Last night I was trying to identify what class defining abilities set warriors apart from other classes using weapon based melee. We have lower training costs for sure and access to tons of CMANs(that we either cant use due to limited points or are impractical) but in terms of what we bring to the combat experience that is unique escapes me. Rogues: best ambusher, vanish; Rangers: ambushing, spells; Bards: Self-Haste, multiple flares, spells; Paladins: highest AS, DF, multiple flares, sanctify, spells; Warriors: Redux? Berserk? Shield use? Training costs?
We cannot do more damage than the other classes nor are our tactics more effective or that different than what others can do. Granted combat isnt going to be that different in gemstone but it is discouraging to realize that in an RP game other classes perform as well if not better in physical combat than warriors given the same training or gear. And two of them also have access to some of the most devastating spells in the game. Why play a warrior at that point when I could RP a warrior as any other class but have the additional perks of spells or class defining abilities.
I dont want to sound negative as I love my warrior but I now realize it is mostly because of how I imagine the character and not what he is capable of. My main goal is to create some appropriate but unique combat abilities while increasing combat effectiveness. For example Berserk is a truly amazing skill and probably the only real advantage warriors have in combat but only as a defensive tool. We do not have any offensive advantages over any other proffession that decides to pick up a weapon as long as they can 2x weapon use. Any thoughts? I will make some suggestions following this post.
CAVEMANIA
RATHBONER
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 11:18 AM CDT
>For example Berserk is a truly amazing skill and probably the only real advantage warriors have in combat but only as a defensive tool.
Warriors have the best Mstrike, and berserk is one of the ways of exploiting it. If you are only using it defensively, you are missing out on the biggest melee damage dealer available to a warrior.
Warriors have the best Mstrike, and berserk is one of the ways of exploiting it. If you are only using it defensively, you are missing out on the biggest melee damage dealer available to a warrior.
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 12:43 PM CDT
<Warriors have the best Mstrike, and berserk is one of the ways of exploiting it. If you are only using it defensively, you are missing out on the biggest melee damage dealer available to a warrior.>
This.
Also, I like the Stance Mastery idea.
<Me, I'd like to see the ability to add some permanent resistances/weighting and/or to craft armor, shields, and ranged weapons.>
This has been mentioned alot in the past. I'd decouple the armor crafting skill request to a revamped Artisan/Forging system, and feel as any approved resistance/weighting ability would be very slight (like somewhat at best), perhaps requesting a temporary buff to DF, like Paladins have for spells but we would apply (to any melee weapon type), via an Armor type skill. I think something like that is more likely to get approved and is a martial sharpening/weighting (for blunts) type skill and professional utility skill helpful for most classes.
This.
Also, I like the Stance Mastery idea.
<Me, I'd like to see the ability to add some permanent resistances/weighting and/or to craft armor, shields, and ranged weapons.>
This has been mentioned alot in the past. I'd decouple the armor crafting skill request to a revamped Artisan/Forging system, and feel as any approved resistance/weighting ability would be very slight (like somewhat at best), perhaps requesting a temporary buff to DF, like Paladins have for spells but we would apply (to any melee weapon type), via an Armor type skill. I think something like that is more likely to get approved and is a martial sharpening/weighting (for blunts) type skill and professional utility skill helpful for most classes.
ALSTHAR
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 01:28 PM CDT
<<Also, I like the Stance Mastery idea.>>
I like the stance mastery idea too but I always thought it made more sense for monks :D
I like the stance mastery idea too but I always thought it made more sense for monks :D
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 05:20 PM CDT
I have to disagree about using berserk offensively. It becomes a death sentence if you run into the wrong creature. Which situation would we be able to exploit it? Bandits? Warcamps? I would also argue that bards have the best mstrike. They cant 2x MOC and dont have access to dervish but tonis not dropping after mstrikes and the chance for double flares is pretty good.
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 05:40 PM CDT
It remains situational (by design - it would be boring if it was the only tactic used) but as you advance the situations expand. It is a powerful offensive tool, especially coupled with the addition of mstrike.
Warcamps and even bandits to an extent were much longer, slower, more difficult tasks when warriors had less ability to handle swarms. Of course, you can miss out on loot (depending how fast you kill vs incoming swarms), which is a compromise.
