Workshop versus node versus both 12/24/2017 04:17 AM CST
According to the wiki, being "on an earthnode or in a workshop provides a bonus to enchanting". My question is about the "or" part. If a room is a workshop and an earthnode, are the bonuses cumulative or does only the higher (being a workshop, I assume) apply? Or are all workshops also earthnodes making my question not really make sense to start with?

Thanks!
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/24/2017 09:21 AM CST
A better way to think of it is that not all earthnodes are workshops. But all workshops are earthnodes.

At least, in my experience. I wouldn't say the question doesn't make sense, but you're really asking the same thing.

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/26/2017 10:57 AM CST
>According to the wiki, being "on an earthnode or in a workshop provides a bonus to enchanting". My question is about the "or" part. If a room is a workshop and an earthnode, are the bonuses cumulative or does only the higher (being a workshop, I assume) apply? Or are all workshops also earthnodes making my question not really make sense to start with?

I'm not sure about the cumulative part. I'm guessing no, i.e. a regular node is worth +50 and a workshop is worth +75. Those are also random numbers I made up.

Bottom line though, do your enchants in a workshop if you want to maximize the bonus. All workshops are nodes, so you'll never get a better bonus on a regular node than you will in a workshop.

~ Methais
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 04:21 PM CST
> Bottom line though, do your enchants in a workshop if you want to maximize the bonus.

The question came from designing a private property and whether there was additional (enchanting) value to making the property's earth node the same room as the workshop. It sounds like, no, there's no compelling reason to put both in the same room.
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 06:52 PM CST
>>additional (enchanting) value to making the property's earth node the same room as the workshop.

Restating. . . all workshops are earthnodes.

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 08:39 PM CST


>all workshops are earthnodes

I don't know the official definition of "earthnode," but if it includes faster regeneration of mana, that is not true. The sorcerer guild workshops were installed without that capability.
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 09:09 PM CST
>>The sorcerer guild workshops were installed without that capability.

Were? Or are? I think they were 'corrected' to grant bonuses sometime recently, no?

Should take a wizard with you, they can tell. ;) And if it is, but it isn't (earthnode / mana regen) that might be a bug that should be corrected.

[Wizard Guild, Workshop]
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast
>sense
You study your surroundings and use your keen knowledge of the arcane. It quickly becomes evident that this room is a strong magical workshop.
You sense a convergence in the flows of essence and gather that this place must be a natural earthnode.
You sense the distinct harmonies of a mana pool and detect an exceptional accumulation of mana.
(full on node mana generation)


[House Arcane, Dagmar's Workshop]
You notice a shimmering crystal ball resting on a pedestal in the center of the room and a heavy oak door.
Obvious exits: none
>sense
You study your surroundings and use your keen knowledge of the arcane. It quickly becomes evident that this room is not a magical workshop.
You sense a convergence in the flows of essence and gather that this place must be a natural earthnode.
You sense the distinct harmonies of a mana pool and detect an incredible accumulation of mana.
(full on node mana generation)


[Icemule Trace, Town Center]
You notice the usual shenanigans.
Also here: The usual hoodlums.
Obvious paths: north, east, south, west
>sense
You study your surroundings and use your keen knowledge of the arcane. It quickly becomes evident that this area is not a magical workshop.
You sense a convergence in the flows of essence and gather that this place must be a natural earthnode.
You do not detect the distinct harmonies of a mana pool.


NB: I realize there are no absolutes and possibly always exceptions, but everywhere I go, and everywhere I look, including old mana pool locations (questionable) and private workshops, this is what I experience. I think sorcerers should pretty much have some form of earthnode or planar nexus or something!

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 09:22 PM CST


>Were? Or are? I think they were 'corrected' to grant bonuses sometime recently, no?

no, they were corrected to be workshops. they are not nodes. I guess the $1100 private properties are built in the same manner.
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 09:31 PM CST
>>I guess the $1100 private properties are built in the same manner.

Well, it will be interesting to see, I guess.

