So this happened today:
A skeletal ice troll swings an enruned ice-covered battle axe at you!
AS: +195 vs DS: +163 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +95 = +164
... and hits for 42 points of damage!
Your skull cracks in several places.
Nice breeze up there now.
You are stunned for 8 rounds!
I'd like to point out that:
1) the skeletal ice troll's AS is weaker than mine; and
2) I was spelled up.
Despite all the spells and all the training, I still got stunned for a ridiculously long time--far longer than any stun for any critter I've ever seen--and could not save myself.
How do you stop this? I really, REALLY hate the extended stuns. And nothing I do seems to prevent them.
GEHAYI
AVAIA
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 12:26 PM CDT
I assume you were in Offensive Stance?
The simplest way is stance-dancing. Wait in Defensive stance until they attack, then go to Offensive, attack, and switch back.
Avaia, player of
The simplest way is stance-dancing. Wait in Defensive stance until they attack, then go to Offensive, attack, and switch back.
Avaia, player of
KRAKII
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 01:12 PM CDT
Hunt with a partner who can wave oak wands? (Or natively cast Untrammel [for Web] or Stun Relief [for stuns] or Shout Rally [to break conditions on your whole group].)
Disarm them? Battle-axe can cause a lot of damage; hand, not so much. Even if they claw or pound at you--it's a troll, after all--it probably does less than a two-hander.
Wear a helm? (With padding.)
Wear heavier (better crit divisor) Armor Group?
Pad your (suit of) armor?
Lower their AS/raise your DS even more? (Fog, Dark, Weapon Deflection, Sounds.)
.
But yeah, the basic position is, "let them act, THEN you beat the snot out of them."
Disarm them? Battle-axe can cause a lot of damage; hand, not so much. Even if they claw or pound at you--it's a troll, after all--it probably does less than a two-hander.
Wear a helm? (With padding.)
Wear heavier (better crit divisor) Armor Group?
Pad your (suit of) armor?
Lower their AS/raise your DS even more? (Fog, Dark, Weapon Deflection, Sounds.)
.
But yeah, the basic position is, "let them act, THEN you beat the snot out of them."
GEHAYI
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 01:19 PM CDT
I was stance dancing. A second troll came in the room right after I'd swung at the first one--right before I would have gone back to defensive stance.
AVAIA
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 01:36 PM CDT
>I was stance dancing. A second troll came in the room right after I'd swung at the first one--right before I would have gone back to defensive stance.
Well, then that was just bad luck. Things like that will happen and there is, generally, jack-all you can do about it. At least in the short term. If things get swarmy in an area of critters that can knock your block off like that, you might consider advancing in a rear-ward direction and hunting somewhere else.
Long term? You may gain access to mitigating factors. What profession are you? Most will have one sort of maybe-get-out-of-jail free card or another, through training. Expensive padded armor will lessen those hits somewhat. Things like that.
Avaia, player of
Well, then that was just bad luck. Things like that will happen and there is, generally, jack-all you can do about it. At least in the short term. If things get swarmy in an area of critters that can knock your block off like that, you might consider advancing in a rear-ward direction and hunting somewhere else.
Long term? You may gain access to mitigating factors. What profession are you? Most will have one sort of maybe-get-out-of-jail free card or another, through training. Expensive padded armor will lessen those hits somewhat. Things like that.
Avaia, player of
GEHAYI
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 01:41 PM CDT
>Disarm them? Battle-axe can cause a lot of damage; hand, not so much. Even if they claw or pound at you--it's a troll, after all--it probably does less than a two-hander.
How do you do that?
>But yeah, the basic position is, "let them act, THEN you beat the snot out of them."
As stated above, I WAS stance dancing and was doing fine until a second troll entered the room and swung at me about a second before I could go back into defensive.
>Wear heavier (better crit divisor) Armor Group?
I just upgraded my armor to scalemail. As far as I can tell, my only other options are chain and plate--both of which would probably kill me with slowed round times. (And I've rarely seen rogues in plate.)
>Pad your (suit of) armor?
Don't know anything about padding, sorry. (Yes, there's an article about it--https://gswiki.play.net/Padding--but it's all math. I don't understand the math, so the article doesn't tell me much.) About all I can gather is that padding is a rare add-on that helps somehow with defenses and that you need a merchant to get it.
>Lower their AS/raise your DS even more? (Fog, Dark, Weapon Deflection, Sounds.)
I don't have any of those spells.
>Hunt with a partner who can wave oak wands? (Or natively cast Untrammel [for Web] or Stun Relief [for stuns] or Shout Rally [to break conditions on your whole group].)
Maybe. I'd have to find someone who could do that and whose schedule matches mine.
How do you do that?
>But yeah, the basic position is, "let them act, THEN you beat the snot out of them."
