Would we be able to get LM to lower the disarm RT as well as the picking RT? On those rare occasions that you get people backed up to get boxes picked, they're suddenly reminded of one of the reasons why they usually go to the town smith instead. Discovering no traps is quite a bit of RT but some traps can give you over 40 seconds of RT.
LM advances the rogue's understanding of traps as well as locks so I figure it's not an unreasonable request.
EASTMANM2
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
08/13/2012 11:35 AM CDT
It does.
The time to detect a blank remains 15-20s but all the other disarm RTs drop as you gain LM ranks.
EASTMANM2
Re: Disarm RT
08/13/2012 06:23 PM CDT
I assumed that detection/disarm of some traps was quick because they were in the 10-50 range and my max trap is in the 450 range. I'd never heard that before. Is this according to a GM?
Ultimately, discovering no traps was part of my initial request and whether or not your statement is true doesn't change the RTs I'm seeing at cap as a 2x locksmith with 46 ranks of LM. I'd still like to see them reduced, personally. It's basically waiting for waiting's sake.
Ultimately, discovering no traps was part of my initial request and whether or not your statement is true doesn't change the RTs I'm seeing at cap as a 2x locksmith with 46 ranks of LM. I'd still like to see them reduced, personally. It's basically waiting for waiting's sake.
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
08/14/2012 04:39 AM CDT
I just watched the trap RT as I progressed through LM.
Get more ranks LM if you want to see more of it. The trap RT reduction is in the later ranks. With only 46 you are missing out on a lot of it.
Get more ranks LM if you want to see more of it. The trap RT reduction is in the later ranks. With only 46 you are missing out on a lot of it.
EASTMANM2
Re: Disarm RT
08/19/2012 11:15 AM CDT
No offense, but that's a pretty bad way to test that LM ranks reduce trap RT. I asked around and the most experienced rogue-players I know of have never heard that either and further denied that it's true. I'm a pretty mechanics-driven, crunch-the-numbers guy myself and I've never heard that.
No matter what the case though, my suggestion to make the RTs lower still stands.
No matter what the case though, my suggestion to make the RTs lower still stands.
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
08/19/2012 11:39 AM CDT
I quite like the scientific method myself. What do you prefer?
EASTMANM2
Re: Disarm RT
08/19/2012 02:33 PM CDT
If you capped, ceased training in picking related skills, and then recorded RTs for the various traps as you progressed from 0 to master in LM, gathering a large sample of points at each rank, and then shared your recorded data, everyone who disagrees with you ought to eat their hat.
You state that disarm RT reduction scales non-linearly with LM ranks (i.e. later ranks contribute more than earlier ranks). This requires knowledge across numerous ranks (as opposed to a comparison between no ranks and mastery).
Say you wanted to detect changes in RT on the order of 10%. You'd need to record 100 disarm RTs per trap type per rank. Say we bundle scarabs as one type of trap. That's 15 types of traps. Say each trap occur with equal likelihood (such that you never have to disarm the same trap more than once) and that half of the boxes you ever open are trapped. That's 6415*1002 = 192,000 boxes total. Say it takes 30 seconds per box total (this is probably around half of what is reasonable). That's 30*94,500/3,600=1,600 hrs total. If you average 4 hours of gameplay per week in which you are picking locks (and only picking locks) non-stop, that's 400 days worth of work.
Here's a few numbers for myself as a non-casual player who has picked all of his own boxes (across all of his characters) for the past 7 years save a couple dozen (probably all but 10 total in reality): This year 2841 boxes picked so far, 872 trapped, 1969 untrapped (~69% untrapped), disarm RTs for some scarab traps (to drop scarab traps) for fixed LM & training showed variation between 22-36 seconds. Those might give the roughest idea of scale.
You state that disarm RT reduction scales non-linearly with LM ranks (i.e. later ranks contribute more than earlier ranks). This requires knowledge across numerous ranks (as opposed to a comparison between no ranks and mastery).
