I'm going to make it my personal mission to figure out how to pwn everything in this game and it starts with the most amazing thing 2 players have ever done. I'm going to take away the GM's fun when i swat down their swarms of enemies with me and my hunting party all with a setup and one single cast. Get Out The Nerf Bat folks because School is now in session.
Special shout out to my hunting partner and co instructor. Not sure if he likes to brag or not so for this lesson i will name him Mr. Sinister. He may not like the recognition so his name was changed for this post.
Once upon a time in the foot hills, lolz were had.
Foothills]
The path crosses a leveled out area on the side of the hill and splits off in two directions as it skirts a formidable rise of speckled grey granite. Runoff from many seasons of rain has formed a small gully down the middle of the fork in the path, a jagged indentation that snakes across the dusty surface, then disappears into a clump of bushes growing along the edge of the trail. You also see an Agresh troll chieftain.
Also here: Mr. Sinister
Obvious paths: northeast, southeast
J>
Mr. Sinister utters a light chant and raises his hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to his aid...
Mr. Sinister gestures at an Agresh troll chieftain.
Cloudy wisps swirl about an Agresh troll chieftain.
CS: +364 - TD: +50 + CvA: -11 + d100: +60 == +363
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about his body!
J>
A plains ogre just arrived.
J>
An Agresh troll chieftain struggles fruitlessly in the webbing.
J>
A black leopard scampers in!
J>
Mr. Sinister utters a light chant and raises his hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to his aid...
Mr. Sinister gestures at a plains ogre.
Cloudy wisps swirl about a plains ogre.
CS: +364 - TD: +26 + CvA: +25 + d100: +10 == +373
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about its body!
J>
An Agresh troll chieftain struggles fruitlessly in the webbing.
J>
Mr. Sinister utters a light chant and raises his hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to his aid...
Mr. Sinister gestures at a black leopard.
Cloudy wisps swirl about a black leopard.
CS: +364 - TD: +17 + CvA: +25 + d100: +67 == +439
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about his body!
J>
A black leopard struggles fruitlessly in the webbing entangling him.
J>
An Agresh troll chieftain struggles fruitlessly in the webbing.
J>prepare 720
J>
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
J>
A plains ogre struggles against the webs holding it.
J>cast
You gesture.
You cast into the air above you and the sky rips open into a void! The fissure begins to feed on the air around you!
A black leopard is knocked over by the wind!
A black leopard is sucked into the void!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a black leopard to explode!
Billions and billions of tiny leopard bits shower everything.
Quite severely dead.
A plains ogre is knocked over by the wind!
A plains ogre is sucked into the void!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a plains ogre to explode!
Billions and billions of tiny ogre bits shower everything.
Quite severely dead.
[You have earned 30 recognition points.]
An Agresh troll chieftain is knocked over by the wind!
An Agresh troll chieftain is sucked into the void!
Rather abrupt decompression causes an Agresh troll chieftain to explode!
Billions and billions of tiny chieftain bits shower everything.
Quite severely dead.
[You have earned 45 recognition points.]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
J>say WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You say, "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."
J>
An Agresh troll chieftain just arrived!
J>
Mr. Sinister smiles.
J>
Mr. Sinister utters a light chant and raises his hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to his aid...
Mr. Sinister gestures at an Agresh troll chieftain.
Cloudy wisps swirl about an Agresh troll chieftain.
CS: +364 - TD: +50 + CvA: -11 + d100: +72 == +375
Warding failed!
The wisps solidify into thick strands of webbing that tighten about her body!
J>
The black void continues to suck the air out of the area!
Air is sucked away from an Agresh troll chieftain!
Roaring winds whip around an Agresh troll chieftain.
+15 Hits.
J>
SOLARR8
ISMANO
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 01:51 AM CST
It's hilariously appropriate that you would be hunting... a troll...
-farmer
-farmer
THROGG
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 02:26 PM CST
No nerf needed; this is as intended. Sorcerers and wizards are 2 classes that can wipe out a room with a couple of shots. In fact, most spell casting types have some sort of AOE spells; Song of Disruption, cone of lightning, e-wave, sympathy, divine whatsis (319), Nature's Fury all come to mind.
.
I can do the same thing with my sorceress; can clear out a room with any number of foes, unaided, with a total of 2 spell casts. OK, with one proviso; the creatures need to be stunnable. I will leave it as an exercise for you to figure out which two spells :)
.
