Heeh! I love that Bruce Lee video. I am going to post it in the Discussion with Simu folder. (I posted about monks and their relation to the other professions.) THAT film show what monks should be able to do in GSIV.

"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."

It's a little off-topic but I don't think raising the pick time of the robo picker would matter. I would wager a fairly large number of people using the town smith use some type of script.
I would love ANY attempt to improve the picker situation be it bonuses, RT changes, TP adjustments, whatever.

That said, I live in Landing and rarely have a problem finding a locksmith (and take a moral stance against robo-picking), it's more the other cities (and higher levels) where it's a problem.


Bringing this back to the 403 change: It's hard to judge it in a vacuum. Presumably there will be quite a few other additions to water lore and you might be seeing a lot more of them around. In which case this is kind of a nice boost to wizards giving lore. It doesn't come up ALL the time but I've certainly cast it quite a bit when someone's stretching to get my boxes and they don't have self-cast available. I wish we could somehow combine my potential water bonus with their self-cast but I'm not sure how that would work.

>>most of that video is fake.<<

That's immaterial to my point. Elanthia is a fantasy world; we can raise the dead, summon demons, heal fatal wounds instantly, hide in plain sight and generally do stuff that defies the laws of physics in any "normal" dimension. It's hardly a great leap to suggest that monks get the same perks as everyone else.

Sorry I derailed it slightly! Can't wait to see what is going to change for 404! Thanks for the updates!

<<I'm not sure this is the place to discuss it, but I really feel you should address the problem directly rather than applying penalties that just annoy players but won't change their behavior a bit. Most of the time I have no choice but to get my boxes opened between hunts and there are no locksmiths available to do so. Adding further penalties to the NPC doesn't do anything to encourage more players to take up locksmithing. It's a lazy solution that helps nobody.

~Taverkin>>

What he said.

<<Adding RT to the town locksmith is a great idea.>>

Except, it's not.

You don't ruin one thing in an attempt to make another thing better. You improve the other thing.

<<<Adding RT to the town locksmith is a great idea.>>>

I've always felt old Larton should slow down a bit. What's the rush, anyway?

~ GtG

Please see my suggestion for adding locksmith bounties that encourage players to take up locksmithing and to seek out locksmiths by providing Adventurer's guild experience and bounty point rewards to both parties. Posted in the rogue locksmithing folder.

~Taverkin

>We have very few ferrous metals in Elanthia. Why build with something that rusts when we've got tons of mithril... -Tamuz

Allow me (or rather this video) to extol the values of mithril (or space dwarven technology).

https://youtu.be/whNiOZwsVBg

~Brian, Sepher's player

1.1m exp for 90 ranks (-9 seconds) of water lore isn't wildly over the top for a post cap goal.

Are rogues going to get a fix skill a long with the wizards and sorcerers after the ELR?

<And why Seed6, for crying out loud? Is it really THAT abusive that someone were able to reduce their trap-or-lock RT by 6-10 seconds (with 20-50 ranks of Lore), rather than requiring over a <hundred?

<If it were a Seed3, someone could get a Premium Enhancive for 7 ranks/3 of <something else> and at least get a 2-step benefit.
<If it were a Seed1, someone could get lucky and find a 6-rank item, and get a 3-step benefit.

<Seriously, Seed6?!? WTH!


I agree completely. But, because this is GS...

I think it's justified. I mean, disarming traps and picking locks takes time. It would be unbalanced to have it take less than <insert arbitrary value here>. No, no, no! I definitely can't agree! ;)

~Taverkin

>OK you hold your breath for Simu to completely revamp the picking system and I will request a minor change to tilt the existing system in a reasonable way that reflects years of changes in population dynamics.

If your car has a flat tire, do you fix it by replacing the flat tire? Or do you stick nails in the other 3 tires instead?

~ Methais

<OK you hold your breath for Simu to completely revamp the picking system and I will request a minor change to tilt the existing system in a reasonable way that reflects years of changes in <population dynamics.

Two problems with this:

1) You aren't shifting the balance. If the issue is purely time with no other considerations, it usually won't matter how much RT you add to the NPC locksmith because a big part of the problem is spotty availability of player smiths. If there are any smiths around, are they actually present? Are they AFK? Are they out hunting? How much RT can you possibly add to offset this? Even if every locksmith action required only a 3s RT, the system is not appealing enough to get enough locksmiths seeking work.

