In another folder, farmer posted
>>If you want to seriously compare the state of each profession, start a new thread and I'll respond honestly.
>>I don't think it'll accomplish what you think it will though.
I'm actually curious to see what people think about this, so here's that new thread. What do people think are the current levels of development for each class? Which classes need attention, and how much? Which are in a good place right now? If there are classes that are too strong, which are they?
To me I basically divide the classes into a few tiers.
Tier 1: Clerics, Empaths, Bards, Rangers, Wizards. These classes have multiple viable builds, strong and desirable utility, and the "cool" factor that makes you want to play them just to show off what you can do. I don't think any of them cry out for urgent new development. You might argue that one is a little higher than another, or whatever, but I think overall they're pretty close to each other.
Tier 2: Warriors, Rogues, Sorcerers, Paladins, Monks. In each case, these classes are lacking something to get to tier 1. Sometimes it's multiple build viability (Sorcerers, Monks, kind of Paladins, kind of Rogues). Sometimes it's utility (Paladins, Monks, Warriors, Sorcerers until recently). Sometimes it's cool factor (Paladins, Monks). These are the classes where I would focus development to get them to tier 1. Notably, this is where most of the recent development has landed, as well.
The only class I really waffled on which tier to put them in was Rogues -- they are either the top of tier 2 or the bottom of tier 1, I think.
If I were to have a third tier, I would put Monks in it by themselves.
Very interested in other thoughts and perspectives.
WBURKE1
BHTM
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 02:54 PM CDT
Warriors are just fine after the recent shield/cman/armor upgrades. Rogues are fine, group hiding mechanic fix was a big boon to them as were several CMANs such as vanish and divert, along with the shield upgrades.
Wizards in my opinion could use some updating. Familiars are severely lacking. Elemental lore review is long overdue. 525 is a waste of a high level spell slot. 502 is just worthless entirely. Several other spells I would guess get cast very rarely if ever, such as sandstorm and slow.
Sorcerers have had more dev than most sorcerer players will admit to and are just fine.
Empaths and clerics are fine as is.
Bards could use some updating to singing sword and just a general sprucing up.
Rangers just need updates to make companions more viable and a better hunting partner than they currently are.
Paladins need a TP cost adjustment and possibly a spell review to adjust the benefits of some of the lamer spells.
Monks just came out and aren't in dire need of adjusting at the moment IMO.
-Richard/Fjalar.
Wizards in my opinion could use some updating. Familiars are severely lacking. Elemental lore review is long overdue. 525 is a waste of a high level spell slot. 502 is just worthless entirely. Several other spells I would guess get cast very rarely if ever, such as sandstorm and slow.
Sorcerers have had more dev than most sorcerer players will admit to and are just fine.
Empaths and clerics are fine as is.
Bards could use some updating to singing sword and just a general sprucing up.
Rangers just need updates to make companions more viable and a better hunting partner than they currently are.
Paladins need a TP cost adjustment and possibly a spell review to adjust the benefits of some of the lamer spells.
Monks just came out and aren't in dire need of adjusting at the moment IMO.
-Richard/Fjalar.
DOUG
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 03:10 PM CDT
<<Paladins need a TP cost adjustment
. . .
Doug
. . .
Doug
CAELRIC
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 03:50 PM CDT
| Sorcerers have had more dev than most sorcerer players will admit to and are just fine. |
Sorcs have had plenty of dev lately. Two things still missing: lore effects on our basic attack spells (702 and 705) and a mass CS attack spell. Give me those, and I would be fine with the state of the profession.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
CAUSTICONE
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 04:40 PM CDT
<a mass CS attack spell
Does 135 count?
Does 135 count?
GELSTONJ
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 04:42 PM CDT
No. I think sorcerers should have a mass CS attack spell at least on par with sonic disruption.
~James
Player of Septimius
~James
Player of Septimius
LORDEVARIN
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 04:57 PM CDT
I vote wizards for top spot. They need some hardcore overhaul of their lores and bolt mechanics in general.
ZENDADA
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 06:09 PM CDT
Been rolling this around in my head for a while and I think I am honing in on an answer, kind of.
I'm starting to look at the professions in terms of flexibility versus focus. It is easier in my mind to tier or group them this way. They all are unique. They all have flavor. They all have had tons of development at one time or another. They all can go from 0 - 100.
From most flexible to most focused I would rank them this way...
Bards, Rangers, Wizards - most flexibility
Clerics, Empaths, Sorcerers, Monks - some flexibility but more focused
Paladins, Warriors, Rogues - most focused
Who should get more or less development than another? I have a very hard time answering that. It seems like a really subjective question. GS is a game that is constantly evolving.
Chad, player of a few
I'm starting to look at the professions in terms of flexibility versus focus. It is easier in my mind to tier or group them this way. They all are unique. They all have flavor. They all have had tons of development at one time or another. They all can go from 0 - 100.