I can do the same thing with my sorceress; can clear out a room with any number of foes, unaided, with a total of 2 spell casts. OK, with one proviso; the creatures need to be stunnable. I will leave it as an exercise for you to figure out which two spells :)
DELCIAN
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 02:53 PM CST
Also helps when you have someone 50 trains higher webbing creatures.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
~D
AIM: Delcian
"Only after disaster can we be resurrected." - TD
Seven stars in your cloak shine brightly, forming The Gryphon in the twinkling night sky.
THROGG
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 03:10 PM CST
>>Also helps when you have someone 50 trains higher webbing creatures.<<
Heeeh! It helps to have someone 50 trains higher doing anything; they could make faces and scare them to death.
My 1-2 combo works well vs like level critters :)
Heeeh! It helps to have someone 50 trains higher doing anything; they could make faces and scare them to death.
My 1-2 combo works well vs like level critters :)
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 06:32 PM CST
I wasn't actually calling for the nerf bat. I was just being cynical. I do have to say that instant kills (not the same as a one hit kill hit point drain) are pretty much the antithesis of nearly every mmo that exists. Rolemaster is what makes this so much fun. If Heroes Journey winds up using the rolemaster ruleset and has stuff like this in it then that game will kill alot of mmo's and simutronics will finally enter the top tier of MMO gaming. You can't have anything this cool in a D and D ruleset. The amount of power from a spell combination like this is enough to make me cry that's how beautiful it is.
They're going to have to have a better way of how GM's work though because as it stands now a GM can mod tool any part of this game they have jurisdiction over and then retire and then another GM can come in right after and change everything again to something else. There appears to be no real standards to adhere to. I don't play a warrior but there was a time that warriors could actually sacrifice some of their more complicated skills that cost alot of mental points and put those points in the spell circles. When the GM that came into that decided to quick fix the whole thing by lowering mental costs for other skills and putting an artificial barrior (by way of prohibitive skill cost)on spell learning in my opinion that killed one of the absolute coolest and most unique aspects of this game and the genre. Now i'm also aware that at the time there didn't seem to be much resistance for this change but at the same time i saw a piece of this games unique flavor die when this change was made. If you make a skill cost prohibitive in my opinion it's really no different then a class based system where you just plain can't learn certain things to begin with and that to me turns this game into being just like any other mmo.
I worry that some poor player is going to walk into one of these voids and get sucked in but at the same time asking me not to use the power is like asking a warrior trained in edged to put down his weapon. The efficiency of damage to mana ratio gets better the more people that are in the room at once. That principal is one of the key selling points of my moc leanings in training. I still think C v C won't be impacted if immunity was granted from AoE spells. If it's an open cast you're not after a specific person generally and even if you are i don't think the ability is worth the cost of innocent bystanders.
It's funny i had a conversation with GM Wyrom once who specificly told me this game was not intended for P v P which in my opinion pretty much supports my stance on the issue.
The best i can do right now if somoene gets caught in the crossfire is tell them i'm sorry, give them some money and take them out to power level them. The focused void is kind of weaksauce in my opinion i could do better with a double focused strom cast and use the same amount of manna and just because of the crit potential it seems like a better option. I'll be looking at these techniques more extensivly however to draw a more difinitive conclusion.
They're going to have to have a better way of how GM's work though because as it stands now a GM can mod tool any part of this game they have jurisdiction over and then retire and then another GM can come in right after and change everything again to something else. There appears to be no real standards to adhere to. I don't play a warrior but there was a time that warriors could actually sacrifice some of their more complicated skills that cost alot of mental points and put those points in the spell circles. When the GM that came into that decided to quick fix the whole thing by lowering mental costs for other skills and putting an artificial barrior (by way of prohibitive skill cost)on spell learning in my opinion that killed one of the absolute coolest and most unique aspects of this game and the genre. Now i'm also aware that at the time there didn't seem to be much resistance for this change but at the same time i saw a piece of this games unique flavor die when this change was made. If you make a skill cost prohibitive in my opinion it's really no different then a class based system where you just plain can't learn certain things to begin with and that to me turns this game into being just like any other mmo.
I worry that some poor player is going to walk into one of these voids and get sucked in but at the same time asking me not to use the power is like asking a warrior trained in edged to put down his weapon. The efficiency of damage to mana ratio gets better the more people that are in the room at once. That principal is one of the key selling points of my moc leanings in training. I still think C v C won't be impacted if immunity was granted from AoE spells. If it's an open cast you're not after a specific person generally and even if you are i don't think the ability is worth the cost of innocent bystanders.
It's funny i had a conversation with GM Wyrom once who specificly told me this game was not intended for P v P which in my opinion pretty much supports my stance on the issue.
