As I said earlier I almost entirely soloed on my 40 year old Ranger back in the day, so I have no idea how group mechanics work in terms of rewarding experience.
What does each group member actually have to do in order to gain experience from a creature kill? Does any amount of damage, no matter how small, do it? Do spells such as sleep then allow the caster to get experience if another group member then does all the damage to kill the creature? What about a simple command like trip with a pole arm?
I bet the answer is probably pretty complex, but if someone could give me the short version I'd be very appreciative :)
ADAMWOLFPACK3
ADAMWOLFPACK3
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 06:00 AM CST
I lied! I found another question regarding Mobility. I should probably ask in the Ranger forum, but incase anyone here happens to know I didn't think it'd hurt.
I've read the GSIV wiki and official spell page regarding Mobility and it's clear that the Combat Maneuver bonus is capped at 15 for other people the Ranger casts Mobility on, however it's not clear to me if the Dodge Ranks are also capped at 20 for other people. It says that continued training in Ranger Base will increase the Dodge Rank bonus that starts at 20, but it isn't clear if this is only for the Ranger himself or for others as well.
Could honestly make the difference between me suggesting my group of friends runs with Bard/Bard/Paladin or Bard/Ranger/Paladin.
Thanks!
I've read the GSIV wiki and official spell page regarding Mobility and it's clear that the Combat Maneuver bonus is capped at 15 for other people the Ranger casts Mobility on, however it's not clear to me if the Dodge Ranks are also capped at 20 for other people. It says that continued training in Ranger Base will increase the Dodge Rank bonus that starts at 20, but it isn't clear if this is only for the Ranger himself or for others as well.
Could honestly make the difference between me suggesting my group of friends runs with Bard/Bard/Paladin or Bard/Ranger/Paladin.
Thanks!
RATHBONER
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 07:36 AM CST
>I've read the GSIV wiki and official spell page regarding Mobility and it's clear that the Combat Maneuver bonus is capped at 15 for other people the Ranger casts Mobility on, however it's not clear to me if the Dodge Ranks are also capped at 20 for other people. It says that continued training in Ranger Base will increase the Dodge Rank bonus that starts at 20, but it isn't clear if this is only for the Ranger himself or for others as well.
These sort of training boosts are almost always self cast and unless something is specifically noted as providing extra benefit when cast at others, you should assume it won't. (Group spells power up the group more with extra training, but other cast normally stick at the base)
>What does each group member actually have to do in order to gain experience from a creature kill? Does any amount of damage, no matter how small, do it? Do spells such as sleep then allow the caster to get experience if another group member then does all the damage to kill the creature? What about a simple command like trip with a pole arm?
Doing anything gets you some experience. You need to get a decently heavy blow in to get full experience. So if one character always does the set up and the others always kill before the first character gets a chance to followup, that character will be getting experience at 10-25% the rate of the ones that are doing the damage. Its a reason to go with all sword and board to start with, no lance user swinging first and taking all the exp all the time, but if you are used to playing together in other situations, you should be able to manage this. There's plenty of exp to go round provided you aren't stuck with doing nothing but setups and nicks. All semis will make managing this easier too (one of the reasons I reckoned it was a sound idea)
>As I mentioned I only really soloed before on my Ranger and I honestly didn't even know you could hide and still stay part of a group!
10 years ago you couldn't. (stalking put you in the group, but ambushing took you out and being outside the group in a melee was bad news) There are wrinkles, and a hider will drop out of the group from time to time until they get the hang of which commands are unfriendly to the new mechanics (e.g. unhide is bad) but its a lot more manageable now than it used to be.
> I might look into this in a bit once my current Europa Universalis game finishes,
I used to play EU2 MP. Great game.
>One question on the current rules: If I revived my 40 something Ranger from before on another account and used him to cast maxed out mobiles on the party, then just log him off, would that be against the rules? I seem to remember that you couldn't really use characters on other accounts to do much other than hold stuff.
Doing it by bot is the wrong side of policy, but as long as you are actually playing the character while doing the spell up its within the rules. Lots of people do this, though some purists will avoid it. You can't do it FTP without buying some passes.
>They seem interested enough I at least want to show them what it was like before you had maps that follow you around on the screen and macros to, more or less, instantly take you anywhere to anywhere else. I just hope I don't scare them away!
This may appeal to those coming from a tabletop background (it does to me and I don't use them), but if you think they are necessary for you, they are probably even more necessary for those in your group.
These sort of training boosts are almost always self cast and unless something is specifically noted as providing extra benefit when cast at others, you should assume it won't. (Group spells power up the group more with extra training, but other cast normally stick at the base)
>What does each group member actually have to do in order to gain experience from a creature kill? Does any amount of damage, no matter how small, do it? Do spells such as sleep then allow the caster to get experience if another group member then does all the damage to kill the creature? What about a simple command like trip with a pole arm?
