I think it was mentioned that staff didnt think that Warrior AS was an issue at the moment or one they were going to address. Are there any plans for further warrior development otherwise? We have received some great additions with new CMANS and shield specs to add more flexibility but sometimes I feel we still have a ways to go, especially with recent paladin developments. Is it worth tossing ideas around to the NIR or any suggestions for ideas staff would be in favor of more attack strength is not happening.
CAVEMANIA
GS4-COASE
Re: Warrior Development
11/11/2014 06:15 PM CST
Suggestions for profession improvement are always welcome. :)
Coase
Coase
SHAYD11
Re: Warrior Development
11/11/2014 09:49 PM CST
How about a revamp of berserk where if you're stunned, bound, incapacitated in some way it works like it does now or maybe even improved a little by autofixing the status effect. But if not stunned you go into a grizzled critter like state where you can mstrike as much as you like for 10 stamina each time(thats how much it costs per round of berserk now right?) or feint the spell casters so you're not stuck in oh crap mode waiting to die from the turtled ones which makes the current berserking less than optimal. Also like grizzled critters you cant be stunned etc. And I know this will be shot down but something to train in(moc?) to up the berserk AS boost. I dont know how long it would last, 10 rounds? 15 rounds? Even with a cool down, I know I'd use this version more than I do the current version.
TEP2
Re: Warrior Development
11/11/2014 10:04 PM CST
1) My biggest gripe is still the overall high cost for CMANs at 24/30 for mastery. I don't want to say that any CMAN skills are mandatory, but I'd be surprised if most warriors weren't running the same core group with only one or two variations. The SHIELD system helped alleviate it somewhat, but if I could pick up two or three of the "fun" CMANs without compromising my build.
2) The ability to throw a WARCRY, either random or player chosen, while berserking would be excellent.
3) An expansion of the ARMOR system would be lovely too. I rarely do anything besides support.
2) The ability to throw a WARCRY, either random or player chosen, while berserking would be excellent.
3) An expansion of the ARMOR system would be lovely too. I rarely do anything besides support.
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 04:10 AM CST
Ah yes, I thought a cman cost review was going to be done awhile back. I understand choices need to be made but so many new ones have since been created, a slight reduction of some could free up pts.
I like the warcry and berserk combo for flavor and general win.
And, for your latest and greatest trick you introduce DODGE manuevers! Dupe a couple from the cman list and maybe no need for the 1st paragraph! ;)
I guess the berserk and war cry is the only warrior specific development but any or all are great.
I like the warcry and berserk combo for flavor and general win.
And, for your latest and greatest trick you introduce DODGE manuevers! Dupe a couple from the cman list and maybe no need for the 1st paragraph! ;)
I guess the berserk and war cry is the only warrior specific development but any or all are great.
TEP2
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 08:14 AM CST
There are some other things I think would fit thematically within BERSERK, but adding them may overbalance the skill. It would be nice and thematic to have it attempt to SUNDER, STAGGERING BLOW, MIGHTY BLOW, and SPELL CLEAVE. I am uncertain at what point during the whole routine I'd like it to try such things, but I know post 50 I generally stopped trying to run berserk as anything other than a status breaker due to running in to turtled casters and basically waiting to die.
RATHBONER
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 08:40 AM CST
MANOSTRIKE
works like focussed mstrike but allows setting attack rounds to manoevers instead. e.g. a character with sufficient MOC to get a triple manostrike could set the first action to feint, the second to hamstring and the third to weapon swing. Requires manoevers based off the same hand or armor location unless TWC trained which allows both hands to be used. e.g. a feint, sbash, kill combination would be allowed with TWC training.
...
Dodgeman would help redress the enormous disparity in manoever availability between warriors and monks. Taking it from roughly 800:200 to 1100:500 which would be a rather more reasonable balance.
works like focussed mstrike but allows setting attack rounds to manoevers instead. e.g. a character with sufficient MOC to get a triple manostrike could set the first action to feint, the second to hamstring and the third to weapon swing. Requires manoevers based off the same hand or armor location unless TWC trained which allows both hands to be used. e.g. a feint, sbash, kill combination would be allowed with TWC training.