The best i can do right now if somoene gets caught in the crossfire is tell them i'm sorry, give them some money and take them out to power level them. The focused void is kind of weaksauce in my opinion i could do better with a double focused strom cast and use the same amount of manna and just because of the crit potential it seems like a better option. I'll be looking at these techniques more extensivly however to draw a more difinitive conclusion.
THROGG
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 06:45 PM CST
>>I worry that some poor player is going to walk into one of these voids and get sucked in<<
Meh; there are a number of AOE spells that can have unfortunate effects on passers by. Open voids, e-wave, major e-wave, 316 (I can never remember the name of the cleric spells; it's always Divine this or Holy that) all come to mind. Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning.
As for open voids, you can always shut them once the damage has been done to the immediate room of critters. Umm, my sorceress gal has converted the to worship of V'Tull; she even has a holy (unholy?) symbol. Collateral casualties are unlikely to bother her. Bleeding heart liberal sorcerers who DO care can close them with dispel.
Meh; there are a number of AOE spells that can have unfortunate effects on passers by. Open voids, e-wave, major e-wave, 316 (I can never remember the name of the cleric spells; it's always Divine this or Holy that) all come to mind. Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning.
As for open voids, you can always shut them once the damage has been done to the immediate room of critters. Umm, my sorceress gal has converted the to worship of V'Tull; she even has a holy (unholy?) symbol. Collateral casualties are unlikely to bother her. Bleeding heart liberal sorcerers who DO care can close them with dispel.
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 07:26 PM CST
My only thought is what's the point. If there is something in a game mechanic wise that is pointless or silly given the overwhelming reasons to remove it vs the few plausable reasons to keep it then in my opinion to leave it in there either shows A: Lazy programmer Or B:I don't want to change it because it's my artistic vision i.e. i have my head up my rear.
Either way neither one of those are excusable reasons in my opinion.
It's the whole laissez faire attitude of let the gm have the mod tools and the gm does what the gm wants regardless of weather or not the idea is actually good or viable given the evolution of the game weighed againsted the games founding principals (or founding flavor). Thats the reason why most games have a lead designer. That way if the lead designer is messing up there's only one person that needs to be held accountable and it's not an absolute chaotic situation where as every gm that has an egotistical necessity to "leave their mark" winds up killing the core principals of the game and it becomes nothing more than a mutated grotesque image of its former self
Reminds me alot of when the joker meets Vicky Vale at the place with all the paintings and the joker adds his "flavor" to them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tgxIWgJ_DE
Keep in mind i am using this post as an example for the purpose of warning againsted bad potential and i am not targeting any GM past or present.
Should we force players to have to eat food because in real life we need to eat or we die? The whole argument of "Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning." is a bogus argument.
Either way neither one of those are excusable reasons in my opinion.
It's the whole laissez faire attitude of let the gm have the mod tools and the gm does what the gm wants regardless of weather or not the idea is actually good or viable given the evolution of the game weighed againsted the games founding principals (or founding flavor). Thats the reason why most games have a lead designer. That way if the lead designer is messing up there's only one person that needs to be held accountable and it's not an absolute chaotic situation where as every gm that has an egotistical necessity to "leave their mark" winds up killing the core principals of the game and it becomes nothing more than a mutated grotesque image of its former self
Reminds me alot of when the joker meets Vicky Vale at the place with all the paintings and the joker adds his "flavor" to them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tgxIWgJ_DE
Keep in mind i am using this post as an example for the purpose of warning againsted bad potential and i am not targeting any GM past or present.
Should we force players to have to eat food because in real life we need to eat or we die? The whole argument of "Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning." is a bogus argument.
GS4-MARSTREFORN
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 08:50 PM CST
Sometimes there are things in a game that are intended to be situational. Not necessarily designed for everyday use.
Just because you can do something does not mean you should go ahead an do it whenever you feel like it.
Imagine what could possibly happen if GMs were able to run rampant and kill players constantly in invasions whenever we feel like it, in whatever town we want, with whatever creatures we felt like using. There are rules and guidelines in place for many things.
GM Marstreforn
(With great power comes great responsibility.)
Just because you can do something does not mean you should go ahead an do it whenever you feel like it.
Imagine what could possibly happen if GMs were able to run rampant and kill players constantly in invasions whenever we feel like it, in whatever town we want, with whatever creatures we felt like using. There are rules and guidelines in place for many things.
GM Marstreforn
(With great power comes great responsibility.)
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 09:05 PM CST
I appreciate this general rule of thumb response however i am failing in my mind to make a relevant connection to the specific points i have addressed. Sometimes i'm not the quickest at making the connection. This is one of those times.