Doing anything gets you some experience. You need to get a decently heavy blow in to get full experience. So if one character always does the set up and the others always kill before the first character gets a chance to followup, that character will be getting experience at 10-25% the rate of the ones that are doing the damage. Its a reason to go with all sword and board to start with, no lance user swinging first and taking all the exp all the time, but if you are used to playing together in other situations, you should be able to manage this. There's plenty of exp to go round provided you aren't stuck with doing nothing but setups and nicks. All semis will make managing this easier too (one of the reasons I reckoned it was a sound idea)
>As I mentioned I only really soloed before on my Ranger and I honestly didn't even know you could hide and still stay part of a group!
10 years ago you couldn't. (stalking put you in the group, but ambushing took you out and being outside the group in a melee was bad news) There are wrinkles, and a hider will drop out of the group from time to time until they get the hang of which commands are unfriendly to the new mechanics (e.g. unhide is bad) but its a lot more manageable now than it used to be.
> I might look into this in a bit once my current Europa Universalis game finishes,
I used to play EU2 MP. Great game.
>One question on the current rules: If I revived my 40 something Ranger from before on another account and used him to cast maxed out mobiles on the party, then just log him off, would that be against the rules? I seem to remember that you couldn't really use characters on other accounts to do much other than hold stuff.
Doing it by bot is the wrong side of policy, but as long as you are actually playing the character while doing the spell up its within the rules. Lots of people do this, though some purists will avoid it. You can't do it FTP without buying some passes.
>They seem interested enough I at least want to show them what it was like before you had maps that follow you around on the screen and macros to, more or less, instantly take you anywhere to anywhere else. I just hope I don't scare them away!
This may appeal to those coming from a tabletop background (it does to me and I don't use them), but if you think they are necessary for you, they are probably even more necessary for those in your group.
DOUG
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 07:40 AM CST
Welcome back!
Most professions have a spell or spell like effect that works similar to Mobiles. For that profession, the cap usually is higher than 20, but cast on others it is a flat bonus. I wouldn't let that decide the makeup of your crew, though. You're going to ultimately want those Mobiles on everyone, but you can also get them from any visiting ranger, too.
Just like you must be planning with your wizard spells. ;)
Also, here's what I do when I intro a new member into the crowd.
1) Brief overview (sounds like you got that covered).
2) Brief game visit (quick roll square character - introduce to sprite and catacombs) - usually 2 to 4 hours
3) Professions discussion - new player guides and forums 'So you want to. . . ' for professions
4) Game visit 2 - with new profession quick roll, new profession min max and new profession steady (level 66 max) - usually 30 minutes
5) Tools - the trainer, the maps, the Towns folders, WIki, web goals, in-game resources at TC, Mentors, etc - usually during game play, 6 to 8 hours
6) Mad dash for loot (3 to 5 levels higher than character) - intended to intro death mechanics in an 'exciting' way.
7) Suicide mission (5 to 10 levels higher than character) - intended to intro more advanced hunting techniques - and revisit 6 above
8) Usually at this point, level 5, so start game society discussion (all 4 of them).
9) General interactions in public places to help start personifying character - the whacky world of verbs
10) Review, finalize, and set up selected character / profession - or re-explore some facets if the profession didn't turn out that interesting.
I've tried other methods - but if I can keep it 'organic' feeling, but cover those steps - it usually works out well. Good luck, look forward to seeing the new gang in the lands!
Doug
Most professions have a spell or spell like effect that works similar to Mobiles. For that profession, the cap usually is higher than 20, but cast on others it is a flat bonus. I wouldn't let that decide the makeup of your crew, though. You're going to ultimately want those Mobiles on everyone, but you can also get them from any visiting ranger, too.
Just like you must be planning with your wizard spells. ;)
Also, here's what I do when I intro a new member into the crowd.
1) Brief overview (sounds like you got that covered).
2) Brief game visit (quick roll square character - introduce to sprite and catacombs) - usually 2 to 4 hours
3) Professions discussion - new player guides and forums 'So you want to. . . ' for professions
4) Game visit 2 - with new profession quick roll, new profession min max and new profession steady (level 66 max) - usually 30 minutes
5) Tools - the trainer, the maps, the Towns folders, WIki, web goals, in-game resources at TC, Mentors, etc - usually during game play, 6 to 8 hours
6) Mad dash for loot (3 to 5 levels higher than character) - intended to intro death mechanics in an 'exciting' way.
7) Suicide mission (5 to 10 levels higher than character) - intended to intro more advanced hunting techniques - and revisit 6 above
8) Usually at this point, level 5, so start game society discussion (all 4 of them).
