I am generally skeptical of anyone who says--anywhere, not just here... but certainly here, too--that they never got any warning or interaction for <whatever behavior they want to do>. Further investigation typically reveals that they have indeed been talking with their regulatory agency, board of directors, franchise owner, shift manager, teacher, playground monitor, or whatever.

With that said, though... if it were my game, the answer is, "No, I would feel no qualms about applying a different standard of behavior [read: stricter expectations and/or harsher responses] to F2P accounts than to paid subscriptions." Because snerts happen. AOL's free disk/free time proved that to a fare-thee-well.

Why shouldn't F2P AFK Scripters be on a zero tolerance policy? They've got no real skin in the game, it takes 5 seconds to roll up another character and start scripting.

Still, if what you are claiming is true, you shouldn't have to worry "Because I'm not an AFK scripter" as you put it. If there was lag, the game isn't accepting your input, not sure how a crash would get you a warning either. A decent GM would give you ample opportunity to respond to a script check, especially if a permaban is on the other side.

That being said, POLICY 18 does not differentiate between subscription levels, so to me, that means they are treated equally in terms of penalties. If the policy has changed, it should be updated to reflect that.

. . . and I'd still kind of like to see the official response.

Not that I disagree with anyone - no, wait. . .pick yourselves up, relax. Really, it's ok. . .

Doug

To Lystra - Why don't you shove everything in your locker Arctal-style so you never risk misplacing it, and then walk around with a heavy backpack and a dagger you got off sea nymphs? That made zero sense, and wasn't the point. My toys make my game more fun. A hedgehog here, a duck there, a high-end container for a burger gnome. All things that add small benefits that make you smile while playing. Walking around with a heavy backpack may be all you. It isn't all me. Simple as that. I want to know what the restrictions are. I'm not trying to get around them.

To Penningtonb1 - I want to know what the restrictions are. I'm not trying to get around them.

To Kronious - If you're running a script, and you crash, the game keeps going. Without you. If your internet suddenly bombs out, your character does not leave immediately. In fact, if it's a true crash, you stay in game somewhere between 10 and 30 minutes. I know, because sitting at a merchant playing two accounts, crashing out, coming back on 1, and then watching the other sit there AFK until he crashed out. In rest mode, mind you, so he stayed until the character, I assume, desynced from the server. If you're running a script, it keeps inputting for a time. Not a situation I'd want to risk on a zero tolerance policy with special items. And I have read POLICY 18. I agree it looks pretty cut and dry. But I as well wanted a GM to respond so I know exactly where they stand, in case the POLICY has simply not been updated quite yet.

Why are you guys coming here and answering the question like you have any kind of authority to give an official response to a policy question?

Maybe curb your irrational anger at somebody who uses scripts and let, I don't know, a SIMU employee answer questions about SIMU policy.

<<Do I think F2P restrictions on scripting need to be MORE not less? Yes, yes, yes - did I mention Yes? You are playing for FREE. As Kronius said, it only takes a few minutes to roll up another free account and go merrily on your scripting way, depriving PAYING players of resources, whether they be items in game, a few more hamsters to keep the servers running, or actual GM time. It's like demanding additional free scoops of ice cream>>


You have admitted to being caught AFK scripting multiple times. Perhaps it is YOU, who should face more restriction. And LOL @ depriving paying players of resources.


<<Between Krakii, Kronius, Sepher and myself, we've got a considerable amount of knowledge under our belts - a half-hearted guess would be 60 years total play? We've discussed these very same topics with staff in person, over IM, email, and on these boards for the past 20-some years. The wiki that is linked to from the front page was originally named Krakiipedia - for a very good reason, the man's an amazing resource of information about the game. We may not be on staff, but this is not exactly a private conversation between the OP and Simutronics. If OP posted his question to feedback@simutronics.com then there would be no open discussion. These forums are just one of the ways that we as players can argue for or against policy change, and how the game moves forward. >>


Even with all of that "knowledge", you're still not staff, and nothing you say is more than opinion. You might try acting less like a know-it-all and let someone official chime in with an answer.