Say you wanted to detect changes in RT on the order of 10%. You'd need to record 100 disarm RTs per trap type per rank. Say we bundle scarabs as one type of trap. That's 15 types of traps. Say each trap occur with equal likelihood (such that you never have to disarm the same trap more than once) and that half of the boxes you ever open are trapped. That's 6415*1002 = 192,000 boxes total. Say it takes 30 seconds per box total (this is probably around half of what is reasonable). That's 30*94,500/3,600=1,600 hrs total. If you average 4 hours of gameplay per week in which you are picking locks (and only picking locks) non-stop, that's 400 days worth of work.
Here's a few numbers for myself as a non-casual player who has picked all of his own boxes (across all of his characters) for the past 7 years save a couple dozen (probably all but 10 total in reality): This year 2841 boxes picked so far, 872 trapped, 1969 untrapped (~69% untrapped), disarm RTs for some scarab traps (to drop scarab traps) for fixed LM & training showed variation between 22-36 seconds. Those might give the roughest idea of scale.
EASTMANM2
Re: Disarm RT
08/19/2012 02:35 PM CDT
Note that the asterisks bolded some text which would read as: "That's 64x15x100x2 = 192,000 boxes total"
CRACKER03
Re: Disarm RT
08/20/2012 07:08 PM CDT
>Note that the asterisks bolded some text which would read as: "That's 64x15x100x2 = 192,000 boxes total"
you're forgetting to factor in the hidden roll(s) and its affect on RT...so throw in an expanential in there for good measure.
That said, my rogue mastered LM somewhere from level 92-95 (start to finish and give or take 2 levels on either end) and noticed no significant reduction in disarm RT. To be honestly I can't say I've seen significant reduction even going from 2.3x to 3x disarm training. Admittely, base RT is closer to 13-16 instead of 18-20, but there still seems to be an entirely random factor in there in a hidden roll.
I'd like to see it, but don't recall it anywhere in the early LM release conversations.
--Jurp
you're forgetting to factor in the hidden roll(s) and its affect on RT...so throw in an expanential in there for good measure.
That said, my rogue mastered LM somewhere from level 92-95 (start to finish and give or take 2 levels on either end) and noticed no significant reduction in disarm RT. To be honestly I can't say I've seen significant reduction even going from 2.3x to 3x disarm training. Admittely, base RT is closer to 13-16 instead of 18-20, but there still seems to be an entirely random factor in there in a hidden roll.
I'd like to see it, but don't recall it anywhere in the early LM release conversations.
--Jurp
TGO01
Re: Disarm RT
02/23/2013 10:59 PM CST
I just wanted to bump this to say I think this is desperately needed. Going from 20 seconds to detect no trap to 40+ seconds to detect a trap on a different box to another 30 seconds to disarm said trap and it gets a bit silly. Especially if you get unlucky rolls with picking the locks and you're looking at 15-20 seconds per pick attempt on top of the 60+ seconds you just spent disarming the box. I can understand the need for a RT but I really don't see the harm in LM shaving off a few seconds to detect a trap and disarm it.
SHAFTJ
Re: Disarm RT
02/23/2013 11:49 PM CST
I'm positive that it does, if you find a trap. No traps still ends up with 16(5?)-20, but finding a trap leads to much lower RT than with no ranks in LFM.
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 01:55 AM CST
I'm not sure if I'm entirely following, but my sorcerer who has absolutely NO training in lockpicking at all was double checking a plated box the other day so I didn't pop the wrong one, and it was only 3 RT. Considering its normally 15ish when I see nothing, that was kind of nice. I'm guessing thats what you are talking about?
________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg."
________________________________
>Barnom exclaims, "I smell delicious!"
>Barnom says, "Like sage and nutmeg."
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 03:23 AM CST
Whats being talked about are these RTs and how they are affected by LM.
...
>disarm trunk
You carefully begin to examine a badly damaged steel trunk for traps...
Peering closely into the lock, you spy a tiny translucent scarab wedged into the lock mechanism. The scarab's shell is etched on the back with a large eye that seems to shift lazily about.
It looks like an extremely difficult trap (about -241).
You still have a good enough picture of the trap in your mind, that you could try to disarm it.
Roundtime: 12 sec.
R>disarm trunk
Having discovered a trap on the trunk you begin to carefully attempt to disarm it...
You feel like you've made a lame attempt.
You carefully nudge the scarab free of its prison without disturbing the lock too much. The scarab falls from the lock and onto the ground in front of you.
Roundtime: 22 sec.