Warcamps and even bandits to an extent were much longer, slower, more difficult tasks when warriors had less ability to handle swarms. Of course, you can miss out on loot (depending how fast you kill vs incoming swarms), which is a compromise.
RATHBONER
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 06:27 PM CDT
Bandits make good berserk fodder, particularly if they are just standing there after being bellowed. Berserk speeds up mstrike more than Tonis.
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 06:37 PM CDT
I'll try and be more optimistic about berserk and bandits are the perfect situation to use it they have light armor and jump out in offensive stance which is the best scenario. I still have trouble seeing how to use berserk offensively in any hunting ground I hunt. Plane 4 or the scatter? Never going to happen. Matter of fact the last time my warrior died was because I tried to berserk out of a 3 round stun and accidentally started to berserk on plane 4 and died when I mstriked a cerebralite after getting dispelled.
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 09:48 PM CDT
<Matter of fact the last time my warrior died was because I tried to berserk out of a 3 round stun and accidentally started to berserk on plane 4 and died when I mstriked a cerebralite after getting dispelled.>
Ah, fun times. Don't forget binds stripped by the Rift and more cloak of shadow pain. Always a gamble on whether to try and berserk out or see if it will go away.
Yea the Rift isn't a good situation to offensively berserk.
Ah, fun times. Don't forget binds stripped by the Rift and more cloak of shadow pain. Always a gamble on whether to try and berserk out or see if it will go away.
Yea the Rift isn't a good situation to offensively berserk.
TROUBLE13
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/21/2015 11:38 PM CDT
While not on purpose I've berserked a few times in the scatter, it has yet to kill me. While the rift isn't the best place to berserk, OTF and Nelemar make great places for it. I tend to avoid it because I love loot too much.
INSURANCE
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/22/2015 05:06 PM CDT
>This has been mentioned alot in the past. I'd decouple the armor crafting skill request to a revamped Artisan/Forging system, and feel as any approved resistance/weighting ability would be very slight (like somewhat at best), perhaps requesting a temporary buff to DF, like Paladins have for spells but we would apply (to any melee weapon type), via an Armor type skill. I think something like that is more likely to get approved and is a martial sharpening/weighting (for blunts) type skill and professional utility skill helpful for most classes.
I see where you're coming from. Other people get amazing things for a lot of effort, however, and I feel like we could get similar.
I see where you're coming from. Other people get amazing things for a lot of effort, however, and I feel like we could get similar.
CRYHEART
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/25/2015 09:37 PM CDT
>I dont want to sound negative as I love my warrior but I now realize it is mostly because of how I imagine the character and not what he is capable of. My main goal is to create some appropriate but unique combat abilities while increasing combat effectiveness. For example Berserk is a truly amazing skill and probably the only real advantage warriors have in combat but only as a defensive tool. We do not have any offensive advantages over any other proffession that decides to pick up a weapon as long as they can 2x weapon use. Any thoughts? I will make some suggestions following this post.<
Combat effectiveness is indeed a necessary warrior skill. Another relevant warrior skill is to guard, defend, or use shield skill. Think of the 300 Spartans who defended and counterstriked against all those Persians. Think of Saxons and Danes who often employed a shield wall to attack.
Cryheart
MAZEIKISJ
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/25/2015 11:49 PM CDT
Everyone loves a sheltron!
-james, bristenn's player
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
CLUNK24963
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/26/2015 06:49 AM CDT
>>Everyone loves a sheltron!
Somebody had a sense of humor when they named the defenders favored martial stance "Tortoise Stance".
Turtle Up!
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
RATHBONER
Re: Warrior thoughts
04/26/2015 07:16 AM CDT
>Somebody had a sense of humor when they named the defenders favored martial stance "Tortoise Stance".
I assumed it was a straightforward reference to the Roman tactic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation
I assumed it was a straightforward reference to the Roman tactic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior thoughts
05/28/2015 10:00 AM CDT
Dont mean to bring this thread back to life but I just died due to a berserk fail and i'm still feeling annoyed. Granted I could have avoided the death here by various means and there was a bit of bad luck with the bind being dispelled but I still wish we could atleast stop berserk sooner even at a great cost. Something like 10 stamina per round of berserk that remains so anywhere from 80-10 stamina to stop it early. I dont think that could be abused. All that being said, i've discovered that the Confluence probably has the best risk/reward when using berserk since you avoid all of the movement RT and can still get the gems from all but the earth elementals. That is as long as you dont run into a room of the wrong elemental types. Here is the log:
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +609 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +4 = +108
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the fetish master's right leg!
