>> >>An etherial triton sentry cast his spell of doom on me as soon as I walked in the room and BOOM! I'd like a chance to occasionally turn the tables on these evil doomcasters so how about modifying stone skin so that if has a small chance to reflect spells back at the caster so I can see how they like it!

>> I'm not sure it fits for stone skin to do that. Our suspension of belief when it comes to lore training only goes so far! Maybe if it were water or ice skin you'd have a case!

Makes sense! So as a future idea for stone skin maybe look at turning it to Elemental Skin (with a sexier name) where the element chosen determines which effect you get with spell reflection being a possibility for water.


>> >>The greater water elementals have some nasty killer shoop-de-whoop ability which seems to insta-kill me far too frequently. How about enhancing Temporal Reversion so that it works against these types of attacks as well (hidden warding roll? Maybe it already does but not sure that I've EVER seen it kick in for the water elemental insta-kill attack.

>> This may actually be a bug if it doesn't help, have you bugged it so we can take a closer look? I'm not up to speed on the "shoop-de-whoop" maneuver.

Sometime being 'cute' hurts my clarity. It's not the whirlpool as someone suggested (you can simply kill the whirlpool or leave the room) but I'll dig up a log example so it's clear which attack I am referring to. Basically they send a jet of water at you and it seems to have a pretty decent death-crit chance.

>> You mean like a helm?

Haha. I mean like a magic helms which has some potential for 1) RP/Cool factor and 2) works over and above any armor you are wearing. Mechanically I was thinking it would reduce the crit level of any hit to the head/eyes by 1 or 2 ranks (effectively putting a ceiling of 7 or 8 on max crit achievable for those locations).

>> >>I'm far too attached to my collectors edition runestaves to actually take any of them on an actual hunt. How about teaching my familiar to FETCH my runestave and return it to me should I drop it somewhere?

>> Interesting suggestion, but wouldn't it be better suited for ACs?'

Feel free to steal the idea for ACs since I play a ranger too and am looking for some additional animal companion love down the road. But in my mind, that brings up the question of what do you (the current dev team) feel is well suited for wizard familiars? They've been so 'generic' and 'minorly useful' for lack of a better term (one will come to my right after I click Post I am sure) that I really don't know what wizard familiars are expected to be in Gemstone.

I'll save familiars for a post-ELR discussion topic for now. Back to the topic at hand! So I get your point, BUT, I still want to play with my collectors edition runestaves so what if I could:

A) Add an 'enchant' to a runestave via enchanting that made it a returning runestaff? (925 based solution)
B) Cast a temporary spell on my runestave that would allow me to recall it (even across a large distance such as anyplace in the current local area) 1x for the duration of the spell (meaning if I died or was dispelled the bond would still be broken).
C) Summon an elemental staff (similar to a bard sung weapon) that had an appropriate flare based on my Elt. attunement or Elt. lore training and enchant based on EMC training (or something). Staff will remain until dropped/disarmed and will then need to be recast. This doesn't let me play with my staff collection (boo) but it has cool factor so might be a good alternative.

-- Robert

"All wizards are beginners; some of us have just been beginning longer!"

That's 435 robert. It's a magical attack so 540 doesn't work. Although that restriction makes zero sense.

>>Considering this thing is taking up TWO high level professional circle slots, it would be nice if it was improved. Saving weapons would be great. Adjacent teleporting would be great. Hell, even making it so finding people worked more than 50% of the time would be an improvement. Albeit a weak one.

Granted, this isn't relevant to the whole conversation, but I miss my Telekinetic Disarm and that's all I can think of when reading your suggestion of "saving weapons". Back in the day....lots of lost weapons/shields when folks were hunting Shan or even Bonespear out in Solhaven.....pop out to the hunting area, track down the item and strip it from their item grabbing paws and then pop out before they can even react.