...
Other things being equal, someone not mastered in LM would have taken a few seconds longer to spot and disarm that bug.
Its pretty difficult to see it in the field amongst all the other variables, but LM has picking contest tasks, and those have a lot of a standard trap which makes it fairly obvious when your disarm RT gets shaved.
...
>disarm trunk
You carefully begin to examine a badly damaged steel trunk for traps...
Peering closely into the lock, you spy a tiny translucent scarab wedged into the lock mechanism. The scarab's shell is etched on the back with a large eye that seems to shift lazily about.
It looks like an extremely difficult trap (about -241).
You still have a good enough picture of the trap in your mind, that you could try to disarm it.
Roundtime: 12 sec.
R>disarm trunk
Having discovered a trap on the trunk you begin to carefully attempt to disarm it...
You feel like you've made a lame attempt.
You carefully nudge the scarab free of its prison without disturbing the lock too much. The scarab falls from the lock and onto the ground in front of you.
Roundtime: 22 sec.
...
Other things being equal, someone not mastered in LM would have taken a few seconds longer to spot and disarm that bug.
Its pretty difficult to see it in the field amongst all the other variables, but LM has picking contest tasks, and those have a lot of a standard trap which makes it fairly obvious when your disarm RT gets shaved.
TGO01
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 11:41 AM CST
If LM does indeed lower trap roundtimes then these silly 40+ second RTs to discover/disarm traps should be reduced. I have 45ish ranks and I got a 40+ second roundtime the other day. Like the other guy said less and less people are going to want to wait around while someone spends one minute or longer opening each of their boxes (assuming no line) when they can just use the NPC locksmith which takes one second per box.
DOUG
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 12:09 PM CST
Not a ton of experience in this space, but is this not inversely tied to the relative ease of the trap?
In other words, if you should have got it at the outset -- but didn't -- the penalty is greater than if the trap was very difficult for you?
Doug
In other words, if you should have got it at the outset -- but didn't -- the penalty is greater than if the trap was very difficult for you?
Doug
TGO01
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 12:29 PM CST
>>In other words, if you should have got it at the outset -- but didn't -- the penalty is greater than if the trap was very difficult for you?
This particular trap should have been easy for my character to disarm and he got it on the first try. I don't often come across 40+ second roundtimes for spotting/disarming traps but it sure is annoying when it happens and I think it's a bit excessive.
This particular trap should have been easy for my character to disarm and he got it on the first try. I don't often come across 40+ second roundtimes for spotting/disarming traps but it sure is annoying when it happens and I think it's a bit excessive.
DOUG
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 01:08 PM CST
Of course we would. Without attempting to understand a thing, if it somehow affects us negatively in our view, we'd find it annoying. Every profession has it, and I have my belief as to why.
The question is do we understand this thing?
Doug
The question is do we understand this thing?
Doug
TGO01
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 02:34 PM CST
Pretend I never said annoying, it's unnecessary and doesn't make sense anymore.
SHAFTJ
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 04:22 PM CST
Only the trap type affects the base RT for detection/disarm as far as I know, your likelihood of disarming does not come into play in that regard.
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 04:46 PM CST
>If LM does indeed lower trap roundtimes then these silly 40+ second RTs to discover/disarm traps should be reduced. I have 45ish ranks and I got a 40+ second roundtime the other day. Like the other guy said less and less people are going to want to wait around while someone spends one minute or longer opening each of their boxes (assuming no line) when they can just use the NPC locksmith which takes one second per box.
Different traps have different base times. Long trap RTs actually generate more interaction and thats the point of PC rather than NPC smiths. How much conversation can you manage inside a one second RT?
It takes me the 15-20s RT from clean boxes to even manage a single exchange of a short sentence or gesture each. A string of easy to spot and disarm traps can actually be worse because their RT is too short for anything but typing smithing commands. If there actually is a conversation, the roundtime involved in opening a hunt's worth of boxes is trivial compared to the talking time.
Some traps you'll spot in 5s, some you'll take 45. Mostly its down to the trap type, but there's also a big random element, a big bonus if the trap is easy compared to your skill, and a small bonus if you are mastered in LM. The disarm RT works similarly, but long spot times (you spend ages looking for the ends of those springs) tend to go with short disarm times (it just takes a moment to poke them into the box).