As stated above, I WAS stance dancing and was doing fine until a second troll entered the room and swung at me about a second before I could go back into defensive.
>Wear heavier (better crit divisor) Armor Group?
I just upgraded my armor to scalemail. As far as I can tell, my only other options are chain and plate--both of which would probably kill me with slowed round times. (And I've rarely seen rogues in plate.)
>Pad your (suit of) armor?
Don't know anything about padding, sorry. (Yes, there's an article about it--https://gswiki.play.net/Padding--but it's all math. I don't understand the math, so the article doesn't tell me much.) About all I can gather is that padding is a rare add-on that helps somehow with defenses and that you need a merchant to get it.
>Lower their AS/raise your DS even more? (Fog, Dark, Weapon Deflection, Sounds.)
I don't have any of those spells.
>Hunt with a partner who can wave oak wands? (Or natively cast Untrammel [for Web] or Stun Relief [for stuns] or Shout Rally [to break conditions on your whole group].)
Maybe. I'd have to find someone who could do that and whose schedule matches mine.
RATHBONER
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 01:47 PM CDT
stun move is the rogues get out of jail free.
RATHBONER
KRAKII
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 02:01 PM CDT
Group-hunting is, hands down, THE best way to get safer. Think about it: if you're solo, you have a 100% chance of being the one they choose to act against...
...whereas hunting with just one other person in your group, you're down to a 50/50 shot.
(I note for the record that F2P would let you guarantee a hunting buddy, at absolutely no additional cost to you. <cough> Just saying.)
.
Probably the easiest way to pad armor is by being Premium. Save up your points for months, and then slap some padding onto your armor.
I note for the record that this will probably take a while.
Next best for padding is finding some from somebody us.
I provide for your edification: https://ps.lichproject.org/items?s=pad&f=O_________F_B
(Limited to rigid leather Armor Group containing the word 'pad', though the first listing that pops appears to be in the NAME of the item rather than the properties. First thing padded against crits is 450k; very heavy padding at 750k; [temporary!] masterful padding at 1M.)
.
For concern about just head-shots: https://ps.lichproject.org/items?s=pad&f=A_________P_F_B
.
See also:
...whereas hunting with just one other person in your group, you're down to a 50/50 shot.
(I note for the record that F2P would let you guarantee a hunting buddy, at absolutely no additional cost to you. <cough> Just saying.)
.
Probably the easiest way to pad armor is by being Premium. Save up your points for months, and then slap some padding onto your armor.
I note for the record that this will probably take a while.
Next best for padding is finding some from somebody us.
I provide for your edification: https://ps.lichproject.org/items?s=pad&f=O_________F_B
(Limited to rigid leather Armor Group containing the word 'pad', though the first listing that pops appears to be in the NAME of the item rather than the properties. First thing padded against crits is 450k; very heavy padding at 750k; [temporary!] masterful padding at 1M.)
.
For concern about just head-shots: https://ps.lichproject.org/items?s=pad&f=A_________P_F_B
.
See also:
| https://gswiki.play.net/Disarm_Weapon | to remove their weapon from their hand |
| https://gswiki.play.net/AMBUSH_(verb) | to remove their hand |
| https://gswiki.play.net/Vibration_Chant_(1002) | to deny [potentially explode] their weapon [and possibly a body part] |
MENOS
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 04:41 PM CDT
Be a paladin.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
And the stream that falls from the hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took.
GEHAYI
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 08:41 PM CDT
>stun move is the rogues get out of jail free.
What's "stun move"? And how do you do it?
What's "stun move"? And how do you do it?
OM1E5GA
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/17/2018 11:00 PM CDT
<Despite all the spells and all the training, I still got stunned for a ridiculously long time--far longer than any stun for any critter I've ever seen--and could not save myself.>
Any crit that results in a rank 3 head wound is going to result in a 7 or 8 round stun or death.
Any spells you can get as a rogue (either self cast or otherwise) will help prevent you from being hit in the first place, but once you are successfully hit they'll do precisely bupkis to reduce the damage or status effects you get. Training can help in the form of Redux (more info on that here: https://gswiki.play.net/Redux ), and might have actually reduced the crit you received from one that would have killed you outright to one that stunned you for 8 rounds (not entirely sure which is preferable in this instance).
<How do you stop this? I really, REALLY hate the extended stuns. And nothing I do seems to prevent them.>
Well, if you're a rogue like your posts imply, you should be taking advantage of the shadows by your late 20's and def by level 30. Make sure you have 2x-3x in S&H, ambush from hiding, and get CMAN VANISH so you can get back into the shadows if something wanders in while you're in RT. If you're looking to stand in the open and hack at things, you're in the wrong profession... that's a warrior's specialty, rogues are designed for sneakiness and timing.