As it stands, Policy 8 states what the rules are, without any exceptions or special rules for F2P accounts.

>You have admitted to being caught AFK scripting multiple times. Perhaps it is YOU, who should face more restriction. And LOL @ depriving paying players of resources.

Let's explore this for a moment, shall we? I'm restricted just like everyone else is by policy. If I violate it and am caught, I expect to pay the price, which is to be expected. I did the crime, I did the time, just like in real life. Crazy huh? What you're suggesting is that somehow, years after the fact and the punishment has been served, I should pay MORE. That's absurd, and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting it.

The game that you see now is a result of +20 years of coding, and while Krakii is more of the math wiz, lets do some basic figuring here.

20 years = 7300 days. If we give a rough estimate of 5 reports per day of AFK scripting, that's 36,500 reports. Using our 5 minute average amount of time (probably quite incorrect, because I'm not factoring in feedback complaints, phone calls to staff in billing, etc.) we're at 182500 minutes, which is roughly 3000 hours. That's basically a year and a half working at a 9-5 job. That time could be spent coding things for our enjoyment, making F2P better, bringing Savants online, finishing guilds, spell lists, and that's really just the tip of the iceberg.

If I fail an AFK check as an F2P, then what do I lose? Little to nothing. Currently, the only thing you can take away is the character itself. F2P from a strictly business perspective is to attract and 'flip' new players into paying subscribers, to draw old players back into the fold, or possibly even to test the viability of a particular build - and none of those need uber gear. If you have other ideas as to what the purpose of F2P is, by all means, do share.

>Even with all of that "knowledge", you're still not staff, and nothing you say is more than opinion. You might try acting less like a know-it-all and let someone official chime in with an answer.

You're upset because you're ringing the doorbell and not getting any answer, when the neighbors are telling you that the occupant is away. I'm sure that eventually a NIR will post here, but they might just be watching this drama unfold and eating popcorn. Why would they do that? Probably because it's the most argued subject out there, while the well-meaning people (those darn neighbors, what do they know!) who try to explain in polite terms get insulted by oh-so-charming members of society who feel entitled to something that they shouldn't be.

>As it stands, Policy 8 states what the rules are, without any exceptions or special rules for F2P accounts.

You mean Policy 18. Policy 8 is concerning Simu's response to delays and slowdowns. ;) F2P is new, and Simu tends to be a little slow when implementing new rules for policy. This discussion may even be a part of the deciding factor of what those rules could be, so you might be able to sway the PTB to your way of thought. I'd suggest using logic, they seem to like that sort of thing.

If you want to script without being annoyed by all these pesky rules, I would suggest playing Shattered. I hear the poop fountain is marvelous in its odoriferousness this time of year!

---

Malikh runs around in little circles, nodding his head so that the wings of his yellow duck hat flap in the wind. Does he think he is going to fly or something?

<<That may seem like a very small amount of gems, but to purify properly, it takes approximately 45 seconds, to up to a minute and thirty seconds to max out a gem. So it was anywhere from seven to ten minutes of me NOT being there. Any GM would have NO problem yanking you for that. Thankfully, I have not experienced this sort of crash while hunting, but I acknowledge it CAN happen. And I want clarification. And yes, Kronius, I 100% agree that POLICY 18 needs an update, and specific clarifications on the F2P accounts especially. But I'm biased, since I want to play F2P as well as my paid account.

Just to chime in on something specifically, purifying gems is a spell that causes a beneficial outcome (beyond failures) and as such if you are caught AFK scripting it it would garner the same penalties as any other scrpting abuse policy violation. Not to point at anyone specifically, but just stating this as a clarification for any that may seem to think it isn't against policy to AFK script this specific spell.


~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er

>>These forums are just one of the ways that we as players can argue for or against policy change, and how the game moves forward.