From most flexible to most focused I would rank them this way...
Bards, Rangers, Wizards - most flexibility
Clerics, Empaths, Sorcerers, Monks - some flexibility but more focused
Paladins, Warriors, Rogues - most focused
Who should get more or less development than another? I have a very hard time answering that. It seems like a really subjective question. GS is a game that is constantly evolving.
Chad, player of a few
LORDEVARIN
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/28/2013 06:36 PM CDT
You can also look at near completely useless spells or outright missing spells. Wizards have spell store, Paladins have that terrible divine vengeance spell, and poor clerics are missing their 20th level spell I their main list.
For squares I think honestly the thrown and dodge review would do much to expand on squares and physical semi's versatility.
For squares I think honestly the thrown and dodge review would do much to expand on squares and physical semi's versatility.
ISMANO
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/29/2013 01:45 AM CDT
>I don't think it'll accomplish what you think it will though.
Me
Since I'm tired I'll simply say that what I meant by this was that nothing good will come of this discussion. No one's opinion is going to change about the any profession. This is the internet. We're all right in our own eyes and anyone that disagrees with that r dum.
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.
-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee
Me
Since I'm tired I'll simply say that what I meant by this was that nothing good will come of this discussion. No one's opinion is going to change about the any profession. This is the internet. We're all right in our own eyes and anyone that disagrees with that r dum.
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.
-farmer
>"Mine lights my character on fire and makes her all glowy." -Raelee
BLACKKOBOLD
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/29/2013 12:13 PM CDT
<<Since I'm tired I'll simply say that what I meant by this was that nothing good will come of this discussion. No one's opinion is going to change about the any profession. This is the internet. We're all right in our own eyes and anyone that disagrees with that r dum.
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.>>
If anyone should agree with you, it's me. Very few people agree with my ideas and I have a tendency to debate them endlessly. However, it's also usually the case that the discussion moves at least somewhat toward the middle, in the end. I see signs of this happening in the ongoing discussion on symbol of dreams in the Voln folder, for instance. Things are not always what they seem!
I think getting ideas out there can definitely be useful to the development staff. It's good for them to know how we feel about things rather than make decisions based only upon their own input.
~Taverkin
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.>>
If anyone should agree with you, it's me. Very few people agree with my ideas and I have a tendency to debate them endlessly. However, it's also usually the case that the discussion moves at least somewhat toward the middle, in the end. I see signs of this happening in the ongoing discussion on symbol of dreams in the Voln folder, for instance. Things are not always what they seem!
I think getting ideas out there can definitely be useful to the development staff. It's good for them to know how we feel about things rather than make decisions based only upon their own input.
~Taverkin
ZIZZLE-ZEARL
Re: Profession Development/Tiers
04/29/2013 01:01 PM CDT
I agree that I would rather have a civil discussion about ideas, whatever they are, just for the reason that those who do develop for this game can use these as a basis for their ideas. Realistically, players will never really get what they want in the form that they conceive them. Likewise GMs cannot just implement every willy nilly idea without some degree of cohesion between various game systems, and of course its ability to fit the history and genre of Elanthia. This takes careful consideration of the impact any one thing can have in the game. It will always be best to err on the side of NOT implementing something, than to implement it with game breaking imbalance.
Nothing is so simple as stating it and making it so.
<<Since I'm tired I'll simply say that what I meant by this was that nothing good will come of this discussion. No one's opinion is going to change about the any profession. This is the internet. We're all right in our own eyes and anyone that disagrees with that r dum.
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.>>
If anyone should agree with you, it's me. Very few people agree with my ideas and I have a tendency to debate them endlessly. However, it's also usually the case that the discussion moves at least somewhat toward the middle, in the end. I see signs of this happening in the ongoing discussion on symbol of dreams in the Voln folder, for instance. Things are not always what they seem!
I think getting ideas out there can definitely be useful to the development staff. It's good for them to know how we feel about things rather than make decisions based only upon their own input.
~Taverkin
--Zizzle
Nothing is so simple as stating it and making it so.
<<Since I'm tired I'll simply say that what I meant by this was that nothing good will come of this discussion. No one's opinion is going to change about the any profession. This is the internet. We're all right in our own eyes and anyone that disagrees with that r dum.
Sure, some intelligent and thoughtful discussion can occur, but in the end, the most it'll do is get a bunch of people's posts pulled and warnings given out if it continues for any length of time.>>
If anyone should agree with you, it's me. Very few people agree with my ideas and I have a tendency to debate them endlessly. However, it's also usually the case that the discussion moves at least somewhat toward the middle, in the end. I see signs of this happening in the ongoing discussion on symbol of dreams in the Voln folder, for instance. Things are not always what they seem!
I think getting ideas out there can definitely be useful to the development staff. It's good for them to know how we feel about things rather than make decisions based only upon their own input.
~Taverkin
--Zizzle