You feel your rolaren war hammer straining back towards your foe! Taking advantage of this, you manage to effortlessly reverse your momentum and strike again!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +609 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +89 = +193
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Left hand severed at the wrist!
The fetish master is stunned!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel energized!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +604 vs DS: +508 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +20 = +141
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Strike to temple! Saved by a thick skull!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel energized!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A glistening cerebralite twists and coils its tentacles, sending tendrils of electricity crawling along the surface of its brain-like form.
R>cman tru
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +629 vs DS: +499 with AvD: +25 + 20 + d80 roll: +40 = +215
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
You hear several snaps as the fetish master's neck is broken in several places.
[You have 7 kills remaining.]
As a darkly inked fetish master slumps to the ground, the darkly lined tattoos traversing its skin lose the luminescence that had seemed to radiate from them.
A darkly inked fetish master appears less powerful.
A darkly inked fetish master seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The very powerful look leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The white light leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The deep blue glow leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The light blue glow leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
A darkly inked fetish master returns to normal color.
The powerful look leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A glistening cerebralite focuses its eye-stalks on you!
CS: +439 - TD: +342 + CvA: -21 + d100: +98 == +174
Warding failed!
An unseen force envelopes you, restricting all movement.
[ Bind: +0:14:14, 0:14:13 remaining. ]
IR>loot
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>def
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>bers
Everything around you turns red as you work yourself into a berserker's rage!
I>
[ Berserk: +0:05:00, 0:05:00 remaining. ]
A glistening cerebralite twists and coils its tentacles, sending tendrils of electricity crawling along the surface of its brain-like form.
I>
You exert your will against the forces holding you motionless but cannot seem to break them!
I>
A murky soul siphon scampers in on its crooked legs.
I>
A glistening cerebralite focuses its eye-stalks on you!
A pale, flickering nimbus coalesces around you, then vanishes in a brilliant flash!
The restricting force that envelops you dissolves away.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
>
You rage across the battlefield, striking with unrelenting fury!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
By amazing chance, the soul siphon evades the attack!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +613 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +19 = +211
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
The soul siphon is stunned!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +638 vs DS: +438 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +64 = +290
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Hard hit shatters weapon arm.
The glistening cerebralite is stunned!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +67 == +144
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +603 vs DS: +418 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +31 = +242
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +31 == +108
Warding failed!
You shudder in pain.
You take 36 damage!
R>
A haze of shadow descends, cloaking the area in a twilight that obscures sight.
R>
You rage across the battlefield, striking with unrelenting fury!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +618 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +57 = +254
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Blow to chest causes the soul siphon's heart to skip a beat.
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel healed!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +603 vs DS: +433 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +31 = +227
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Strike to the chest breaks a rib!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel healed!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +628 vs DS: +429 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +28 = +253
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Large gash to the right arm, several muscles torn.
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +88 == +165
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +593 vs DS: +429 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +57 = +247
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +65 == +142
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
The layer of protection fades away.
You feel the extra courage wane.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...
You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.
...departing in 26 mins...
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +609 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +4 = +108
... and hit for 3 points of damage!
Glancing blow to the fetish master's right leg!
You feel your rolaren war hammer straining back towards your foe! Taking advantage of this, you manage to effortlessly reverse your momentum and strike again!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +609 vs DS: +530 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +89 = +193
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Left hand severed at the wrist!
The fetish master is stunned!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel energized!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +604 vs DS: +508 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +20 = +141
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Strike to temple! Saved by a thick skull!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel energized!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A glistening cerebralite twists and coils its tentacles, sending tendrils of electricity crawling along the surface of its brain-like form.
R>cman tru
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +629 vs DS: +499 with AvD: +25 + 20 + d80 roll: +40 = +215
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
You hear several snaps as the fetish master's neck is broken in several places.
[You have 7 kills remaining.]
As a darkly inked fetish master slumps to the ground, the darkly lined tattoos traversing its skin lose the luminescence that had seemed to radiate from them.
A darkly inked fetish master appears less powerful.
A darkly inked fetish master seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The very powerful look leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The white light leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The deep blue glow leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
The light blue glow leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
A darkly inked fetish master returns to normal color.
