I recently created an account, having not played since around 95, maybe 98. I made a Sorcerer and got to level 3, before making a Wizard and getting to 4, before remaking a Wizard and currently sit at an impressive level 5.

So far, I've enjoyed my time, and I've had fun role playing, and have had a surprising amount of wonderful interactions, both with GS staff, and especially players. The community is truly amazing. I went ahead and bought 10 dollars in Simucoins, primarily to advance in Voln past rank 1, but also as an investment in the future. I'm definitely not going to subscribe with the current system in place.

I know that sounds odd considering how much I said I enjoyed things so far, but I've also had serious problems. The biggest one is, there don't seem to be almost any new players. When I was hunting rats in Wehnimer's landing, I was the only one doing so. When I want to make slabs of iron, I didn't see a single person, and certainly not anyone hunting kobolds. There were no people in Voln, period, I had to get an invite from someone in Town Square Central, the courtyard was empty. The closest I found to someone my level was another player who was also trying to enter the graveyard. We pushed together but we needed more players, and there were none. We both tried to climb over the gate, but were injured. I dragged myself back to Town Square Central and couldn't even get healed, because there were no Empaths on at that time. There's no Simucoins pass to make hundreds of more people try out the game so that the world feels populated again.

I found a chest off a level 2 ghoul, and thankfully, there was someone who could pick my lock in town. He was about to go hunting and asked me to buff him with 401 and 503 (he used the correct names, I'm sorry I don't currently recall them). I actually couldn't do this, I had to whisper him ooc that I couldn't help him because I wasn't allowed to cast spells on him. That feels bad for him, feels bad for me, and is a great example of lose/lose design.

Finding an Empath in TSC is hit or miss, so forget about someone chancing upon you when you die and dragging you into town, I've had to depart every time. Thankfully death is less punishing, one of the many positive changes I've seen made to the game systems. I have some further suggestions for improvement, that will hopefully draw more players in, and make me want to subscribe again.

F2P is currently far too punishing. Huge cooldowns on spells that hit other players, and removal of PVP for F2P accounts entirely seems like a great idea, I actually fully support this, I would never want to see 'throwaway' accounts being used to grief people. Needing a subscription to effectively gain levels, or join guilds, get normal amounts of loot, or fully utilize the bank, lockers or the great new adventuring guild (it is new to me) needs to be completely redesigned. I'm level 5, so I can't enchant or ensorcell or do anything, but I should be able to do those things, just like I should be able to buff other players, that just brings value to subscribers and F2Pers alike.

A great example of a 'subscriber only' benefit is the Gift of Lumnis. As I understand it, it is a big multiplier once a week to experience for a few hours. That's a nice perk everyone would want, but also isn't essential to the core game experience. Expanded lockers, extra characters slots, special subscriber only events and items (preferably fluff or convenience items. Having the next weapon upgrade being subscriber only would be a big turn off). The limit of one character per F2P account is asinine, as those accounts can be easily made, all it does is inconvenience. However 5 or 6 accounts, with double or triple for subscribers, or even a one time fee, would do wonders.

A lot could be learned from the currently successful F2P games. I play Hearthstone, which is a great game, and everything from a competitive standpoint can be done the same with a free account, it just takes a little longer. Extra character portraits and certain card backs require additional payments, but these are essentially fluff. The game is set up to encourage even new, non paying players to play as much as possible, all they ever sell are aesthetics and convenience, and as a result, people are constantly trying out their game, leading it to be one of the most successful products under the Blizzard umbrella. Are some players free loading? Sure, but those players are also vital to the health of the game itself, even non paying customers provide something to Blizzard, and enhance the experience for the paying customers. After all, those golden cards and portraits wouldn't be impressive if you didn't have so many other people who had yet to obtain them.