Different traps have different base times. Long trap RTs actually generate more interaction and thats the point of PC rather than NPC smiths. How much conversation can you manage inside a one second RT?
It takes me the 15-20s RT from clean boxes to even manage a single exchange of a short sentence or gesture each. A string of easy to spot and disarm traps can actually be worse because their RT is too short for anything but typing smithing commands. If there actually is a conversation, the roundtime involved in opening a hunt's worth of boxes is trivial compared to the talking time.
Some traps you'll spot in 5s, some you'll take 45. Mostly its down to the trap type, but there's also a big random element, a big bonus if the trap is easy compared to your skill, and a small bonus if you are mastered in LM. The disarm RT works similarly, but long spot times (you spend ages looking for the ends of those springs) tend to go with short disarm times (it just takes a moment to poke them into the box).
TGO01
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 04:58 PM CST
>>Long trap RTs actually generate more interaction and thats the point of PC rather than NPC smiths.
That's silly, using that logic every interaction between players should take a minute. Mass spells should take a minute per cast, healing should take a minute per wound. I think there are a lot of reasons why most people prefer to use the NPC locksmith these days over a PC, I'm not trying to say long RTs are the only reason, but I'd say long waits discourage people to seek out PC locksmiths not the other way around.
That's silly, using that logic every interaction between players should take a minute. Mass spells should take a minute per cast, healing should take a minute per wound. I think there are a lot of reasons why most people prefer to use the NPC locksmith these days over a PC, I'm not trying to say long RTs are the only reason, but I'd say long waits discourage people to seek out PC locksmiths not the other way around.
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 05:09 PM CST
Picking locks is dangerous. If I get too involved in conversation, I'm likely to forget to disarm a trap or miss a disarm and try to pick the lock anyway. As a result, I tend not to converse when picking locks.
RATHBONER
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 05:17 PM CST
>Only the trap type affects the base RT for detection/disarm as far as I know, your likelihood of disarming does not come into play in that regard.
I am going on small differences observed with picking contest boxes, and large differences observed between low level bard and high level lockmaster on the same box, being down to a large bonus for it being easy plus a small bonus for LM but I haven't got a direct test on it.
I am going on small differences observed with picking contest boxes, and large differences observed between low level bard and high level lockmaster on the same box, being down to a large bonus for it being easy plus a small bonus for LM but I haven't got a direct test on it.
SHAFTJ
Re: Disarm RT
02/24/2013 08:37 PM CST
<<I am going on small differences observed with picking contest boxes, and large differences observed between low level bard and high level lockmaster on the same box, being down to a large bonus for it being easy plus a small bonus for LM but I haven't got a direct test on it.>>
I trust that more than my own memory, so I'll believe you!
I trust that more than my own memory, so I'll believe you!
KEITHOBAD
Re: Disarm RT
12/17/2014 08:19 PM CST
I'll also point out it's illogical for it to take longer finding a trap than not finding one. Not finding one = looking at every possible place for a trap that you know of. Finding one means you can stop looking after you've seen it.
I would like all trap searching RTs reduced drastically. I feel like locksmiths are the only service provider that actually provides a WORSE service than the NPC counterparts. And we actually need to spend significant TPs and coin for the priviledge!
Loresinging -> free in TPs and Coin, no risk, no NPC equivalent!
Popping -> essentially free for casters in Tps, no coin, costs mana (which is time basically), some risk
Healing -> no coin, costs mana
bashing -> no TPs, low coin (guild membership), high risk w/o other training
130 -> NO TP, lose 1/2 of the silvers inside, NO RISK (which is BS imho)
Enchanting -> Costs coins for pots, no competition from NPC!
Ensorcelling -> Free, free, no competition.
Locksmithing -> lots of TPs, 100's of thousands for picks which are in constant risk, low health risk if you're not pushing your range.
The NPC smith should be seriously nerfed and some of those time savings should be directed at the smiths. Why is ok for a healer to be able to insta-fry healing but we need to take 20min of picking? I don't even care for myself, but the obscene amount of time wasting is partly what drives away customers. (especially if the smith needs calibration reps, jeezus, 20sec disarm + 12 measure + 0-20 picking + ~20 recalibrating = 42-62sec/box with no trap?! C'mon guys, we can do better.)