The powerful look leaves a darkly inked fetish master.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>
A glistening cerebralite focuses its eye-stalks on you!
CS: +439 - TD: +342 + CvA: -21 + d100: +98 == +174
Warding failed!
An unseen force envelopes you, restricting all movement.
[ Bind: +0:14:14, 0:14:13 remaining. ]
IR>loot
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>def
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.
I>bers
Everything around you turns red as you work yourself into a berserker's rage!
I>
[ Berserk: +0:05:00, 0:05:00 remaining. ]
A glistening cerebralite twists and coils its tentacles, sending tendrils of electricity crawling along the surface of its brain-like form.
I>
You exert your will against the forces holding you motionless but cannot seem to break them!
I>
A murky soul siphon scampers in on its crooked legs.
I>
A glistening cerebralite focuses its eye-stalks on you!
A pale, flickering nimbus coalesces around you, then vanishes in a brilliant flash!
The restricting force that envelops you dissolves away.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
>
You rage across the battlefield, striking with unrelenting fury!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
By amazing chance, the soul siphon evades the attack!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +613 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +19 = +211
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
The soul siphon is stunned!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +638 vs DS: +438 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +64 = +290
... and hit for 68 points of damage!
Hard hit shatters weapon arm.
The glistening cerebralite is stunned!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +67 == +144
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +603 vs DS: +418 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +31 = +242
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +31 == +108
Warding failed!
You shudder in pain.
You take 36 damage!
R>
A haze of shadow descends, cloaking the area in a twilight that obscures sight.
R>
You rage across the battlefield, striking with unrelenting fury!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +618 vs DS: +447 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +57 = +254
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Blow to chest causes the soul siphon's heart to skip a beat.
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel healed!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a murky soul siphon!
AS: +603 vs DS: +433 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +31 = +227
... and hit for 42 points of damage!
Strike to the chest breaks a rib!
Necrotic energy from your rolaren war hammer overflows into you!
You feel healed!
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +628 vs DS: +429 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +28 = +253
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Large gash to the right arm, several muscles torn.
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +88 == +165
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
You swing an enormous rolaren war hammer at a glistening cerebralite!
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
AS: +593 vs DS: +429 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +57 = +247
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
A dark shadowy tendril rises up from a glistening cerebralite, writhes its way up an enormous dark rolaren war hammer towards you and lashes out malevolently...
CS: +430 - TD: +332 + CvA: -21 + d100: +65 == +142
Warding failed!
You contort in excruciating agony!
You take 55 damage!
The layer of protection fades away.
You feel the extra courage wane.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...
You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.
...departing in 26 mins...
MAZEIKISJ
Re: Warrior thoughts
05/28/2015 12:41 PM CDT
Ha, it's like those awful Unstun deaths. It annoys me too.
What's weird about that death is that I recall Bind being spiritual, not elemental- and I'm pretty shure the big brain used Elemental Dispel on you.
-james, bristenn's player
What's weird about that death is that I recall Bind being spiritual, not elemental- and I'm pretty shure the big brain used Elemental Dispel on you.
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Warrior thoughts
05/28/2015 04:15 PM CDT
Most of the critters in The Scatter are over level 100. Hunting them with a 342 TD is going to be a challenge, as you'll be warded 75-100% of the time depending on critter and age thereof. I do agree though, that getting the bind dispelled right as you went berserk sucks. That's berserk though. Stuns wear off at the wrong time too and you're off and raging after something you can't hit without prepping it at all.
Add the blues and lesser shroud and see if that helps.
Kerl
Add the blues and lesser shroud and see if that helps.
Kerl
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior thoughts
05/28/2015 05:59 PM CDT
Yep, that is what you dont see in this log... me being dispelled once before. Also there is the should have run or spelled up or ensorcelled armor or not been greedy bit too...
TROUBLE13
Re: Warrior thoughts
05/28/2015 07:09 PM CDT
>>What's weird about that death is that I recall Bind being spiritual, not elemental- and I'm pretty shure the big brain used Elemental Dispel on you.
It was 230, as the OP said he was dispelled once before and that second time he just failed the check badly. And big brain? I wish, then they would be easier to aim at.
It was 230, as the OP said he was dispelled once before and that second time he just failed the check badly. And big brain? I wish, then they would be easier to aim at.