<I just upgraded my armor to scalemail. As far as I can tell, my only other options are chain and plate--both of which would probably kill me with slowed round times. (And I've rarely seen rogues in plate.)>
At your level, I would actually stick to brig. The heavier the armor you're in, the harder it is to get into and stay in hiding. This is why few rogues ever get into plate and most don't go up to scale until closer to cap, if at all.
<and was doing fine until a second troll entered the room and swung at me about a second before I could go back into defensive.>
Unfortunately, this will happen even to the best of us from time to time. However, as I mentioned above, CMAN VANISH can help you get into hiding while you're in RT.... if it can't find you, it can't swing at you in the first place.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Any crit that results in a rank 3 head wound is going to result in a 7 or 8 round stun or death.
Any spells you can get as a rogue (either self cast or otherwise) will help prevent you from being hit in the first place, but once you are successfully hit they'll do precisely bupkis to reduce the damage or status effects you get. Training can help in the form of Redux (more info on that here: https://gswiki.play.net/Redux ), and might have actually reduced the crit you received from one that would have killed you outright to one that stunned you for 8 rounds (not entirely sure which is preferable in this instance).
<How do you stop this? I really, REALLY hate the extended stuns. And nothing I do seems to prevent them.>
Well, if you're a rogue like your posts imply, you should be taking advantage of the shadows by your late 20's and def by level 30. Make sure you have 2x-3x in S&H, ambush from hiding, and get CMAN VANISH so you can get back into the shadows if something wanders in while you're in RT. If you're looking to stand in the open and hack at things, you're in the wrong profession... that's a warrior's specialty, rogues are designed for sneakiness and timing.
<I just upgraded my armor to scalemail. As far as I can tell, my only other options are chain and plate--both of which would probably kill me with slowed round times. (And I've rarely seen rogues in plate.)>
At your level, I would actually stick to brig. The heavier the armor you're in, the harder it is to get into and stay in hiding. This is why few rogues ever get into plate and most don't go up to scale until closer to cap, if at all.
<and was doing fine until a second troll entered the room and swung at me about a second before I could go back into defensive.>
Unfortunately, this will happen even to the best of us from time to time. However, as I mentioned above, CMAN VANISH can help you get into hiding while you're in RT.... if it can't find you, it can't swing at you in the first place.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
RATHBONER
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/18/2018 05:47 AM CDT
>What's "stun move"? And how do you do it?
Guild skill. https://gswiki.play.net/Stun_Maneuvers
You can also spend CMan points on it, but they are almost certainly better spent on getting vanish. A disadvantage of the guild skill is that you have to master it to get the RT for the easier stun maneuvers down to useful levels, so unless you are intending to master it asap there's not a lot of point in starting training it.
Guild skill. https://gswiki.play.net/Stun_Maneuvers
You can also spend CMan points on it, but they are almost certainly better spent on getting vanish. A disadvantage of the guild skill is that you have to master it to get the RT for the easier stun maneuvers down to useful levels, so unless you are intending to master it asap there's not a lot of point in starting training it.
ROLFARD
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/18/2018 07:15 AM CDT
Armor doesn't impact hiding, and most rogues end up in full plate if not hauberk or MBP.
RATHBONER
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/18/2018 08:49 AM CDT
Armor does impact hiding. Read up on vanish and armor skills.
AVAIA
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/18/2018 09:51 AM CDT
For what it's worth, Gehayi, I feel your pain.
Hunting the Confluence last night I walk into a room with an Air Elemental; In the 2 seconds it takes me to get past the RT that is sometimes incurred simply by moving room-to-room, it hits me with a Call Wind which puts me on the ground, in Stance Offensive, in 16 seconds RT. Before the roundtime is even up I am hit with multiple air blasts and killed. In the Confluence so the chance of rescue is minimal, which means a decay and the penalties associated with it.
... the words I said at the screen in those 10 minutes waiting for the decay are not suitable for a public forum.
Avaia, player of
Hunting the Confluence last night I walk into a room with an Air Elemental; In the 2 seconds it takes me to get past the RT that is sometimes incurred simply by moving room-to-room, it hits me with a Call Wind which puts me on the ground, in Stance Offensive, in 16 seconds RT. Before the roundtime is even up I am hit with multiple air blasts and killed. In the Confluence so the chance of rescue is minimal, which means a decay and the penalties associated with it.
... the words I said at the screen in those 10 minutes waiting for the decay are not suitable for a public forum.
Avaia, player of
VERSIN
Re: How do you fight getting stunned for multiple rounds?
05/19/2018 08:24 AM CDT
You have two choices, go the stealth route and stay in brig or fight in the open and go for the heaviest armor you can (MBP being a common goal).