GS4-MARSTREFORN
Re: The dream team combination
12/22/2011 09:32 PM CST
>>I worry that some poor player is going to walk into one of these voids and get sucked in but at the same time asking me not to use the power is like asking a warrior trained in edged to put down his weapon.
>>Meh; there are a number of AOE spells that can have unfortunate effects on passers by. Open voids, e-wave, major e-wave, 316 (I can never remember the name of the cleric spells; it's always Divine this or Holy that) all come to mind. Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning.
>>Or B:I don't want to change it because it's my artistic vision i.e. i have my head up my rear.
My response was an "in general" reply to the conversation in the thread and that it really isn't an A or B, as you may believe it is.
GM Marstreforn
>>Meh; there are a number of AOE spells that can have unfortunate effects on passers by. Open voids, e-wave, major e-wave, 316 (I can never remember the name of the cleric spells; it's always Divine this or Holy that) all come to mind. Hey, Elanthia is a dangerous place; you take risks by leaving your home in the morning.
>>Or B:I don't want to change it because it's my artistic vision i.e. i have my head up my rear.
My response was an "in general" reply to the conversation in the thread and that it really isn't an A or B, as you may believe it is.
GM Marstreforn
WINTERMYST
Re: The dream team combination
12/23/2011 12:18 AM CST
It never ceases to amaze me when one person comes in and wants to rewrite a game that has been going strong for over 20 years. Rather then buck the system why not try and join it, you might actually enjoy it.
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
THROGG
Re: The dream team combination
12/23/2011 12:30 PM CST
>>Imagine what could possibly happen if GMs were able to run rampant and kill players constantly in invasions whenever we feel like it, in whatever town we want, with whatever creatures we felt like using. <<
::stares in disbelief::
Gee, it sure LOOKS like that's what the GMs are doing.
::stares in disbelief::
Gee, it sure LOOKS like that's what the GMs are doing.
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/23/2011 01:52 PM CST
It reminds me of when i died next to a lady in the landing by a bone golem with about 636 attack power. Now we all know that you've got to be really close in defensive power to have any chance because a high roll will stun you which means you're dead anyway when the creature goes for the follow up. They do it the same way i do it. I know the strategy.
So anyhow i was talking to this lady and i said to her how in the world do you combat that?
Her answer: A capped warrior stacked with buffs.
I'm thinking to myself oh great this game is already morphing into every other mmo where the only class that can take a hit from a raid mob without being one rounded is a warrior stacked with buffs. One of these GM's is infected with the everquest virus. We need to find out who it is and stop them before they ruin everything! Oh if only i cold go back to pre Luclin or even pre Planes of Power for that matter.
(Yes i know about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EQEmu ) It's just not the same.
So anyhow i was talking to this lady and i said to her how in the world do you combat that?
Her answer: A capped warrior stacked with buffs.
I'm thinking to myself oh great this game is already morphing into every other mmo where the only class that can take a hit from a raid mob without being one rounded is a warrior stacked with buffs. One of these GM's is infected with the everquest virus. We need to find out who it is and stop them before they ruin everything! Oh if only i cold go back to pre Luclin or even pre Planes of Power for that matter.
(Yes i know about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EQEmu ) It's just not the same.
WINTERMYST
Re: The dream team combination
12/23/2011 03:55 PM CST
>::stares in disbelief::<
Apparently you must be in different invasions then the majority, if you are capped or close to cap dying an in invasion is rare....unless of course you have a hybrid or mutant build, but then if that's what you want, that's not the GM's killing you that is mechanics overwhelming your training.
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
Apparently you must be in different invasions then the majority, if you are capped or close to cap dying an in invasion is rare....unless of course you have a hybrid or mutant build, but then if that's what you want, that's not the GM's killing you that is mechanics overwhelming your training.
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/24/2011 12:51 AM CST
That's her answer not mine. No matter what build i used it wouldn't matter because i'm not a warrior as per her statement. Now here's a situation with conflicting information so i guess i'll have to cap to find out for sure unless they want to give me the trainer so that i can blow up my points for research purposes.
ARCHIGEEK
Re: The dream team combination
12/24/2011 01:45 PM CST
You think Everquest invented the warrior with buffs? Where do you think those MMO's got their ideas? Since the advent of redux, the GS warrior has been a tank vs physical attacks, and a liability vs warding spells.
SOLARR8
Re: The dream team combination
12/24/2011 02:52 PM CST
We can go back even farther but i wasn't really trying to teach history on the message boards.