RAVINOLD
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/09/2015 06:50 PM CDT
Bonding needs to be changed. It's our bread and butter and honestly it's powers are pretty much useless except the disarm aspect. Compared to a Pally it's like a ferrari vs a pinto.
I propose that you change bond to allow a warrior to put banes on their weapon (bonded). Hunting undead? Put an undead bane on your weapon. Krolvin? change your weapon to that bane. Seriously, I know I have to carry around my bonded weapon and 2 blessables in case my first blessable get's disarmed. It's really stupid. The current powers are really pointless. Adding this feature would get it near the power of a Pally's bond while sticking with a warriors style.
Berserk .. yeah it's fun but it's really risky to use. Pally .. you get stunned .. pow you are not stunned. No trying to figure out how long the stun is and whether you will be thrown into a crazy berserk and have some undead critter come walking into the room and you not having a blessable in your hand. I think changing the cancel on berserk from the 5-6 as it is now to maybe 2 would still add some element of crazyness without becoming a death dance.
I propose that you change bond to allow a warrior to put banes on their weapon (bonded). Hunting undead? Put an undead bane on your weapon. Krolvin? change your weapon to that bane. Seriously, I know I have to carry around my bonded weapon and 2 blessables in case my first blessable get's disarmed. It's really stupid. The current powers are really pointless. Adding this feature would get it near the power of a Pally's bond while sticking with a warriors style.
Berserk .. yeah it's fun but it's really risky to use. Pally .. you get stunned .. pow you are not stunned. No trying to figure out how long the stun is and whether you will be thrown into a crazy berserk and have some undead critter come walking into the room and you not having a blessable in your hand. I think changing the cancel on berserk from the 5-6 as it is now to maybe 2 would still add some element of crazyness without becoming a death dance.
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/09/2015 08:21 PM CDT
I post about this alot but I have to agree. I also think bonding needs to be updated to play a bigger part in warrior combat and/or RP. RP verbs would be a good start or maybe expanding the wtrick options when using a bonded weapon. I think banes would be a reach for combat improvements but I definitely think that something needs to be done. As it is now bonding effectively only offers +10 AS and +10 to our CMAN roll. The flares are rarely a factor and leave a lot to be desired due to the flare rate, effect or both. The AS bonus is great and desperately needed since warriors have few attack boosters but given the only other comparison, 1625, there is a large gap between the two.
Paladins get the same CMAN bonus, +5 STR/WIS bonus, Double Flares and can now beseech to trigger another flare on command before the attack resolution. At most if the warrior maxes their strength bonus they will have +10 AS vs the paladin's sanctify but the flares and potential spell effects are significantly more effective and practical in Today's combat than warrior bonding flares. This doesnt even get into the fact that paladins can also boost their DF, have easier and more flexible access to high attack strength and now with crusade get another flare/HDW+ for a total of 4 potential flares. All cumulative effects without having to make any choices. Meanwhile warriors have to choose between stuff like a -25DS flare 12% of the time, -1 RT 10% of the time or a double strike 8% of the time, none of which trigger during mstrikes when it would be most useful.
Paladins get the same CMAN bonus, +5 STR/WIS bonus, Double Flares and can now beseech to trigger another flare on command before the attack resolution. At most if the warrior maxes their strength bonus they will have +10 AS vs the paladin's sanctify but the flares and potential spell effects are significantly more effective and practical in Today's combat than warrior bonding flares. This doesnt even get into the fact that paladins can also boost their DF, have easier and more flexible access to high attack strength and now with crusade get another flare/HDW+ for a total of 4 potential flares. All cumulative effects without having to make any choices. Meanwhile warriors have to choose between stuff like a -25DS flare 12% of the time, -1 RT 10% of the time or a double strike 8% of the time, none of which trigger during mstrikes when it would be most useful.
MAZEIKISJ
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/09/2015 09:19 PM CDT
I may be the odd man out here, but when it comes to bonding, I leave it on random, and it flares pretty often, and the healthy mix of all of them is pretty keen and useful.
I do admit it could use some uptweaking, though.
-james, bristenn's player
I do admit it could use some uptweaking, though.
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 01:38 AM CDT
You know, I hadn't thought about it much, but you guys are right. Bond was the cat's meow when it first came out, but that was mostly because there was nothing like it. It pales by comparison today.