...
Dodgeman would help redress the enormous disparity in manoever availability between warriors and monks. Taking it from roughly 800:200 to 1100:500 which would be a rather more reasonable balance.
KRAKII
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 09:54 AM CST
"works like focussed mstrike but allows setting attack rounds to manoevers instead. e.g. a character with sufficient MOC to get a triple manostrike could set the first action to feint, the second to hamstring and the third to weapon swing." -- Rathboner
.
Niiiiice.
.
Niiiiice.
TEP2
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 10:47 AM CST
>MANOSTRIKE
>works like focussed mstrike but allows setting attack rounds to manoevers instead. e.g. a character with sufficient MOC to get a triple manostrike could set the first action to feint, the second to hamstring and the third to weapon swing. Requires manoevers based off the same hand or armor location unless TWC trained which allows both hands to be used. e.g. a feint, sbash, kill combination would be allowed with TWC training.
This is a phenomenal idea.
>works like focussed mstrike but allows setting attack rounds to manoevers instead. e.g. a character with sufficient MOC to get a triple manostrike could set the first action to feint, the second to hamstring and the third to weapon swing. Requires manoevers based off the same hand or armor location unless TWC trained which allows both hands to be used. e.g. a feint, sbash, kill combination would be allowed with TWC training.
This is a phenomenal idea.
QIUJ
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 11:10 AM CST
Had to jump in to add a plus one on this. What an amazing idea on the MANOSTRIKE!
-Jason/Vaein
-Jason/Vaein
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 02:02 PM CST
I also like the MANOSTRIKE idea.
To clarify on the implementation of a berserk + warcries idea, the war cries should not just be randomly thrown into the berserk rounds (in lieu of swings/MOC) using up a 10 stamina round. That would make us less effective as I can see a bunch of random war cries taking up a round when they may not be needed or wanted, and maybe with bad luck inserting multiple times or consecutively. That would burn stamina and voices and slow killing power.
I envision allow us to manually use the war cries verbs during a berserk rage. Or, if that is too much using extra stamina and "flaring" in combination with a swinging/MOC round. Then again using a flare type of warcry into berserk that uses extra stamina could suddenly cause popped muscles if you are low on stamina.
Most importantly, please allow UAC (even if just kicking if nonblessed weapons are in hands) to default as the attack mode if the system recognizes berserk is not doing damage due to undead creature(s)!
To clarify on the implementation of a berserk + warcries idea, the war cries should not just be randomly thrown into the berserk rounds (in lieu of swings/MOC) using up a 10 stamina round. That would make us less effective as I can see a bunch of random war cries taking up a round when they may not be needed or wanted, and maybe with bad luck inserting multiple times or consecutively. That would burn stamina and voices and slow killing power.
I envision allow us to manually use the war cries verbs during a berserk rage. Or, if that is too much using extra stamina and "flaring" in combination with a swinging/MOC round. Then again using a flare type of warcry into berserk that uses extra stamina could suddenly cause popped muscles if you are low on stamina.
Most importantly, please allow UAC (even if just kicking if nonblessed weapons are in hands) to default as the attack mode if the system recognizes berserk is not doing damage due to undead creature(s)!
TEP2
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 02:46 PM CST
Ideally if berserk + warcries happened I'd like it as a player triggered command (HOWL seems appropriate since it's one of the few things you can actually do while berserking). What I meant by random is not being able to choose the specific warcry. Obviously I would greatly prefer if it was one of the three offensive ones (bellow, growl, or cry), but I'd take what I could get. The limiting factor would be that you'd be stuck with the open version, no targeting.
ROBLAR
Re: Warrior Development
11/12/2014 03:42 PM CST
There are actually a few berserk specific messaging verbs you play with, but yea howl or yell work best (btw roar is the only one that has same messaging in and out of berserk so a new message there would be great).