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 10:18 PM CST
Per Kynlee on Discord:
[11:06 PM] Tysong: we know we get to pick an earthnode location with our property, but most enchanting workshops are natural earthnodes themselves. So he's just wondering if by selecting an enchanting workshop the following questions:
1.) is the workshop considered a natural earthnode too?
2.) if it is considered a natural earthnode, do we still get a free earthnode to place someplace else in the property, or does the workshop tie up said earthnode choice by default
[11:11 PM] Tysong: the issue Doug sees is that in game enchanting workshops aren't ALL natural earthnodes. Like the workshop in Illistim isn't an earthnode. The one within the wizard guild is, but not the one within the Artificer Tower.
[11:10 PM] Kynlee: You get 1 earthnode and 1 enchanting workshop
[11:11 PM] Kynlee: I don't set them up as earthnodes unless the owner requests they be set up that way
[11:11 PM] Ragz 🔥: so if I were to request my workshop was an earthnode, that'd be the workshop and the earthnode
[11:12 PM] Kynlee: Yes, Ragz


So basically a workshop DOES NOT have to be an earthnode. It can vary based on how it was configured. And NO, the private enchanting workshop on a private property doesn't get a free earthnode, therefor giving you TWO earthnodes in a private property. If you want the workshop to be the node you have to use the 1 earthnode choice for that room.
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/29/2017 10:31 PM CST
Thanks for the follow-up, WHIGHTCNIGHT!

And good call, V!

And we know (or think we know) that earth nodes are +40 to an enchant attempt, public workshops (guilds / houses) are +100. I wonder just how good the private workshop will be. :)

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/30/2017 06:26 AM CST
>> And we know (or think we know) that earth nodes are +40 to an enchant attempt, public workshops (guilds / houses) are +100. I wonder just how good the private workshop will be. :)

Which brings me back to my other question then - do bonuses stack or are, as the wiki is worded, does only one or the other apply. My intent was to have the earthnode in public part of the property and the workshop in a private part. With a wizard main, though, I'm don't know I'd give up enchanting bonuses in order to do so.

I guess it's time to see what I can figure out from existing workshops....
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/30/2017 08:24 AM CST
Doug
And we know (or think we know) that earth nodes are +40 to an enchant attempt, public workshops (guilds / houses) are +100. I wonder just how good the private workshop will be. :)


Private workshops are twice as effective as public workshops, but only the owner of that workshop receives any bonus from it. Your number for guild/house works is incorrect.

PROPHETQ
Which brings me back to my other question then - do bonuses stack or are, as the wiki is worded, does only one or the other apply.


They do not stack.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/30/2017 08:36 AM CST
They do not stack.


Thank you!
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/30/2017 10:26 AM CST
>>Your number for guild/house works is incorrect.

Good to know, thanks Estild!

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/30/2017 03:04 PM CST
>Private workshops are twice as effective as public workshops, but only the owner of that workshop receives any bonus from it. Your number for guild/house works is incorrect. -- Gamemaster Estild

Are you saying that the +100 wizard guild workshop bonus is incorrect? I did extensive testing on the bonuses using the known material difficulty modifiers, encumbrance and the ensorcell difficulty table messaging as controls. I just tested a public workshop vs wizard guild workshop. Based on the 925 cast messaging the difference when measured with encumbrance indicated that the public workshop = (wizard guild workshop - 20) or 10% encumbrance. The familiar bonus stacks with the other bonuses.

These are the results I have:

Familiar+20
Earthnode+40
Public Workshop+80
Wizard Guild Workshop+100
Wizard Guild Workshop w/familiar+120



Mark
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/31/2017 11:26 AM CST
>> Wizard Guild Workshop +100

While I didn't test 'public workshops', this is the value I was able to confirm for the wizard guild workshop on multiple tests well.

-- Robert

Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/31/2017 11:42 AM CST
It's possible this was the response because I lumped them together, but Estild wanted to give a very precise amount to the private workshop to complete that portion of the research.

So,

40
80
100
and 160

If I'm reading Estild's note right. Who knows, though. . . definitely ambiguous! :)

Doug
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/31/2017 11:50 AM CST
Mark
Are you saying that the +100 wizard guild workshop bonus is incorrect?


Robert
While I didn't test 'public workshops', this is the value I was able to confirm for the wizard guild workshop on multiple tests well.


I assume you're both comparing the difference from a non-node to a guild workshop. If you compare the number to a node vs. a guild workshop, you should be able to get the determine the actual number. This is really getting into semantics, but being on a node doesn't provide a bonus, instead it actually prevents a penalty (for not being on a node). Not a huge issue, but if you do incorporate the non-penalty into the guild workshop bonus, it also needs to be incorporated into the public and private workshop bonuses. But when I said the private workshop bonus is twice as effective as the public workshop bonus, I was not including the negation of the non-node penalty.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Workshop versus node versus both 12/31/2017 12:24 PM CST
Not on a node: -40
Earthnode: 0
Public Workshop: 40
Wizard Guild Workshop: 60
Private Workshop: 80

Familiar present: +20

-- Robert

Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
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