I don't even care which idea for improvement is chosen, but we need GMs to notice that this is not cool and at least start moving in the right direction towards making this a more convenient service!
OM1E5GA
Re: Disarm RT
12/21/2014 07:14 PM CST
<<130 -> NO TP, lose 1/2 of the silvers inside, NO RISK (which is BS imho)>>
You mean 125?
Also, there is the risk of death or injury if you don't check for a glyph trap before casting (or lack enough perception to see a glyph trap, but then Helen Keller could probably have spotted one).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
You mean 125?
Also, there is the risk of death or injury if you don't check for a glyph trap before casting (or lack enough perception to see a glyph trap, but then Helen Keller could probably have spotted one).
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
THROGG
Re: Disarm RT
12/21/2014 10:11 PM CST
While the locksmithing process could benefit from some streamlining, especially lockmastery reps, I think you are overreacting a bit.
>> Finding one means you can stop looking after you've seen it.<<
In game terms, yes; you know that, but your character doesn't. In a real situation like that which the game is simulating ... no. You never know, a clever critter might have double trapped a box. Gotta check it thoroughly.
>>especially if the smith needs calibration reps<<
You do calibration reps when picking for clients?? Sheesh! I'm amazed you get any repeat customers.
>>Enchanting -> Costs coins for pots, no competition from NPC<<
Takes forever to do a 7x enchant, and not much market nowadays for the finished product.
>> I feel like locksmiths are the only service provider that actually provides a WORSE service than the NPC counterparts.<<
Have you ever used the NPC locksmith?? Astronomical fees; the customer is lucky if he/she breaks even! I usually have customers, especially early in the AM when no other smiths are around. People wait in line for me to be available; nobody wants to pay his fees.
Some of the other comparisons you are making are irrelevant. Who cares if empaths can fry fast from healing? What does loresinging have to do with anything? Locksmithing isn't a rogue's sole source of experience, after all. I can fry in 10 minutes by hunting. As for breaking picks ... yeah, I occasionally break some. The money I save by picking my own boxes, instead of tipping a locksmith, makes up for it.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
>> Finding one means you can stop looking after you've seen it.<<
In game terms, yes; you know that, but your character doesn't. In a real situation like that which the game is simulating ... no. You never know, a clever critter might have double trapped a box. Gotta check it thoroughly.
>>especially if the smith needs calibration reps<<
You do calibration reps when picking for clients?? Sheesh! I'm amazed you get any repeat customers.
>>Enchanting -> Costs coins for pots, no competition from NPC<<
Takes forever to do a 7x enchant, and not much market nowadays for the finished product.
>> I feel like locksmiths are the only service provider that actually provides a WORSE service than the NPC counterparts.<<
Have you ever used the NPC locksmith?? Astronomical fees; the customer is lucky if he/she breaks even! I usually have customers, especially early in the AM when no other smiths are around. People wait in line for me to be available; nobody wants to pay his fees.
Some of the other comparisons you are making are irrelevant. Who cares if empaths can fry fast from healing? What does loresinging have to do with anything? Locksmithing isn't a rogue's sole source of experience, after all. I can fry in 10 minutes by hunting. As for breaking picks ... yeah, I occasionally break some. The money I save by picking my own boxes, instead of tipping a locksmith, makes up for it.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
CRACKER03
Re: Disarm RT
12/23/2014 04:18 PM CST
>Locksmithing isn't a rogue's sole source of experience, after all. I can fry in 10 minutes by hunting.
experience or income. I haven't picked for coin or exp in ages....can't even get my rogue to bother with a lockpick if he's not saturated, and doesn't take tips unless the client is extremely fast.
>As for breaking picks ... yeah, I occasionally break some. The money I save by picking my own boxes, instead of tipping a locksmith, makes up for it.
