only saw a 3 second RT reduction, and even that was rare because most of the time he saw a 0 or 1 RT reduction.

My solution here is easy enough; remove the 5 second minimum RT when someone is using 404+water lore. Heck, make it a zero RT minimum. If a rogue has 303 disarm ranks and 91 water lore ranks then they deserve to go ahead and have a zero second disarm RT.

As it stands now I'm probably going to use my upcoming FIXSKILLS to remove all of his water lore meaning I will have wasted a FIXSKILLS to train him into water lore and will waste another FIXSKILLS to train him out of it.
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/14/2016 01:05 AM CDT
>Take 403, the way experience gain works with lockpicking is the more challenging the lock compared to your lockpicking skill (which takes into account bonuses from the lockpick being used as well as 403) the more experience you gain so most people only use 403 on really challenging locks, or they don't care about the experience gain. This means the lore benefit of not damaging your lockpick has very limited use because most of the time people don't actually want 403 on. My suggestion is to make 403 give you like a 1 minute buff when cast that gives you the damage reduction from Water lore, that way you can cast 403, gain the buff, then STOP 403 and still have the water lore buff on you. Go ahead and make this buff self cast only if needed.

Ooh, or how about an EVOKE version that only does the water lore magic, without actually boosting your lockpicking skill?
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/14/2016 01:06 AM CDT
>Ooh, or how about an EVOKE version that only does the water lore magic, without actually boosting your lockpicking skill?

Holy heck I love that idea even better :O

Please GMs? PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE?
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/14/2016 05:42 PM CDT
>My solution here is easy enough; remove the 5 second minimum RT when someone is using 404+water lore. Heck, make it a zero RT minimum. If a rogue has 303 disarm ranks and 91 water lore ranks then they deserve to go ahead and have a zero second disarm RT.

Hey I'm flexible. How about leaving the 5 second minimum RT in place but make it so water lore also reduces the RT when checking for traps. The RT for checking for a trap but not finding one can be upwards of 20 seconds, this would be a nice little boost.

If that's too much make it so the water lore bonus is halved for the RT for checking for traps. That way at 105 ranks it's only -5 second RT but that's still a pretty nice little bonus.

At the present from a rogue lockpicking perspective this is really the only lore boost for lock picking and they are really limited in this respect.
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/15/2016 07:01 AM CDT
>Ooh, or how about an EVOKE version that only does the water lore magic, without actually boosting your lockpicking skill?

My thought exactly.
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/15/2016 03:23 PM CDT
The people have spoken and they are saying they want these water lore changes!

Viva la Water Lore!

#waterlore4lyfe
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/15/2016 10:42 PM CDT


>Viva la Water Lore


You're dead to me.
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/15/2016 11:14 PM CDT
>You're dead to me.

:(
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/17/2016 11:05 PM CDT
So how does Water Lore work with 403 and 404 on the test server?
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/19/2016 11:36 AM CDT
>So how does Water Lore work with 403 and 404 on the test server?

Elemental Lore - Water.............| 302 202

>incant 403
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Lock Pick Enhancement spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
A scintillating light surrounds your hands.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


>incant 404
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Disarm Enhancement spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
You become calm and focused.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Looks like it's working ok!

~ Methais

Reading the wizard nerfs:
http://i.imgur.com/hNaDm98.gif
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/19/2016 12:35 PM CDT
>>Looks like it's working ok!

ROFL! Pop a box!

But, pro tip, be sure to check it first. ;)

Doug
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Re: Water Lore and 403 and 404 05/19/2016 05:05 PM CDT
>Looks like it's working ok!

Just "ok" and not "spectacular"? :(
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