I'm more so trying to make note of the very boring cookie cutter situation where evey class is only good for one thing and there's no real variety with class roles and abilities. In the golden age of eq it was perfectly fine to have a monk or a pally or a shadowknight or even a rogue sub in for a warrior when there was none around. You'd make up for it with an extra cleric or an extra de buff class or something like that.
It wasn't exactly necessary to fight over the few warriors that were available in game or have people make warriors as alts just to get things done.
I dunno about you but i get bored playing mmo's where as the warrior just stands in front of a mob and swings and gets beat up while the cleric heals and everybody else is just there for debuffs and dps and that's it.
As a personal game design philosophy i like that idea that 1 particular class isn't absolutly necessary because if that class isn't available then the guild is screwed and i always liked the idea that all eggs were not in one single basket and guilds and groups had options.
Plus when the game becomes that of needing a certain class then you have a situation where no one wants to group with you unless you are that certain class. That to me kills the fun of an mmo. IMO when you're forced to play a certain class because the one you want to play isn't needed to me the game becomes more like a job at that point.
I don't ever want that kind of situation to happen with GS4.
I'm more so trying to make note of the very boring cookie cutter situation where evey class is only good for one thing and there's no real variety with class roles and abilities. In the golden age of eq it was perfectly fine to have a monk or a pally or a shadowknight or even a rogue sub in for a warrior when there was none around. You'd make up for it with an extra cleric or an extra de buff class or something like that.
It wasn't exactly necessary to fight over the few warriors that were available in game or have people make warriors as alts just to get things done.
I dunno about you but i get bored playing mmo's where as the warrior just stands in front of a mob and swings and gets beat up while the cleric heals and everybody else is just there for debuffs and dps and that's it.
As a personal game design philosophy i like that idea that 1 particular class isn't absolutly necessary because if that class isn't available then the guild is screwed and i always liked the idea that all eggs were not in one single basket and guilds and groups had options.
Plus when the game becomes that of needing a certain class then you have a situation where no one wants to group with you unless you are that certain class. That to me kills the fun of an mmo. IMO when you're forced to play a certain class because the one you want to play isn't needed to me the game becomes more like a job at that point.
I don't ever want that kind of situation to happen with GS4.
THROGG
Re: The dream team combination
12/26/2011 06:22 PM CST
>>you must be in different invasions then the majority, if you are capped or close to cap dying an in invasion is rare....<<
That's an odd statement. Let us distinguish between the early phases of the classical invasion pattern and the end stages. The usual pattern is for the early attacking critters to be fairly low level; this gives the lower level players a chance to participate. As time goes on, the critters get harder. Towards the end, they get seriously difficult. Yes, during the early phases you are pretty much immune if you are up there in levels, but that is not true towards the end. Post cap, I have gotten whacked several times during invasions, by critters whom I estimate to be level 105-110 (based on their TD, AS etc).
That's an odd statement. Let us distinguish between the early phases of the classical invasion pattern and the end stages. The usual pattern is for the early attacking critters to be fairly low level; this gives the lower level players a chance to participate. As time goes on, the critters get harder. Towards the end, they get seriously difficult. Yes, during the early phases you are pretty much immune if you are up there in levels, but that is not true towards the end. Post cap, I have gotten whacked several times during invasions, by critters whom I estimate to be level 105-110 (based on their TD, AS etc).
WINTERMYST
Re: The dream team combination
12/27/2011 12:25 PM CST
> Post cap, I have gotten whacked several times during invasions, by critters whom I estimate to be level 105-110<
Ah yes I forget you did say you under hunt, however the statement is not odd, my statement is based on multiple invasions I have participated in including the one in Solhaven where the critters were consistently over 105. Not all of us can be trained the way you are. :)
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
Ah yes I forget you did say you under hunt, however the statement is not odd, my statement is based on multiple invasions I have participated in including the one in Solhaven where the critters were consistently over 105. Not all of us can be trained the way you are. :)
~Shi'larra
One bold fella breaks from the chain and climbs up on Brinret's chest, grabbing a hold of the tufts of hair on both sides of his head and holding him still! A fat, wet kiss is placed before the monkey disappears
ZENNSUNNI
Re: The dream team combination
04/02/2013 09:59 AM CDT
Pandamonium (it was spelled weird, forget how) used to show up to my assists as a troll in a hockey uniform and kill everything around me with a hockey stick that could be wielded one or two handed (this is years before the GRIP verb). Sometimes it's amusing when GMs do whatever they want =P. Who knows, maybe his hockey stick was where the code for GRIP came from!
Player of Kilshaar
Player of Kilshaar