I hope this suggestion gets taken seriously, because I think this is a wonderful game, and I wish it didn't feel like it was on life support. You wouldn't believe how many dead links I ran into as I tried to google information about things I could barely remember, and that's a shame. You need people to be excited to play for free, I promise, with enough of those new players, you will get new customers, and the game will grow and attract more people to it. As it is, I wouldn't recommend this to someone who I played it with over a decade ago, I doubt they will hunt rats and revenants by themselves like I did.

I'm only going to level to 10, and maybe try out one more class before I retire again if changes aren't made. I'm not interested in the subscriber only features if there isn't a growing pool of new players, every feature for free in the store wouldn't be worth my time in a game that feels like I am playing by myself. I read a guide telling me to access a special room in the catacombs by jumping with 5 or more players, and let me tell you, nothing in the store could unlock that. I honestly think the whole subscription model is a bad idea in this day and age, and Freemium is the future, but that's something to worryh about when the game is growing, or at least as full as it used to be.

What is the point of having the best implemented MUD in the world if there aren't enough people playing it? So many years of refinement and development, and yet so little to draw in new or returning players and make them excited about starting over.

I made a new post on the reddit thread. I'm just crossposting it here, especially since I haven't really heard a response from Simutronics staff or players, and figured I might as well finish getting all my thoughts out in the open, in the hopes that I can provide some constructive criticism.

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I was just idling browsing the Simucoin store out of curiosity since I have extra coins, and clicked on the links to Premium and Platinum. There's actually no page I could find that is a clear breakdown of the benefits between each that is easily understood, which for a game this old is completely inexcusable.
I should be able to see, at a quick glance, what each membership tier offers, encompassing F2P, Basic, Premium and Platinum. This game is a 20 year old game with complex scripting, anything short of an easily readable chart with a breakdown is obfuscation.
A few minutes of googling and poking around the website and I still haven't found a place explaining what just a basic, ie 14.99 a month membership entails. I did find an old forums post from 2009 complaining that basic only allowed for one character slot. If that is true, I can see why they keep that information hidden, because it is ridiculous. 14.99 is on the extremely high end of monthly subscriptions. Amazon Prime costs me 100 bucks a year, and saves me more than that on shipping costs, not to mention a streaming video service. Netflix is 8 or 9 bucks a month. Am I understanding things correct that extra character slots are only available through premium, which is an additional 10 dollars a month? I'm expected to pay more than I pay for Amazon Prime, just to play both a Wizard and a Warrior? People actually do this?
If I pay Simutronics more for something, I need that something to be reflective of a cost, for them. I'm not interested in being bilked. An extra character slot is not reflective of additional cost on their end, it is effectively 0 overhead. Premium events/areas/items run by GMs faster issue/bug resolution, this requires people and attention, more staffing, and thus more money to cover the costs.
It feels like some bizarre and, in my opinion, wrongheaded attempt at profit maximization. I wouldn't play Gemstone IV by myself, the community is a vital part of the game, and if all of the decisions are aimed towards profitability instead of growth and health of the game as a whole, I'm not going to spend any more money to effectively endorse that decision.
My brief return began with interest and excitement, and has kind of spiraled into frustration and, ultimately, sadness.
I am lucky enough to have both money and time to spend on games, but both are a precious resource, and are competing against a wide array of options. I don't feel the current Gemstone IV experience values my time and money as much as I do, so I'll probably spend it elsewhere.

Finally getting around to responding to your initial post - been busy!

Regarding not seeing anyone in rats or other low level hunting areas - this might be due to what time of day your playing, though also could be a side effect of the Gift of Lumnis you mentioned. With Lumnis, I can easily get a new character to L5 within the day, which makes it so they only really hunt in rats and so forth a couple times before moving on. Without Lumnis, you may be sticking around in rats proportionally longer, which may make it seem like they're pretty empty. I had just started a new character last week and did happen to see another new person hunting there for the couple hunts I was there, though it's a bit rare I do admit. I imagine once you level up a bit, you may find more like-level people in the hunting areas. (This is sort of what had worried me with F2P - I had considered asking some friends to try it out and I was going to make a new character to hunt with them, though remembered how much faster I'd level compared to them, so wasn't sure how that'd turn out.)