TROUBLE13
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 02:05 AM CDT
Something I'd like to see is each rank of wspec and bonding decreasing the chances of EBP by the target, something along the lines of .05 per rank for a total of .5, or a reduction of targets EBP by 1/2.
Possible Effects:
1 - An attack that cannot be outright blocked or parried.(Add or evaded)
2 - An attack that does extra damage upon a successful hit.
3 - An attack that is harder to defend against.
4 - An attack that is quicker than normal.
5 - An attack that strikes your opponent twice.
What if instead of each rank adding one to the list that can be selected each rank unlocked one and increased the rate of flares of the previous one. So that at rank 1 you have bond 1 happen at a rate of 1/5, then at rank 2 you have bond 1 at rate 1/4, and bond 2 at rate 1/5. I'd also suggest switching bond effects 1 and 2 if that were to happen. And yes, make it work with berserk, mstrike, ambush, truehand, quickstrike, sattack, and anything else that has an AS/DS resolution.
I'd also love to see bonding work with ranged.
Possible Effects:
1 - An attack that cannot be outright blocked or parried.(Add or evaded)
2 - An attack that does extra damage upon a successful hit.
3 - An attack that is harder to defend against.
4 - An attack that is quicker than normal.
5 - An attack that strikes your opponent twice.
What if instead of each rank adding one to the list that can be selected each rank unlocked one and increased the rate of flares of the previous one. So that at rank 1 you have bond 1 happen at a rate of 1/5, then at rank 2 you have bond 1 at rate 1/4, and bond 2 at rate 1/5. I'd also suggest switching bond effects 1 and 2 if that were to happen. And yes, make it work with berserk, mstrike, ambush, truehand, quickstrike, sattack, and anything else that has an AS/DS resolution.
I'd also love to see bonding work with ranged.
RAVINOLD
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 07:22 AM CDT
Yes .. something really needs to be done with the class. My first and oldest character is my warrior rolled up in 1995. I've seen everything new added to the class. Being capped and getting bored made me start other characters and Wow .. warriors are sort of boring and one dimensional. Which I've know for a long time but not until I put a lot of time into my Pally did I realize how lame warriors are. My Pally who is 70 now is leagues better to play. It's not even close. You get just about all the advantages of a warrior with better skills.
Take bandits berserk vs judgement. We go crazy swinging away possibly running around to other rooms killing critters 80 levels below us. Judgment, hit all the bandits in the room (even hidden ones) do damage and get them to kneel, then msstrike. Or hit them with Judgement a few times in a row: 3 second and in guarded stance.
Come to a dead character. Warrior "sorry .. can't help you can't drag you out of here) Pally ..aid to the fallen. "Hey I sent a body to the temple someone get it..." you don't even have to leave your hunting if you don't want to.
Bond: Warrior some lame skills. I barely take one swing anyhow .. my hunts are feint ..Mstrike. Most of the bonds aren't even used. Pally ..I have a premablessed Claid with crusade spell that give it some neat flares on top of it. Or I get a plain weapon and add some consecration flares that can double flare. All those flares work with mstrike.
Stun: Warriors: should I berserk? Will it get me killed? Pally .. stunned .. ok .. now I'm not.
I won't go into the AS spells that pally's get and all the other fun spells. Yes I understand it's a different class and that warriors are still playable. It's just some love would make them more fun to play. I mentioned adding banes, you could tie the banes in with CM so people would have to decide which ones they would want so they didn't have too many. Or allow us to triple train in CM so we can get more while helping increase our AS. If someone asks me if they should roll up a pally or a warrior as it sits .. I tell them roll a pally. Never thought I'd say that but it is what it is.
Take bandits berserk vs judgement. We go crazy swinging away possibly running around to other rooms killing critters 80 levels below us. Judgment, hit all the bandits in the room (even hidden ones) do damage and get them to kneel, then msstrike. Or hit them with Judgement a few times in a row: 3 second and in guarded stance.
Come to a dead character. Warrior "sorry .. can't help you can't drag you out of here) Pally ..aid to the fallen. "Hey I sent a body to the temple someone get it..." you don't even have to leave your hunting if you don't want to.
Bond: Warrior some lame skills. I barely take one swing anyhow .. my hunts are feint ..Mstrike. Most of the bonds aren't even used. Pally ..I have a premablessed Claid with crusade spell that give it some neat flares on top of it. Or I get a plain weapon and add some consecration flares that can double flare. All those flares work with mstrike.