There is no arguing for or against policy changes going on, there is simply people overstepping themselves and trying to speak for SIMU on a policy matter.

I've been playing this game for over a decade too, you're not special there. I'm curious how you've been discussing policy regarding F2P accounts with staff for 20-some years.

It was quite simple. I play the iPad while I'm sitting in my computer chair at my computer.

Anyone that can get Gemstone to work on an iPad, or any sort of tablet device, with any sort of efficiency, is an amazing person and I want their autograph.

<<<Anyone that can get Gemstone to work on an iPad, or any sort of tablet device, with any sort of efficiency, is an amazing person and I want their autograph.>>>

I do it all the time. The best method is simply to connect to my desktop via TeamViewer. I get full access to macros, scripts and even both monitors so I can easily swap between two characters. It's a free solution that works great.

I have also successfully played on my iPad via the web portal on Chrome. It took a little prep time to set up macros, but it was quite playable and enjoyable. Obviously, it's not the full game experience we're accustomed to, but it can work. Unless, of course, you're so totally dependent upon scripts that you can't play the game any other way.

~ GtG

>>First, I was explaining to LEDBETTERM why the people who responded might know a bit about the game

What you failed to explain is why the people who responded think that they have the authority to answer questions about new policy matters simply because they have played the game for a long time. I can paste billing info from March 1998 but I still won't be SIMU staff.

We are in the process of updating POLICY 18. We would have had this sooner, but there were a few new tools we had to build that has been delaying it. I will answer this in the next few days over in the policy discussion area of the forums.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

<<To Kronius - I was running a gem purifying script with a bard. I had a friend picking boxes at the table enmasse while this was happening, and we both happened to be playing clash of clans on our mobile devices. *Me on iPad, him on whatever he's on*. I said I crashed, blayaddayaddablah. He said I was still going. He counted 7 gems that I purified before I came back into the game.>>

Either you didn't actually crash, or user error. In fact, the scenario in which you described could have gotten you a warning anyway. You claim that you were playing clash of clans on your iPad while your in-game character was scripting gems. The very first sentence of POLICY 18 states:

<<If your attention is not on the game window, you should log out of the game or stop ALL SCRIPTED activities (including but not limited to: artisan skill use, guild skill use, healing, lock picking, purifying gems, spell casting, hunting, and playing) to avoid being warned. >>

How could your attention have been on the iPad and the game window simultaneously?

Obviously, this is an extreme scenario, but according to POLICY 18 it is a warn-able offense.

<<There is absolutely no way that your third-party software scripts can continue to run if your system crashes/internet connection is lost. And you will be warned for those cases, every single time. If you honestly feel this happens to you, stop scripting or stop using third-party software.>>

If you run scripts, the best, easiest, and safest solution is to run scripts that do not loop. At the end of your script, instead of looping back to the top to start all over again, put in a prompt that requires you to do something (anything) to make the script start over. Type 74 to continue. Hit F3 to continue. Whatever you want it to require you to do, just make it so that you have to actually DO something.

This way, if you lose your connection to the game and for some unfathomable reason your scripts mysteriously and magically continue to run; if your kid falls down the stairs and you have to rush off to the hospital and the last thing on your mind was stopping your script in GS and logging out; if your brother stabs you in the shoulder with a fork as a joke and you have to go to the hospital; if something explodes outside and you want to run see what happened and in your rush you forget to stop your script; if you're paying attention but you're on a new medication and you just fell asleep; or one of a million other possible things happens that makes you stop paying attention to the game window, your script will eventually stop and wait on your prompt to continue. Problem solved.

(And yes, those were all actual explanations used for why people were caught scripting (and all of them were explanations given for when they got caught the 3rd, 4th, or 5th time.)


Solomon

PS - Just don't set up a trigger that auto-responds to the prompt. That sort of defeats the purpose.

I just snarfed, enough said....

~ Valyrka ~
Ta'Illistim
Elves
Dark Elves

>>A non-looping script would still save you!


Heh ... that was funny.



Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)