I do admit the hunting areas probably do seem barren compared to the 90s - back then you had to mainly camp in a specific room in certain hunting areas due to the amount of people.

And I do agree that Basic could probably do with at least one extra character slot thrown in for the subscription price - I believe it's currently an extra couple dollars a month per slot. It would seem like a normal addition that scaled up from F2P, which seems to be the current 1-character slot tier.

>>but you appear to be implying I didn't form my own opinion?

Not at all. But the thousands and tens of thousands that might read that stream? I could say much, much more on the topic, but rest assured, my hope didn't include you. It doesn't need to because you are forming your own opinion.

>>My complaint about the clear subscription info was completely valid, there should be breakdown on the subscription area on the main site, perhaps with a link to the wiki stubs for more details

I have no intention of invalidating your point. I simply pointed out where the information you sought actually lives. There's been a significant movement to take information from the main website (as in remove that information) and re-home that content on the wiki.

>>The pricing model doesn't even make sense. [edit] This is a game I want to play, that can't meet my very reasonable expectations in 2016.

As I said, I won't comment on the value of a subscription to you personally - that's something each of us must decide for him or her self.

I will provide a slight historical perspective - you're likely not alone with respect to your thoughts on the basic subscription. The premium subscription also includes as a benefit 15 character slots for that extra $25. Historical suggestions at the basic subscription level have included a $1 per slot charge, a model where the basic subscription includes some basic number (2, 3 and 5 seemed very common) before charging the additional costs, and so on.

Doug

Alot of what you mentioned is indeed by design and to protect current revenue. There is room for improvement but F2P is meant to be a path to incentive subscription.

Since you are a former player (that did not reactivate your original account), I can see the frustration as I have created a F2P account (but did not have that much of an issue getting to title and as an alt and with preset expectations it was fine). New players however, won't miss some of the perks (never knowing them), but may indeed find hunting and loot and other things lacking in content and reward (without various, short term, constant store boosts).

Anyway, I'm up for a Adv Guild treasure room refresh and do think the new micro-transaction revenue and increased events could more then afford a slight loss from additional character slot revenue in order to enhance the various account types.

That sounds like a popular way to modernize somewhat to current standards.

I'm not aware of anything being 'devalued' and I can't imagine anyone would be upset that more options would be available to everyone, for less. The Standard sub allows me to do what I would want with one character, but not multiple. That's unacceptable and an issue I'm trying to address, along with the F2P option not being tenable. If you don't think Premium is offering you enough, maybe it is a worthwhile discussion topic but I've never had premium, I have no real opinion on it, and I think that topic should probably happen in another forum.

I also want to quickly make it clear that not all of my concerns have equal weighting. Being unable to create multiple F2P characters on the same account was a minor annoyance that had a needless workaround. Being able to create a large roster of F2P characters in their current incarnation would not magically solve my issues with the system, I mostly brought it up to point out how the 'restrict everything' mindset on design created problems for me as someone who was doing everything as it was intended (Role playing, attentive play, the only 'scripts' I used were lich's go2 command which was entirely new to me, etc)

No, what I'm asking for is absolutely acceptable, reasonable, and a reason why the game has remained so small, and actually shrunk, since I last played it. They obviously have seen dwindling subscriber numbers, but they're attempts to fix it aren't attractive to new potential subscribers. I know because I am one.

Do you really know where I am coming from? Go ahead and make a free account and play for 8-10 hours, try out a couple of classes and then write up your experience, and tell me what you thought. Bonus points if you pretend you don't know anyone in the game world and play it as if you were a new or long time returning player. I won't even make you try three or four different classes, just play one to level 5 or so, and tell me what you think of the experience.