Stun: Warriors: should I berserk? Will it get me killed? Pally .. stunned .. ok .. now I'm not.
I won't go into the AS spells that pally's get and all the other fun spells. Yes I understand it's a different class and that warriors are still playable. It's just some love would make them more fun to play. I mentioned adding banes, you could tie the banes in with CM so people would have to decide which ones they would want so they didn't have too many. Or allow us to triple train in CM so we can get more while helping increase our AS. If someone asks me if they should roll up a pally or a warrior as it sits .. I tell them roll a pally. Never thought I'd say that but it is what it is.
RAVINOLD
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 08:16 AM CDT
While I'm ranting some of the cman's need to be changed .. I mean some are almost not usable.
Bearhug: I love this idea ..sometimes I pick it up with my character since it fits with his personality. I'm big giantman crushing things. Yet its use stinks. No one has like 6-8 rounds to stand there holding something. How about changing it to 3 rounds and if another critter comes into the room you can throw (depending on strength) the thing you are crushing at the new critter to possibly knock down or give rt to it? Similar to execution stance.
Warcry: please dump this voice thing. Change it to stamina. The whole voice thing was set up when there wasn't any CM or stamina in existence. When the warrior guild first opened in gs3 it seemed gm's were so worried that warriors new guild skills would make them too powerful and put limits on a lot of it. Even telling us if we used them against another character we'd lose them. Funny. Those days are over .. I know griffin cry helps a lot .. but it sucks to have to spend the points on this thing. Drop it and make it stamina so we can use it. Seriously, it's not like warcry is some overpowered skill you have to keep a handle on.
combat focus: please increase the value of this. It's a lot of CM to increase you td by 10. We have exceptionally low TD's as it is, we need some help here. +20 with this skill would make the point cost much more reasonable.
Spin attack: stupid as it is. Make it more like +75 AS but with a huge stamina cost: like 100 stam.
wspec: make one just for warriors that increase CM and AS by 20 rather than just 10.
spell cleave: works horribly. I had a krodera maul .. this skill doesn't work well enough to spend any points on.
staggering blow: one of my favorite skills but allow someone with 5 ranks to decide if they want to knock them down or throw them into the other room.
surge of strength: i liked the old version without the timer. remove the timer and consider this a warrior spell of strength. Have a special warrior version.
execution stance: again .. make this thing work with mstrike.
Bearhug: I love this idea ..sometimes I pick it up with my character since it fits with his personality. I'm big giantman crushing things. Yet its use stinks. No one has like 6-8 rounds to stand there holding something. How about changing it to 3 rounds and if another critter comes into the room you can throw (depending on strength) the thing you are crushing at the new critter to possibly knock down or give rt to it? Similar to execution stance.
Warcry: please dump this voice thing. Change it to stamina. The whole voice thing was set up when there wasn't any CM or stamina in existence. When the warrior guild first opened in gs3 it seemed gm's were so worried that warriors new guild skills would make them too powerful and put limits on a lot of it. Even telling us if we used them against another character we'd lose them. Funny. Those days are over .. I know griffin cry helps a lot .. but it sucks to have to spend the points on this thing. Drop it and make it stamina so we can use it. Seriously, it's not like warcry is some overpowered skill you have to keep a handle on.
combat focus: please increase the value of this. It's a lot of CM to increase you td by 10. We have exceptionally low TD's as it is, we need some help here. +20 with this skill would make the point cost much more reasonable.
Spin attack: stupid as it is. Make it more like +75 AS but with a huge stamina cost: like 100 stam.
wspec: make one just for warriors that increase CM and AS by 20 rather than just 10.
spell cleave: works horribly. I had a krodera maul .. this skill doesn't work well enough to spend any points on.
staggering blow: one of my favorite skills but allow someone with 5 ranks to decide if they want to knock them down or throw them into the other room.
surge of strength: i liked the old version without the timer. remove the timer and consider this a warrior spell of strength. Have a special warrior version.
execution stance: again .. make this thing work with mstrike.
PENZAM19
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 10:26 AM CDT
The thoughts on bonding are interesting to me, because I think warriors are the one class that should have an innateness to pick up any weapon and be compitant. I know everyone has their 'best' weapon and just tend to use that, but how would warriors feel if we had a set of abilities that rewarded the warrior for using weapons other than their bonded weapon? Interesting? Or not really, you'd rather just use your uber toy?