This is definitely an issue at lower levels, but I tend to agree that you'll more than make up for these expenses in the difference between picking your own boxes and having to pay NPC or another smith. That and repairing picks is a lot cheaper than replacing, especially if you can do it yourself via lock mastery. Granted, they do seem to get very brittle after more than one repair...which LM APPRAISE does not properly acknowledge/account for. I think its messaging is solely based of the material...which might be worth a GM's look if they get some time and ambition.
that said, if I thought there was a chance we'd get another skill before the rest of the guilds caught up I'd be all for disarm mastery, or some way to decrease disarm RT. I do seem to spend far more time than should be necessary at 303 ranks disarm, 205 ranks perception, but I have a hard time complaining too much about this minor annoyance.
though I would like something like the new warning at the Adventurer's Guild to catch you from picking a box after you found a trap on it...because at least once or twice a year I manage to do that when I get distracted picking a stack of boxes...but again...that's prolly asking more than I/we deserve.
--Jurp
experience or income. I haven't picked for coin or exp in ages....can't even get my rogue to bother with a lockpick if he's not saturated, and doesn't take tips unless the client is extremely fast.
>As for breaking picks ... yeah, I occasionally break some. The money I save by picking my own boxes, instead of tipping a locksmith, makes up for it.
This is definitely an issue at lower levels, but I tend to agree that you'll more than make up for these expenses in the difference between picking your own boxes and having to pay NPC or another smith. That and repairing picks is a lot cheaper than replacing, especially if you can do it yourself via lock mastery. Granted, they do seem to get very brittle after more than one repair...which LM APPRAISE does not properly acknowledge/account for. I think its messaging is solely based of the material...which might be worth a GM's look if they get some time and ambition.
that said, if I thought there was a chance we'd get another skill before the rest of the guilds caught up I'd be all for disarm mastery, or some way to decrease disarm RT. I do seem to spend far more time than should be necessary at 303 ranks disarm, 205 ranks perception, but I have a hard time complaining too much about this minor annoyance.
though I would like something like the new warning at the Adventurer's Guild to catch you from picking a box after you found a trap on it...because at least once or twice a year I manage to do that when I get distracted picking a stack of boxes...but again...that's prolly asking more than I/we deserve.
--Jurp
KEITHOBAD
Re: Disarm RT
12/25/2014 12:53 AM CST
One of the arguments against rogues getting faster picking was the excuse that it should take a certain minimal amount of time to gain experience. That seems to solely apply to picking as frying in every other way seems much much faster. (And in many ways irrelevant as you are hard capped by the number of boxes you get)
I spent 6 hours today in the tower, during the busiest time of the day, and had maybe a half dozen customers come in. (Two repeats) I wonder how many boxes Larton picked in that time?
If you want to make excuses, be my guest, but clearly there is an issue when the npc is so much more used! Do you see floods of people going to the healer and cleric npcs? I sure don't.
My bringing up those other player services isn't irrelevant. It's to show that picking is bottom of the services pile as far as cost/benefit goes.
I would agree that enchanting is also a hassle and the value for 7x has taken a hit but I still see the service slots selling for millions even for just 5x enchants. My question is: if there was an instant npc provider of that service, would anyone still have pcs do it? (Not what I want, btw)
THROGG
Re: Disarm RT
12/25/2014 02:24 AM CST
>>I spent 6 hours today in the tower, during the busiest time of the day, and had maybe a half dozen customers come in<<
Just curious; do you have your locksmithing listed under services available? Do you advertise on the nets that you are available? A lot of times I drop by the tower and it's empty, so I suspect a lot of people have gotten used to going elsewhere for picking services. I advertise and always seem to have customers; some clients are regulars, and even save boxes up for me. They come to me when I am resting in TSC, the small park or an Inn table. They come to me when I am totally saturated and don't really want to be bothered! But, I never turn anyone down; there will perhaps be times in the future that I will want their return business.
It's hard for me to imagine any savvy player going to Larton if they actually know there are any players offering picking services; his fees are both ridiculous and non-negotiable. My non-rogue characters in fact will throw their boxes in the well rather than go to Larton. (Umm, ok, this is an RP choice, admittedly; they consider Larton more a thief and extortionist than a locksmith, and refuse to truckle under to him.) Other folks might use Larton under such circimstances, only because they don't want to miss the occasional (astronomically rare) valuable item.
You can't compare picking boxes to the rescue professions, really. Clerics and empaths are both more visible and more aggressive in their search for clients. Someone dies and several clerics and empaths fog to them, usually within seconds. My empath and cleric are much more hunters than rescuers, but they both keep an eye on the death notices, so they can help friends in time of need, and they also monitor the various thought nets. Just because they prefer to hunt doesn't mean they neglect those in need; they will, although reluctantly, go answer a call for help if no others are around to do so.