Out of curiosity: Wasn't Telekinetic Disarm supposed to be moved to one of the "new" class spell lists? Did it actually make the transition or was it a spell that was dumped? I don't see it on a list anywhere, unless it's been completely renamed and I've overlooked it.

Maybe the spell could make a comeback to Wizards? You can put in 915, move Weapon Fire to 935 and add the following to the spell. I'd like to have an easy to way help remove a weapon from a critter again without necessarily blasting them into oblivion should I be out helping recover a weapon or helping someone hunt:

935 - Weapon Fire
CAST at others - works like it currently does; a chance to fail even with a successful CS strike, but flares have a chance to crit
CHANNEL at others - no chance of failure on successful CS check, but lower flares and fuses/binds the weapon to the target until the duration ends (no chance of a critical flare)
Self CAST or INCANT - adds 50% chance to flare with your highest trained elemental lore over 15 swings with your weapon. Add +1 swing every 20 ranks of all known EL training. (if you have 40 ranks in Air, that's +2 swings and if you have 60 ranks in Earth, that's another +3 swings for a total of 15+5 per cast). This spell can be used on an already flaring weapon (chance for double flares! yeah!). Once you hit 200 ranks total that gives you 15+10 swings with a 50% to flare. You could also use 411 in conjunction with 935, take a normal weapon, cast 411 on it and then cast 935. You now have a cheap 4x weapon with possible double flares for 15-25 swings (depending on lore ranks).

I'm off on a tangent now.....but I miss my Telekinetic Disarm :-( Sorry. Everyone back to the normal discussion.

-Drumpel

<<<Oh wait, Bards get GROUP HASTE. And yes, in fact it does offer nearly the same reduction in RT that Wizards can achieve, FOR THE WHOLE GROUP. (Whilst attacking).>>>

No, 1035 does not offer, "nearly the same reduction in RT that wizards can achieve." Not even close. With significant lore training (read: capped) a bard can offer -3 seconds, total. Haste buries Tonis for RT reduction. The longer the RT, the greater the benefit. I don't know how you can even make such a comparison.

<<<Please stop trying to steal Wizard spells for your other characters.>>>

That makes absolutely no sense. I'd love for you to explain exactly how you think I'm doing that.

~ GtG

I've been lurking quite a bit, and biting my tongue, but I can't this one quietly.

"
You guys are getting caught up in preserving status quo though, and I've been singing the same tune from the start. If 506, 515, and 519 were to disappear tomorrow, what would you want in their place? You (as a class) have never fully answered that question I asked on day 1, but we have 500+ tweak suggestions to 506/515.
"

No Way! there have been MULTIPLE good/excellent suggestions. My favorite 2 suggestions deal with bolt spells, prolly because I'm a bolting wizard (Rumbletum):

1. Aiming bolts. The relevant skill is called spell aiming, for crying out loud! The disparity between damage and/or crits between a weapon (aimed) and a bolt spell(un-aimable) are huge. The ability to aim a bolt spells fits flavor and balance wise....

2. Bolt element choices. There is no reason why we have the different elements represented at different spells levels and damage factors. Wizards should have 3 bolt spells, at different mana/DF ratios: minor bolt , moderate bolt, and major bolt. Maybe the moderate bolt could be the ball spells. These bolts should be attunable, and swappable. a fire wizard should have a more powerfull fire bolt than a water wizards fire bolt, but the water wizard should be just as viable shooting water bolts. As it stands now, a fire wizards fire bolt (906) out damages a water wizards bolt (903) by a large scale.

These two changes would make different flavor wizards viable, without the use of the current 3 key spells (rapid fire, haste, immolation).

You want to know what to put in their place? how about 506 turns into the catalyst to change elements on your spells (channel 506 fire). 515 could be a emergency spell, how about Earth to Mud, which causes a moderate round time to all non friendly targets in the room (scalable with more water lore), and honestly I like the dual purposes 519 idea, please keep that.

Rumbletum

These two changes would make different flavor wizards viable, without the use of the current 3 key spells (rapid fire, haste, immolation).