F2P doesn't offer enough, and since you appear to be a premium subscriber, I'm guessing you haven't spent any time with it at all. There's absolutely nothing impressive about the current scale of this game. I was recently watching a speed run on Twitch (a live streaming service) of Diablo 2. About twice as many people were watching someone play a 15 year old game on one of several streaming platforms, than were currently playing Gemstone IV.

I think this game is beyond irrelevant and desperately needs a shakeup. If you are happy with your pricing options, what is available and what you receive, I think that's wonderful. Happy subscribers are important. New subscribers are also important for the health of the game and the current subscription model. If you are upset at the idea that the current lower tier options would change, because then you are overpaying, you should probably examine why that is, since the service you currently get, and would continue to get, would never change.

>>F2P offers plenty enough as a trial

This is it exactly, though I don't think you quite intended it that way. F2P seems to be setup as a trial system, which it seems to work for that, but it isn't really a playing option in how many games would say free to play.

Now your probability for change dropped to 0%

>This is it exactly, though I don't think you quite intended it that way. F2P seems to be setup as a trial system, which it seems to work for that, but it isn't really a playing option in how many games would say free to play.

It's intended as a trial, because the intent is for people to subscribe to play at a reasonable level past a certain point. You can always log in to RP with a F2P account, but anything that gets you meaningful amounts of tangible benefits (silvers, services, access to utility spells and permanent abilities) should be subscription level only.

It isn't meant to function the way other games that are truly F2P do because all of those other games are F2P for everyone, not just newly created F2P accounts with some special status. Subscribers have to pay to even access their characters, so F2P already provides far more flexibility than subscription accounts do for some things. It's the tradeoff you get when Simu wants to have its cake (guaranteed, reliable subscription revenue) and eat it too.

I mean, 15 dollars isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things. I snap bought 1000 simu coins just to spend 250 and join Voln. I was actually about to resub when I realized I only got 1 character, and I know I'm not going to be happy unless I can switch between 4 or 5, that's how I am with every type of game with professions. So now I'm going to be spending 25 bucks a month. I'm not exactly unable to meet that expense either, in fact, I'm happy to say I could comfortably afford multiple Platinum accounts if I desired, not that I could ever figure out how to use so many of them.

I'm not willing to for the same reason I'm not willing to spend my money on lots of things as a rational actor. What was reasonable to me for 15, is unreasonable at 25, or 55, or 2,500, we all make those distinctions somewhere. I simply can't play the game how I want for 'only' 15 dollars, they don't offer it, and quite frankly, for that price, I demand certain things they won't provide, so I'm not going to subscribe. Perhaps they make more money that way, and feel they can deliver a better game experience with those funds. It is their game, and their decision, but they need to convince each subscriber one at a time, and I'm not convinced. I spent well over 5 hours playing it recently, I figured I could spend another 30 minutes telling them about my experience, although to be honest, I've probably spent well over that much time talking about it as well.

I disagree that there's an issue with a basic subscription, which already provides a great deal of benefit. These days, per account limitations mean F2P and multiple basic have many more advantages in general over an eroding Premium subscription value.

The problem these days is that everyone wants everything Premium has while paying little to nothing.

TL;DR : I agree 1 character slot for regular sub is a ripoff.

It has only provided a great deal of benefit very recently. Before f2p it didn't provide anything at all. I agree that you should get at least 3-5 character slots with a basic sub. I mean premium is I think 15 slots.

While $15 isn't a lot on money, think of what you get for it. You get to play one character on a very outdated game. I can pay less than that or that much and get a state of the art MMO with graphics and way more than one character slot. While the majority of the players don't RP in these graphical games, you can join RP guilds if that is what you want. Lets be honest, GS is a very sophisticated chat room.

It is no wonder that new players don't want to pay $15 to play in a chat room. I understand that the f2p is meant to be a trial but to a new player when they see f2p they think of the standard f2p model which this isn't. Most f2p models don't make you earn less xp, don't make you purchase spell potions or whatever to cast all the offensive spells in your arsenal. I think the wording of the model is partly to blame. I realize that because of the way this game is played that if they moved to what is the industry standard for f2p they wouldn't be able to support it at their current profit margins.