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Warrior thoughts
06/10/2015 10:34 AM CDT
Change bond benefits so they no longer apply only to melee attacks. I now remember why I'd forgotten how useless bond was other than the AS and CMAN benefits: my main attack method isn't a melee attack.
RTHOMAS
Re: Warrior thoughts
09/08/2015 09:54 AM CDT
Hello, old player just returned. Wow, the more things change the more they stay the same. This exact same debate was going on 10+ years ago and it's still going!
Anyhow, my thoughts on the matter is this. I say the idea that warriors have no singular UNIQUE ability BUT possess access cheaply into most of the combat skills/maneuvers etc. could/should be considered an UNIQUE ability all on it's own. Thus, with that in mind I propose a signature "warrior-only" ability which requires minimal coding and maximum fun/enjoyment. I call it WTRAIN or warrior train.
WTRAIN - Allows one to instantly migrate all CMAN/ARMOR/SHIELD points every 24 hours. This will allow a warrior a more comprehensive access to the CMAN list and overall more utilization of that huge list. There isn't any direct power given to warriors HOWEVER it will allow the class to become attractive in terms of what it can do relative to other classes. Also, adds complexity to the class, more a thinking/tactical class since tailoring all your CMANs for a particular critter becomes open. The in-game justification would simply be that being a warrior, you have latent knowledge of all the combat maneuvers as part of your profession and switching re-learning/in-learning comes much more quickly then other professions.
SHAYD11
Re: Warrior thoughts
09/08/2015 12:43 PM CDT
If we're tossing out ideas...
I'd like if they introduced two new skills to train in, basically one for AS and one for DS. Call them anything you want, warrior lore (hah). Just basically what it would amount to is for the tp cost of 50 spells, the warrior could get an AS boost of lets pick an arbitrary number here, 125. The only caveat would be if you have any spell knowledge or wearing any spells at all, it doesnt add anything. Same with DS, for another 50 spell tp cost, you could train the DS lore and it would add 125 DS and would be nullified if you wore or knew any spells(maybe make a flag so you could turn off others being able to cast DS spells on you or have the lore reactivate once a spell wore off so it wouldnt ruin the poor warrior when a pure was trying to be nice). It would encourage and make viable a strictly physical build. When I think of warriors, I dont think of having to learn magic. I've since learned spells anyway as it was my only way to improve my wimpy elf AS to a respectable level but it feels dirty. So dirty. So save me dev GMs, make it viable to be a non giant, non magical warrior. Im not sure my 125 number is too low or too high but sacrificing all spell knowledge or even wearing any spells would have to have a big benefit to sway it to at least be equal. Maybe throw in some other benefits for no magic, halve the combat maneuver costs as your physical concentration has made you learn them easier or whatever lame rp justification it would need. That could be a cman you learn even, physical prowess, that would be auto unlearned if you trained in spells.
I'd like if they introduced two new skills to train in, basically one for AS and one for DS. Call them anything you want, warrior lore (hah). Just basically what it would amount to is for the tp cost of 50 spells, the warrior could get an AS boost of lets pick an arbitrary number here, 125. The only caveat would be if you have any spell knowledge or wearing any spells at all, it doesnt add anything. Same with DS, for another 50 spell tp cost, you could train the DS lore and it would add 125 DS and would be nullified if you wore or knew any spells(maybe make a flag so you could turn off others being able to cast DS spells on you or have the lore reactivate once a spell wore off so it wouldnt ruin the poor warrior when a pure was trying to be nice). It would encourage and make viable a strictly physical build. When I think of warriors, I dont think of having to learn magic. I've since learned spells anyway as it was my only way to improve my wimpy elf AS to a respectable level but it feels dirty. So dirty. So save me dev GMs, make it viable to be a non giant, non magical warrior. Im not sure my 125 number is too low or too high but sacrificing all spell knowledge or even wearing any spells would have to have a big benefit to sway it to at least be equal. Maybe throw in some other benefits for no magic, halve the combat maneuver costs as your physical concentration has made you learn them easier or whatever lame rp justification it would need. That could be a cman you learn even, physical prowess, that would be auto unlearned if you trained in spells.