And yes, there are times when no cleric is around, or even healers; what do folks do? They eat herbs or have someone drag their corpse to the NPC cleric, rather than bleed to death or decay! Nor is raising folks a reliable source of experience. You do know, I hope, that the experience a cleric gets from raising someone is proportionate to the level of the deceased? My capped cleric learns almost nothing unless the dead person is over 70 trains. And talking of delay? There is a cooldown period before any cleric can raise again, while lower level clerics with less efficient raises also need to wait to regain spirit. A locksmith can choose to adjust the experience they get from boxes by using picks with lesser mods; clerics have no such options.
OK, I will admit that Empaths do fare better than most professions during invasions; their services are much more in demand during those times. They're on the other end of the spectrum from clerics, though. They end up healing like mad during those emergencies, even after they can't accumulate any more experience. They also need to monitor their own health to avoid bleeding out themselves.
Personally, I think that the professions are pretty well balanced; well, except for monks who got screwed somewhere along the line. Mind you, you can find something to envy about every profession other than your own, if you are so inclined. I'm not.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
Just curious; do you have your locksmithing listed under services available? Do you advertise on the nets that you are available? A lot of times I drop by the tower and it's empty, so I suspect a lot of people have gotten used to going elsewhere for picking services. I advertise and always seem to have customers; some clients are regulars, and even save boxes up for me. They come to me when I am resting in TSC, the small park or an Inn table. They come to me when I am totally saturated and don't really want to be bothered! But, I never turn anyone down; there will perhaps be times in the future that I will want their return business.
It's hard for me to imagine any savvy player going to Larton if they actually know there are any players offering picking services; his fees are both ridiculous and non-negotiable. My non-rogue characters in fact will throw their boxes in the well rather than go to Larton. (Umm, ok, this is an RP choice, admittedly; they consider Larton more a thief and extortionist than a locksmith, and refuse to truckle under to him.) Other folks might use Larton under such circimstances, only because they don't want to miss the occasional (astronomically rare) valuable item.
You can't compare picking boxes to the rescue professions, really. Clerics and empaths are both more visible and more aggressive in their search for clients. Someone dies and several clerics and empaths fog to them, usually within seconds. My empath and cleric are much more hunters than rescuers, but they both keep an eye on the death notices, so they can help friends in time of need, and they also monitor the various thought nets. Just because they prefer to hunt doesn't mean they neglect those in need; they will, although reluctantly, go answer a call for help if no others are around to do so.
And yes, there are times when no cleric is around, or even healers; what do folks do? They eat herbs or have someone drag their corpse to the NPC cleric, rather than bleed to death or decay! Nor is raising folks a reliable source of experience. You do know, I hope, that the experience a cleric gets from raising someone is proportionate to the level of the deceased? My capped cleric learns almost nothing unless the dead person is over 70 trains. And talking of delay? There is a cooldown period before any cleric can raise again, while lower level clerics with less efficient raises also need to wait to regain spirit. A locksmith can choose to adjust the experience they get from boxes by using picks with lesser mods; clerics have no such options.
OK, I will admit that Empaths do fare better than most professions during invasions; their services are much more in demand during those times. They're on the other end of the spectrum from clerics, though. They end up healing like mad during those emergencies, even after they can't accumulate any more experience. They also need to monitor their own health to avoid bleeding out themselves.
Personally, I think that the professions are pretty well balanced; well, except for monks who got screwed somewhere along the line. Mind you, you can find something to envy about every profession other than your own, if you are so inclined. I'm not.
"So, what does that green line on the graph represent?"
"Oh, that's the projection of a hypothetical offspring from a union between Sauron and Cruella de Ville; we use that as a baseline for determining character alignment."