If I was a new player and saw this pricing model, I would pretty much say screw this, these people are just nickel and diming their customers. $2.50 for a second character slot when you are paying $15 for a text based 30 year old game, really? The only reason I still play this game instead of the other actual f2p muds is because I don't want to have to learn the layout of another game(I'm lazy). These free muds have more people playing, have much more responsive development teams, and actually have end game content/something to do at cap other than continue hunting those same 6 creatures for the rest of your life. While the development team has stepped up their development in the past couple years their communication on changes is stuck 15 years ago. At some point you have to announce ahead of time of changes and what the changes will be. This whole a GM could get hit by a car stuff is just a cop out.

This was a longer rant than I expected. I'll leave it here.

TL;DR : I agree 1 character slot for regular sub is a ripoff.

http://i.imgur.com/lsWPzG9.gif

>The problem these days is that everyone wants everything Premium has while paying little to nothing.

Uh, yeah, of course they do. I also want a Model S for the price of a Kia Rio. I don't see how that affects Tesla drivers in any meaningful way.

As a side note, I actually did try DR's F2P model after reading about it in this particular forum. I do agree that the 30-day boosts that they have for purchase make it a lot more attractive - you can parcel out buying what bits of a subscription you'd like. I think I enjoyed the fact they had different lengths of time you could purchase for the different boosts - loot boost for a day, exp boost for a day, exp login drain for 30-days, etc. I'd never been big into DR before, though I liked to try it off and on over the years - the F2P model there didn't feel too restrictive and I felt like I could try the game out and grab what subscription-level additions I wanted as extras. I don't know if they have specific spells blocked for personal use, though, like GS - I seemed to be able to use all the abilities I learned.

As to GS' F2P model, I agree it would probably go a long way in helping if there was an ability to buy 30-day boosts for specific things and to not have restricted certain spells completely for personal use. (I have never tried F2P on GS, myself, as I'm a subscriber, so really don't need to - but I'm only speculating based on what I've heard and read about the restrictions.) As others said, though, it'll probably take a while to percolate suggestions to the higher-ups and have them implemented. I'm sure they're listening. However - I'd suggest emailing your concerns/suggestions to Feedback, as well (I think the email address is listed somewhere.)

And I think the OP is mostly speaking about giving Basic subscriptions an extra 2 character slots for the $15 base price, not giving any other Premium perks to them. As a long time Premium subscriber, I honestly wouldn't mind if Basics got a couple extra slots - as Premium, we get a huge amount and I wouldn't feel like I was giving up any real huge perks in that regard. Not sure if it may add to the incentive for F2P to subscribe, though.

So, I've done a lot of F2P exploration, and have leveled every class except for Rogue (or Sorcerer because my subbed character is a Sorcerer) to level 25 using F2P accounts. It really wasn't that big of a deal to be F2P if you understand and work your character around the limitations. Only a handful of class-specific characteristics were limiting factors, and in the end I now have a few extremely useful and fun characters at my disposal. Are they going to explode and level up quickly? Hardly! They can, however, be super enjoyable and effective at their roles.

The #1 biggest thing missing from the F2P store is better "Magic Spell Pass" access. There is just one right now - 15 minutes. Well, I'm sorry, but 15 minutes is useless. I don't know how sales are for that specific pass, but spending $.10 every time I want to use my Bard in a hunt for 15 minute seems asinine.

Now, spending $8.50 for a 30 day spell casting pass seems super useful. I'd definitely do that, and guaranty that pass will sell consistently. Spending $.50 for a 24-hour spell pass? Yup, I'd use that on a regular basis.

Let's add up the cost to make a "functional" character if you had these types of passes in game.