2) You don't need to overhaul the entire system to address locksmith availability. And ideal solution simply needs to provide an incentive that acts against the time factor. A very obvious incentive that weighs favorably against time is: EXPERIENCE. Relatively easy solution: Add locksmith bounties that reward locksmiths as much for their choice to be locksmiths as we reward hunters for hunting. Make it a group task that also provides some incentive to players to seek out locksmiths such that using the NPC is like throwing away experience, which is worth more than the time saved by using the NPC to most players.

Basic details of how this would work:

- Locksmith bounties are offered only to players with 2x-3x lockpicking skill.

- Locksmith bounties function as a group task, using the group bounty timer separate from the personal timer.

- Locksmith bounties are for 8-10 boxes and reward 800-1000 experience and BPs based on the skill level of the locksmith upon turn-in.

- Players who provide boxes toward the completion of a locksmith bounty receive 25 instant experience and a small amount of BPs at the time the box is opened. It may be necessary to cap the amount of experience that may be gained in this way over a given period of time, but it should not be so restrictive as to discourage participation.

What do you think? Would that require overhauling the entire locksmith system? And do you think if we had something like this you would find more players choosing to play locksmiths and seek out work and also more players opting to use player locksmiths vs. the NPC? I can tell you right now I wouldn't choose to throw that much instant experience down the drain along with all that silver just to save a few seconds. The only reason I use the NPC is that there aren't often locksmiths available and using player smiths cuts into my experience gain due to the time factor. Address both issues and believe me, I'm all in on using player smiths!

~Taverkin

Another change I'd like to see would be trap/lock experience not being subject to "must rest"/mind state. It just goes into your field experience bucket, period.
(Like raise dead experience used to do, and Adventurer Guild bounty experience does now.)

Possibly THE biggest reason why I would stop or slow down my picking--back when I was actually one of the higher pickers, and on every night (so, you know... it's been a while)--was that I wasn't getting anything out of it. I was already fried, why should I keep going? Sure, I could do it out of the goodness of my heart, or some people would offer to pay, but I would much rather get the experience.

<Adding roundtime to Larton won't cause people to use town pickers.

<Reducing roundtime for PC locksmiths and increasing their availability won't cause too many people to switch to PC locksmiths.

<People like Larton because he can be stuck o. The end of their loot script and open all boxes automatically with no interaction. My rogue can't duplicate that, no matter how many times he <advertises on SERVICE, ESP, or stands around in the locksmith muttering loudly about his extortion in front of people running the scripts and not even noticing him.

Assuming we aren't talking about AFK script bots here, which are a separate issue entirely and wouldn't be a factor in either case, what are your thoughts on providing an experience incentive to locksmiths and their customers? Answer this: If by using Larton I am literally throwing away experience - and not the kind I can go get via hunting whenever I want, but INSTANT experience that adds to my potential gain over the same period of time - then why would I not seek out a player locksmith even if it takes more time?

I'm not sure if people are understanding what I mean here. I'm not talking about that 25 experience per box going into the bucket as it does when you kill a monster. You earn that reward instantly when the locksmith opens the box you handed him. That means if I'm saturated from a bounty I just turned in after a hunt, I still have every reason to seek out the locksmith because the 10 boxes I brought back are now worth 250 experience earned on the spot on top of what I'm absorbing from my hunt and bounty.

The locksmith, on the other hand, is completing a bounty just like going out on a creature culling task but instead of killing monsters he's opening boxes. When he opens enough boxes, he can turn that task in for the 800-1000 experience we expect from bounties.

Explain to me why you think players wouldn't participate in such a system. Perhaps I'm lacking perspective?

~Taverkin

I think it's a super idea, Tav. Not likely to be part of ELR but worth putting a GM on.

Please consider that the lack of available locksmiths most of the time results in a situation where penalties applied to the npc fail to serve their purpose and instead waste player time unnecessarily.

Honestly, I don't see why you assume this is too much work. The bounty system already exists.

Taverkin

No.

>>(Also, if someone is damaging a lockpick, they actually did want 403 even if they don't know it.)>

>>This fallacy has resulted in more annoyance for me then just about anything else in GS. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've either lost out on experience or wasted time waiting for 403 to drop (or worse, missing out on an LM rep when I was still working on it) because some well-meaning person with access to MnE spells tosses it one me the second I get a pick stuck in the lock without bothering to ask if I need/want it.

I was making more of a tongue-in-cheek joke than suggesting I cast this on someone without asking.

---

Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog

>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p

What about letting 403 be cast ON the lockpicks for only the durability increase? For 404... do you all get exp from disarming too? I have never smithed a box so I really don't know.

Tal.