You want to know what to put in their place? how about 506 turns into the catalyst to change elements on your spells (channel 506 fire). 515 could be a emergency spell, how about Earth to Mud, which causes a moderate round time to all non friendly targets in the room (scalable with more water lore), and honestly I like the dual purposes 519 idea, please keep that.

Rumbletum

For Koar's Sake! No way!

<<<Pretty simple, 5 seconds, minus 3 seconds equal 2 seconds. And 5 seconds, minus 4 seconds equals ... 1 second! OMG, MATH!111!!111!>>>


Ooh, snarky. Okay, Mr. Wizard. Try comparing Tonis to Haste against a 10 sec. RT. Or a 30 sec. RT. The difference is not even close. When it comes to RT reduction, Haste rules. I'm not saying Song of Tonis isn't great. But it's also a 35th level spell that requires 75 ranks of air lore for a grand total of -3 seconds, maximum. Furthermore, you're changing the context of my post. You're focusing only on the combat application, when my comments explicitly referred to numerous non-combat applications. Haste significantly outshines Tonis in every single one of those applications. So aside from snark, you've got nothing.

<<<Again, pretty simple. You cheer for every Wizard nerf and suggest taking away our spells so everyone has access to them.>>>

This doesn't deserve a response, but I'm going to give you one, anyway. I do not "cheer" for every "wizard nerf." The fact of the matter is, there have not been any wizard nerfs, yet. Not. One. All that have been released so far are enhancements, although you wouldn't know it from most of the responses. The "nerfs" you speak of are still being reviewed.

Secondly, please show me exactly where I ever suggested "taking away our spells so everyone has access to them." That is asinine. What are you, 12??

~ GtG

Ooh, snarky. Okay, Mr. Wizard. Try comparing Tonis to Haste against a 10 sec. RT. Or a 30 sec. RT.

~ GtG

Why would any reasonable person do such a thing? Nobody is swinging/shooting/ambushing with 10 seconds RT, or 30 seconds RT. Most people swing at 5s, shoot at 3/4s and ambush in 5/6s. A Bard running 1035 could allow 1000, no wait, an infinite number of archers to shoot 1s insta-kill eye shots.

The difference is_not_even_close when it comes to the power of 1035 vs 506. 1035 is infinitely better.

And, I'm not changing your post, I'm just pointing out how you're wrong. It'll be alright.

Secondly, please show me exactly where I ever suggested "taking away our spells so everyone has access to them."

Gee, I dunno, probably when you said is it fair that Wizards are the only profession who can reduce RT. You're insinuating that every profession should have access to our spell.

Wouldn't enhancives be the easier route?

<<<Why would any reasonable person do such a thing? Nobody is swinging/shooting/ambushing with 10 seconds RT, or 30 seconds RT. Most people swing at 5s, shoot at 3/4s and ambush in 5/6s. A Bard running 1035 could allow 1000, no wait, an infinite number of archers to shoot 1s insta-kill eye shots.>>>

You do understand there's more to the game than combat? Long RTs actually exist. Foraging, searching, lockpicking, disarming, loresinging, eating herbs, enchanting, healing, fletching...and so on...all incur significant RT. Wizards are the only class that can innately and significantly reduce RT common to all characters. This is not (only) about combat.

Song of Tonis is great, but it is not "infinitely" better than Haste. It's different from Haste. It has different applications than Haste. And again, it's also 29 levels higher than haste, and requires a lot more lore for a much lower reduction in RT.

You are also assigning an intent to me that is simply not true. I never even vaguely suggested "every profession" should have access to "our" spell. I was pointing out a perspective that may or may not be relevant to the discussion. I believe I even phrased it in the form of a question. Your defensive knee-jerk reaction, while typical, is not based in reality.

~ GtG

Don't forget that haste+enchant was deemed too powerful and thus haste does not reduce RT associated with enchanting.