9) General interactions in public places to help start personifying character - the whacky world of verbs
10) Review, finalize, and set up selected character / profession - or re-explore some facets if the profession didn't turn out that interesting.
I've tried other methods - but if I can keep it 'organic' feeling, but cover those steps - it usually works out well. Good luck, look forward to seeing the new gang in the lands!
Doug
RATHBONER
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 07:57 AM CST
>Could honestly make the difference between me suggesting my group of friends runs with Bard/Bard/Paladin or Bard/Ranger/Paladin.
If a couple of you are arguing about who should be the bard, then you should go with what you want to play. Being in sympathy with the character is a lot more important than that minor mechanical edge.
If a couple of you are arguing about who should be the bard, then you should go with what you want to play. Being in sympathy with the character is a lot more important than that minor mechanical edge.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 08:20 AM CST
>> Could honestly make the difference between me suggesting my group of friends runs with Bard/Bard/Paladin or Bard/Ranger/Paladin.
My advice...
Roll a die three times to select each character and you will still have fun. The difference between Bard/Bard or Bard/Ranger will not determine the success or failure of your endeavor. If I recall, your original stated goal was to have fun with your friends so pick characters that are interesting for each of you to play and don't sweat the minor mechanical details.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
My advice...
Roll a die three times to select each character and you will still have fun. The difference between Bard/Bard or Bard/Ranger will not determine the success or failure of your endeavor. If I recall, your original stated goal was to have fun with your friends so pick characters that are interesting for each of you to play and don't sweat the minor mechanical details.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
ADAMWOLFPACK3
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 06:29 PM CST
Thanks for all of the great advice!
I tend to agree and typically we randomly generate our tabletop characters, but one of the other two admitted that when it comes to online gaming he can e a real min/maxer and might want to restart unless he feels like he picked the perfect profession. That's the main reason I asked these things so I could convince him that our initial group was well made up to kick some butt so he wouldnt' fall prey to the grass-is-greener-for-the-next-profession bug.
Can't thank you all enough for answering things for me!
I tend to agree and typically we randomly generate our tabletop characters, but one of the other two admitted that when it comes to online gaming he can e a real min/maxer and might want to restart unless he feels like he picked the perfect profession. That's the main reason I asked these things so I could convince him that our initial group was well made up to kick some butt so he wouldnt' fall prey to the grass-is-greener-for-the-next-profession bug.
Can't thank you all enough for answering things for me!
LUXELLE
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 07:41 PM CST
You advance like CRAZY under 20 ... re-starting a new profession would be a snap.
Take your time to get it right at first.
And Welcome home!!
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Take your time to get it right at first.
And Welcome home!!
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
DMWCINCY
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 10:08 PM CST
Having a sword and board ranger and hunting with a bard and paladin in the same group...that trio is an amazing combo. If you go into warcamps you could do tons of damage. Have the paladin be the group leader and bard learn tonis and the ranger dropping vines and swarms and their companion. A nice army there. If you have questions on a sword and board build look puptilian up in game.
Pups player
THROGG
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/03/2017 11:59 PM CST
What are your retired characters? I ask because you might want to bring them back, if only to toss some spells at your friends prior to going on a hunt. I do something similar with my capped gals, not having multi-account. I spell friends with them up prior to a hunt, then bring in my current playing character.
An empath early on isn't that much help, but after a while they kick butt. They can boneshatter living foes, and also heal their friends. Once they get minor sanctuary, it can be a lifesaver.
A mixture of spiritualists and elementalists spreads out the spell abilities. On the other hand, at low levels, warriors can be the easiest to play. Semis can be tricky, and archery for a newcomer can get complicated. THW/sword&board might be a better intro.
Some of the respondants here are drooling over abilities that you get at level 30-40 or so. Talk to your friends and discuss how the professions work at lower levels, and see what interests them the most.
An empath early on isn't that much help, but after a while they kick butt. They can boneshatter living foes, and also heal their friends. Once they get minor sanctuary, it can be a lifesaver.
A mixture of spiritualists and elementalists spreads out the spell abilities. On the other hand, at low levels, warriors can be the easiest to play. Semis can be tricky, and archery for a newcomer can get complicated. THW/sword&board might be a better intro.
Some of the respondants here are drooling over abilities that you get at level 30-40 or so. Talk to your friends and discuss how the professions work at lower levels, and see what interests them the most.
ADAMWOLFPACK3
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/04/2017 01:33 AM CST
Thanks for the input everyone! I've been up all night (Adderall) researching this, so I have a ton more insight now. Basically reading about all the stuff that's been changed/added since I last played.
To answer your question the highest two characters I got were a mid 40's Ranger and a low 20's wizard. Both on different accounts according to the email I sent myself years ago detailing what characters were on which accounts.
