I'm trying to connect some dots between a few bits of human lore and am hoping someone out there might be able to help (maybe this post will play the "Summon Scribes" (or other NIR) card). I can't tell whether I'm getting something right here or am just making connections where there aren't any!

If anyone cares to read the lore (though I'll try to summarize relevant parts below), here are the three documents about which I'm curious. I'll refer to them by number, in case that makes it easier for anyone to reference them in a reply:

1. "Of Krolvins and Reivers" -- http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/GemStone%20IV/Races/Half-Krolvin/thread/796035

2. "An Unfinished Smuggler's History of River's Rest" -- http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/An_Unfinished_Smuggler%27s_History_of_River%27s_Rest

3. "An Incomplete History of River's Rest" (yes, this is a different document than the one above) -- http://www.play.net/gs4/info/tomes/rivers_rest/home.asp

First Question:

Document #1 describes the reivers as a people from a great kingdom that existed "before the Kannalan raised their banner," during a time when "some men were free, and the others wore the chains of elven making." It also says that most (but not all) of the reivers eventually left this kingdom, "leaving the land of Elanith . . . out of intent to stop a golden evil."

Document #2 talks about an unnamed human kingdom that is now lost, but that "prospered in a time often given as one which belonged to the Empire of the Elves . . . in an age when they enslaved humans." So, it was also a kingdom where men were free from elven rule, though at a time when others were enslaved to them. This kingdom had some great evil thing imprisoned beneath it, and the only feature of this evil thing mentioned in the document is that it had yellow eyes. It eventually was released, at which point most (but not all) of the people there left in search of it, "set off for unknown shores and disappeared." If the evil being with yellow eyes is the "golden evil" from document #1, then that's another striking similarity.

Both kingdoms seem to have existed before the Kannalan Empire, at the time of the Elven Empire. Most (but not all) of their inhabitants seem to have left the land and disappeared, going in search of a golden (or yellow) evil. So, is the same kingdom being described in both documents #1 and #2? Anyone know, or have opinions and/or other info to offer about this?

Second Question:

Document #3 talks about a "kingdom of Elanith" that existed before the Kannalan Empire (though it was eventually incorporated into it); it seems to have included River's Rest and Maelstrom Bay. This kingdom became arrogant and eventually collapsed. It was also troubled by krolvin attacks.

The kingdom described in Document #1 was described as being from the "land of Elanith," and existing "before the Kannalan raised their banner." It also was troubled by krolvin attacks. The kingdom described in Document #2 seems to have been located around Maelstrom Bay, and to have eventually become arrogant and collapsed. And, as I mentioned above, the kingdom in #1 and #2 seems to be the same... So, is the same kingdom being described in all of these documents?

Thanks in advance, fellow lore nerds, for any help or additional info. :)

<<You're one of the first to at least publicly connect the dots between the K&R doc and the Smuggler's History doc. Congrats! It makes an old GM's heart burn bright to see someone make the connection. For bonus points, there's an in-game object that is related, too!

That's great to hear! I feel like I've cracked a code! And thanks for the answer, Scribes (I'm glad my "Summon Scribes" card worked!).

I must find this in-game object. Is it the sort of thing that someone might have stored in their locker somewhere, or it out there in the (game) world?

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<<In answer to question 2, the Kingdom of Elanith referenced in Doc 3 is one that arose after the unnamed Kingdom in Docs 1 and 2. It's a bit confusing, but Elanith is the name of the continent, but was also used as the name of the kingdom became incorporated into the Kannalan Empire. So generally, if you see Elanith, not preceded by Kingdom of, then it's a general reference to the continent. If you're looking for a general scale of time, the Kingdom rose and fell a number of centuries before the Kingdom of Elanith.

That helps a lot. Thanks.

Here's a follow-up question that I wanted to ask, but didn't ask in my first post because I feared that it was already pretty complicated:

Doc #2 (the Smuggler's History doc) tells the story of the Huntress in association with the kingdom mentioned therein. Now, since the kingdom mentioned therein is the same kingdom mentioned in Doc #1 (the Reivers doc), this indicates a possible connection between the Huntress and the Reivers. Now, about that (yay, more dots to connect!)...

1. The kingdom in the Smuggler's History doc claimed that it existed "by the grace of an Arkati" whose name is now lost, and that it was blessed by that Arkati.
2. This kingdom also exiled the Huntress, and she was presumed dead, though Arachne (called "the Second" in that document) "guessed that the huntress’ return must have been predicated upon an act of a god."
3. Now, THAT idea also corresponds to something mentioned in the official document for the Huntress: she was "granted her immortality by an unknown deity, be it Arkati or other."
4. And it also corresponds to something mentioned in the "Elanthian Gems" document, concerning starstones: "Followers of the Huntress say that starstones owe their existence to the spirit that they serve. According to these clerics, even starlight-exposed starstones were white until the Guardian reincarnated the Huntress in the form of Krrska, a brilliant eight-pointed star."
5. And there's in-game lore about this too. The old gnome astronomer on the Dhu Gillywack: The old gnome says, "Always fearful now of betrayal, the Huntress is watched over by the Guardian. The Guardian, we believe is one of the Arkati."
6. And check this out! The reivers have a church near Wehnimer's Landing with a plaque that speaks of "the Divine we serve to regain what was lost."
7. ...And your Reivers doc says they follow a religion of forgiveness and vengeance.
8. The Huntress is, incidentally, a patroness of vengeance, though she's also forgiving (lots of in-game lore related to her mentions that she forgave Arachne for her initial betrayal of her).

So... What are the chances that the "the Divine we [the reivers] serve to regain what was lost" is the "unnamed Arkati" who blessed their old kingdom and (according to some stories) raised the Huntress from the dead, i.e., is the Guardian? :) I'm not saying they would know this in the game (maybe they've forgotten this), but I'm curious if that's what's going on behind the scenes.

<<It's out there in the game world. Specifically, in the wilds around River's Rest.

Wouldn't happen to be up on a hill, would it?

<<Wouldn't happen to be up on a hill, would it?

Why, yes, yes it would be, Ranger Rester.


GM Scribes

>>Wouldn't happen to be up on a hill, would it?

>Why, yes, yes it would be, Ranger Rester.

Aha, and a couple mentions of yellow eyes, as well. Definitely ended up giving up on saying much about that item (or translating certain messages) when I was preparing for a tour last years.

Yes yes yes, I'm going to finish cleaning and posting the logs...eventually.

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>An officer of the Sorcerer Guild arrives and glances around. "Ah, there you are, Vathon!" he says in a slightly agitated tone. "I have come to formally declare that your membership privileges have been revoked."

I always wondered about the sea elves in this document, because they are apparently still alive. Related to the sea elves destroyed by the Faendryl? Some other kind of group? Open ended plot hooks are always interesting.

We have a sea elf in Plat who plays himself as part of a pirate-like diaspora tracing back House Ashrim itself, I think it's a great area and am glad it jives with your vision.

-E