I guess that's the benefit of being the Masters of Time!

Other professions are welcome to reroll. Or, if we're stealing abilities from one profession and giving them to another. I'll take 211, 215, 319, 711, 720, 1030, and 616. I would love to have essentially free TD through 735 while making millions of silvers.

@Firephoenix's post... Post 709

You dropped a ton of values that are flat out erroneous in that post. However, an AS of 518 versus DS of 350 using a maul against chainmail, aiming for the head with 70% accuracy will crit kill approximately 73.01% of the time. This is mainly because you're not at a point where your AS will guarantee rank 9 criticals across all D100 rolls.

You're mistaken on what crit divisors are, and your critical kill thresholds are off for a maul.

The baseline critical kill rates that I was using for critical table evaluation purposes earlier were assuming a crit tier 9 raw damage. I utilized the evaluation from a referenced post to determine the overall likelihood of hitting various body parts when performing unaimed shots, and compiled the likelihood of hitting a particular body part, critical randomization, and fatal critical thresholds, to determine an overall percentage chance of a Tier 9 critical resulting in death if completely unaimed.

It gives a great baseline comparison of MOST critical tables... What it doesn't take into account are critical tables that have critical deaths down to rank 4, such as piercing, which are advantageous by reducing the minimum critical requirement for guaranteed death... But evaluating all critical outcomes across all critical results takes up too much retail space, and dealing with these forums tabling structure would get old fast to reproduce the results.


How did I run YOUR simulation so quickly? Well, I've created an excel workbook that I've been using for damage modeling purposes. I even worked on it today, while broadcasting on my twitch channel.

YOU HAVEN'T REALLY LIVED UNTIL NOT ONLY HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED THE GREATNESS OF A LORD WHIRLIN HUNTING TWITCH VIDEO, BUT ALSO A LORD WHIRLIN DOING EXCEL WORK CRUNCHING NUMBERS FOR GEMSTONE VIDEO.

http://www.twitch.tv/lordwhirlin/profile/past_broadcasts

Yes... I'm advertising... I've also hunted with my ranged warmage, dualboxed with my sorcerer, hunted solo with my sorcerer, and taken a level 80 paladin hunting... all while narrating in the last week. If you're going to be an educated Wizard forum contributor, it helps!

~Whirlin

You know, it actually is possible to conduct a productive conversation without being a snarky twit. You should give it a try some time.

~ GtG

Yes, name-calling is an excellent example of a productive conversation.

>Those are the only ones that come to mind offhand... I don't think it's as pervasive a problem... but I am rather annoyed at 1602 having smaller seeds than us.

You should also note 1602 is less effective than 504 as far as the RT caused. 1602 has a flat RT adder vs 504 having a scaled effect...they are not the same spell

>Don't forget that haste+enchant was deemed too powerful and thus haste does not reduce RT associated with enchanting.

Enchanting round time and pour round time used to be 60 seconds with a possible reduction via Haste. As of 2009, they are a flat 20 seconds. It was a large reduction for everyone!

___
ASGM of Events and Festivals

You know, the sarcastic part of me keeps thinking, "I sure wish the GMs would come to Paladins and tell us we can't have 1second swing times and 0 second cast RT.

Then maybe we could leave a 1000 ranting posts and get new stuff too."

You know, the sarcastic part of me keeps thinking, "I sure wish the GMs would come to Paladins and tell us we can't have 1second swing times and 0 second cast RT.

Then maybe we could leave a 1000 ranting posts and get new stuff too."

A more accurate comparison would be extreme nerfs to 1625 (which, lets face it, deserves it), casting in armor, and general weapon AS. Then getting the RT change of 1602 in recompense.

I would happily trade power levels between paladins and wizards right now, don't be crazy.

>It's too quiet around here this morning. I don't know what to do with myself.

Go water your lawn?

:D

If 'The Watering' goes on much longer he is going to kill all his grass.

Tal.