OM1E5GA
Re: Disarm RT
12/25/2014 03:09 AM CST
<<Just curious; do you have your locksmithing listed under services available? Do you advertise on the nets that you are available? A lot of times I drop by the tower and it's empty, so I suspect a lot of people have gotten used to going elsewhere for picking services. I advertise and always seem to have customers; some clients are regulars, and even save boxes up for me. They come to me when I am resting in TSC, the small park or an Inn table. They come to me when I am totally saturated and don't really want to be bothered! But, I never turn anyone down; there will perhaps be times in the future that I will want their return business. >>
Since leveling out of the Rest I've been hunting and picking around the Landing and have definitely have had an experience more like KEITHOBAD's then yours. Advertising on SERVICE and the amunet are good ways to make others aware that you're working, but it really does seem like most folk don't even bother looking for locksmiths in the Landing unless there's one they know around.
I don't know if they just don't bother with boxes unless they're trying to get them for a friend or if they're using other methods to get into them. Either way, the few folk that do come to me to open their boxes ALWAYS come up to me in the tower (maybe once in the last 6 months has someone sent me a thought asking me to pick for them) and they're either from critters that are below level 20 or minotaur boxes... with the rare person hunting in the levels between them.
From what I've seen, you either need to be well known in the town you're in or you need to be able to pick boxes from capped hunting grounds if you want to pick regularly for others these days. Luckily, I'm not too far off of being able to tackle boxes from capped critters.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Since leveling out of the Rest I've been hunting and picking around the Landing and have definitely have had an experience more like KEITHOBAD's then yours. Advertising on SERVICE and the amunet are good ways to make others aware that you're working, but it really does seem like most folk don't even bother looking for locksmiths in the Landing unless there's one they know around.
I don't know if they just don't bother with boxes unless they're trying to get them for a friend or if they're using other methods to get into them. Either way, the few folk that do come to me to open their boxes ALWAYS come up to me in the tower (maybe once in the last 6 months has someone sent me a thought asking me to pick for them) and they're either from critters that are below level 20 or minotaur boxes... with the rare person hunting in the levels between them.
From what I've seen, you either need to be well known in the town you're in or you need to be able to pick boxes from capped hunting grounds if you want to pick regularly for others these days. Luckily, I'm not too far off of being able to tackle boxes from capped critters.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
KEITHOBAD
Re: Disarm RT
12/26/2014 03:51 AM CST
As a matter of fact I do advertise in SERVICE and will drop what I'm doing and come to a customer if they send me a thought (which I encourage with my ad). The number of people who actually do so is EXTREMELY limited. I think it's happened twice in the last month?
I think part of it is the leveling thing. When I left, the lion's share of people were levels 5-25 whereas now you see a LOT more people 60+. That makes it tough to be an effective picker if you can't handle the higher level boxes.
I don't do it for exp nor money (though they are nice perks), I enjoy locksmithing. I just wish it was easier to get work.
PENNINGTONB1
Re: Disarm RT
12/26/2014 02:11 PM CST
>I don't do it for exp nor money (though they are nice perks), I enjoy locksmithing. I just wish it was easier to get work.
It's definitely a different world now. As I'm sure many have suggested, you just have to go out and get it yourself. When I play my rogue, I'm pretty aggressive about making sure people know I'll pick for them. If I play him for any length of time, I manage to keep people coming to me pretty regularly, even saving their boxes for me.
Don't worry about how many people are going to the town locksmith. It only matters how many people are coming to you. You can get 'em if you try.
And no one (general no one) should pick for free. It's bad business. People like to pay. Take their money and then some.
~Brian, Sepher's player
It's definitely a different world now. As I'm sure many have suggested, you just have to go out and get it yourself. When I play my rogue, I'm pretty aggressive about making sure people know I'll pick for them. If I play him for any length of time, I manage to keep people coming to me pretty regularly, even saving their boxes for me.
Don't worry about how many people are going to the town locksmith. It only matters how many people are coming to you. You can get 'em if you try.
And no one (general no one) should pick for free. It's bad business. People like to pay. Take their money and then some.
~Brian, Sepher's player
KEITHOBAD
Re: Disarm RT
12/27/2014 04:11 AM CST
Oh I take the money! That's just not my driving influence.
I hear what you are saying about creating a customer base, it seems logical.
There will always be a place in my heart for the old east tower.
GAMING2K
Re: Disarm RT
12/27/2014 07:34 AM CST
Not sure if this was suggested or not. Why not just add RT to the town locksmiths? Just have a set RT per box that they pick.