Somehow I was too stupid to note the levels instead of the just characters names! Luckily I remember the top two names.. but I bet I had a "mule" character or three with all my loot.
Both of these two friends have played MUDs before, but not very often. We all have computer science degrees so I can show them how to simplify the more difficult playstyles quickly. Thus luckily I don't have to factor that in.
I bet both of them are going to want to play with a bunch of different characters before they really start to level one anyways so this exercise is pointless!
On that note, I'm liking Paladin, Bard, Cleric a bunch at the moment.
I was really leaning towards Wizard, Bard, Paladin until I finally fully understood the haste (celerity) changes I saw that with 50 air lore you can group cast it and I almost shit my bricks with how overpowered that would be. It's actually still pretty overpowered, but at least the four minute lockout makes it reasonable.
I do wish that Empaths got at least one group +as/ds/td type spell in their class tree when Clerics get two nice ones. I'm not really into playing an Empath, but because I wouldn't mind the skinning and wilderness healing.
Anyways thanks everyone and I'll keep you updated once I settle on something!
To answer your question the highest two characters I got were a mid 40's Ranger and a low 20's wizard. Both on different accounts according to the email I sent myself years ago detailing what characters were on which accounts.
Somehow I was too stupid to note the levels instead of the just characters names! Luckily I remember the top two names.. but I bet I had a "mule" character or three with all my loot.
Both of these two friends have played MUDs before, but not very often. We all have computer science degrees so I can show them how to simplify the more difficult playstyles quickly. Thus luckily I don't have to factor that in.
I bet both of them are going to want to play with a bunch of different characters before they really start to level one anyways so this exercise is pointless!
On that note, I'm liking Paladin, Bard, Cleric a bunch at the moment.
I was really leaning towards Wizard, Bard, Paladin until I finally fully understood the haste (celerity) changes I saw that with 50 air lore you can group cast it and I almost shit my bricks with how overpowered that would be. It's actually still pretty overpowered, but at least the four minute lockout makes it reasonable.
I do wish that Empaths got at least one group +as/ds/td type spell in their class tree when Clerics get two nice ones. I'm not really into playing an Empath, but because I wouldn't mind the skinning and wilderness healing.
Anyways thanks everyone and I'll keep you updated once I settle on something!
CLUNK24963
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/04/2017 01:20 PM CST
>>You advance like CRAZY under 20 ... re-starting a new profession would be a snap.
Does visiting all the shops, isiting the Thrak, and listening to the sprite still help a LOT with doing those quick advances?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
Does visiting all the shops, isiting the Thrak, and listening to the sprite still help a LOT with doing those quick advances?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
LUXELLE
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/04/2017 01:30 PM CST
>> Does visiting all the shops, isiting the Thrak, and listening to the sprite still help a LOT with doing those quick advances?
Yes. And ... it just all flew by so quickly even after I was done with that.
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
Yes. And ... it just all flew by so quickly even after I was done with that.
---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)
DRUMPEL
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/04/2017 01:31 PM CST
>Does visiting all the shops, isiting the Thrak, and listening to the sprite still help a LOT with doing those quick advances?
Running through all the shops, bank, out the front gate (be sure to move one spot outside the gate before you go back through it) should get you through level 0 post haste.
Raging Thrak - if I have something else I need to do for about 15 minutes away from the game, I'll park a fresh character with him and when I get back he's usually done talking and asking questions. This will get you halfway through level 1 to 2.
You can also run messages from the town hall clerk until level 4 - but this is slow going and you only get a handful of silver each letter. I usually team up doing this with killing rats. Let the mind fill with rats, get a letter and run it. wait a bit and repeat.
Sprite - good to help you get a real basic grasp on what can happen in the game, but that's about it. Sure, you earn some XP and it's neat to go through the whole sprite thing once or twice, but it's too time consuming to make advancing out of the low levels in a fast manner.
-Drumpel
Running through all the shops, bank, out the front gate (be sure to move one spot outside the gate before you go back through it) should get you through level 0 post haste.
Raging Thrak - if I have something else I need to do for about 15 minutes away from the game, I'll park a fresh character with him and when I get back he's usually done talking and asking questions. This will get you halfway through level 1 to 2.
You can also run messages from the town hall clerk until level 4 - but this is slow going and you only get a handful of silver each letter. I usually team up doing this with killing rats. Let the mind fill with rats, get a letter and run it. wait a bit and repeat.
Sprite - good to help you get a real basic grasp on what can happen in the game, but that's about it. Sure, you earn some XP and it's neat to go through the whole sprite thing once or twice, but it's too time consuming to make advancing out of the low levels in a fast manner.
-Drumpel
THROGG
Re: One last question and then I think I'm set :)
02/05/2017 12:03 AM CST
But ... you get a neat pink hood out of the Sprite Quest!