Society Access for 30 days = $2.50
Lets say 30 days of spell casting pass = $8.50
Want a locker? $2.00 a month
Profession Guild Access (not implemented yet) lets say $2.50

Already we're looking at more than your average subscribed account, but you get to mix-and-match while being able to go months without paying any of that and still being able to play and enjoy the character. Experience passes are $.40 for 3 hours, so lets say you hunt on average of 12-24 hours every month, that'd run you $1.60-$3.20 for each month. Then there's all the little 1-time things you have to pay for like elemental attunement (need a pass to attune), increasing your bank account, relocating your bank account so you can hunt in a different city ($1.00 every time you change cities)

You can really customize your services here. The problem is that you really just can't make a fully functional F2P account without that spell pass. Everything else seems to be there (guild pass aside).

The F2P account is still not going to make the player any real $$:

1. No major abilities that generate income (chrism, ensorcell, enchanting, armor enhancements, etc)
2. No artisan guild access (forging, fletching, cobbling)
3. Limited bank / locker / inventory space.

But, the character would be functional within the realm, able to hunt and advance at a reasonable pace, and even cap. This is the model that F2P needs to support.

I think the massive benefit Premium accounts have is access to FWI and the many more merchants per month. Just look at the calendar and see how 90% of the events are premium. The value of having access to premium raffles, premium points system, premium merchants, and the list continues is far greater than multiple character slots... Especially when you can only log into a single character per account at any time.

<If I was a new player and saw this pricing model, I would pretty much say screw this, these people are just nickel and diming their customers. $2.50 for a second character slot when you are paying $15 for a text based 30 year old game, really?>

Hi,

This is pretty much my reaction...

I'm technically not "new" but haven't played since Gemstone III on AOL. Came back yesterday for a nostalgia hit and I'm currently a level 3 Paladin on a F2P character. (Ancellon, if you see me wandering around Icewind Dale)

I would happily throw this game a few dollars because I am enjoying myself, but $15/month is too big of a commitment and I don't really understand what benefits I even get. "Basic" does not seem worthwhile because it seems like even if I did commit to $15/month the game would just want MORE money.

The F2P stuff is too annoying... and $15/month for 1 character seems like too much... so I guess I'll just quit? I just feel disappointed that there doesn't seem to be a business model that works for me.

You can quit playing and just use your F2P account to monitor the forums, I think thats what happens with most of them.

"Other than the 1 character slot you really do get pretty much the entire game for 15 dollars a month." -- TGO02

(I just realized that that's an 'oh' and a 'zero'; I'd always read it as two zeros, before. Who knew?!?)

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by: KRAKII
re: The official "Change the subscription name" thread--support it here
on: 6/25/2004
at: 11:55:23 AM
##: 9294

I said it nearly seven years ago, and repeated it (at volume, and at length) over the intervening period.

There should be two (now, three, with Platinum) subscription levels:
- Standard: Full Access To All Game Features account. Ten characters and their lockers, with a locker in every town. Allowed into all player-accessible areas of the game.
- No-Frills: Bargain Basement All-You-Care-To-Play No-Frills Just-The-Basics-Thanks Account subscription. The normal account trimmed down to only one character, with limited locker capability. Full access to all races and all professions, but only one of them at a time. Not allowed into certain areas.

.

.

It's a matter of perception. Change the perception.

> The biggest challenge I see with F2P is it tries to fill several different roles. It was designed to be a "lite" version of the game, maybe intended to be played for free, maybe to coax players into subscribing over time. Even if players never subscribe they still add value to the game. F2P also seems to be promoted as a trial version -- but given the restrictions, this doesn't seem like the best introduction to the game.

I wish that they had kept the trial (it could have been shortened if necessary) and people then chose either to go f2p or subscription at the end of it. I was playing GS on the month trial when f2p started and, if I hadn't been playing already and/or played DR previously, I would likely have stopped there. As it was, after only a day or two of f2p, I subscribed because the penalties felt that miserable in comparison.