Roar is also the only verb that still works with cutthroat if someone wants to fix that.
Open version only fine by me!!
Roar is also the only verb that still works with cutthroat if someone wants to fix that.
Open version only fine by me!!
WARLORD1871
Re: Warrior Development
11/13/2014 08:57 PM CST
UAC working with berserk when you forget to bring your weapon back out would be nice.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
KITHUS
Re: Warrior Development
11/13/2014 09:16 PM CST
UAC working with Berserk period. Nevermind forgetting your weapon. I mean even if it just does a random UAC attack if you have no weapon in your hand.
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
Keith/Brinret/Shiun
Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Warrior Development
11/15/2014 02:03 PM CST
I think that if we receive the very large maneuver penalties associated with heavy armor, that we should get a corresponding reduction in damage from said maneuvers. At some point a number of maneuver formulas were basically turned on their heads (roa-ter burrows come to mind), and suddenly we couldn't dodge them worth a crap. It's not necessarily bad that we would have a harder time dodging in full plate, BUT, we should get a corresponding benefit for wearing that full plate.
Not directly a warrior dev item, but it's a pretty big weak point in the combat system that affects warriors more than anyone else.
Kerl
Not directly a warrior dev item, but it's a pretty big weak point in the combat system that affects warriors more than anyone else.
Kerl
EJKATZ
Re: Warrior Development
11/17/2014 07:16 PM CST
To me, if the deafening silence we get every time we speak of fixing warrior AS on these boards is to be considered tacit denial, then there are some other areas where I think warrior dev could step up to fix the discrepancies.
1) Reducing the set up times
-Give us shorter RTs for the multiple maneuvers it takes us to set up a kill. Elementalists can ewave anything with impunity. Spiritualists can Bind. The list of 3 soft second disabling spells that are all the setup required is long. Warriors have marginally effectual warcries that can't really be relied on or a whole host of CMANs that take tons of time and also are hugely decreased in efficacy with things like encumbrance, injuries (and warriors are supposed to have injuries) etc.
2) Make feint drop melee DS greater than stance offensive alone.
-It would be a sort of serviceable workaround for the AS issue, even though it would just require more setup RT that no other classes have to deal with.
For the record though, I still say just fix the AS. 3x CMANs!
-Mohrgan's player and the dead horse he keeps beating.
1) Reducing the set up times
-Give us shorter RTs for the multiple maneuvers it takes us to set up a kill. Elementalists can ewave anything with impunity. Spiritualists can Bind. The list of 3 soft second disabling spells that are all the setup required is long. Warriors have marginally effectual warcries that can't really be relied on or a whole host of CMANs that take tons of time and also are hugely decreased in efficacy with things like encumbrance, injuries (and warriors are supposed to have injuries) etc.
2) Make feint drop melee DS greater than stance offensive alone.
-It would be a sort of serviceable workaround for the AS issue, even though it would just require more setup RT that no other classes have to deal with.
For the record though, I still say just fix the AS. 3x CMANs!
-Mohrgan's player and the dead horse he keeps beating.
SHAYD11
Re: Warrior Development
11/18/2014 06:04 AM CST
>For the record though, I still say just fix the AS.
This! I dont begrudge other professions their improvements(sorcs with their create silvers spell, paladins being made into minor arkati, clerics being immune to attacks for a round) but the stubbornness against making square AS more on par with bard/paladin AS baffles me.
>2) Make feint drop melee DS greater than stance offensive alone.
I like this idea as a last resort but it still wouldnt fix the berserk=dead in a crowd of pures problem.
This! I dont begrudge other professions their improvements(sorcs with their create silvers spell, paladins being made into minor arkati, clerics being immune to attacks for a round) but the stubbornness against making square AS more on par with bard/paladin AS baffles me.
>2) Make feint drop melee DS greater than stance offensive alone.
I like this idea as a last resort but it still wouldnt fix the berserk=dead in a crowd of pures problem.
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior Development
11/18/2014 08:40 AM CST
How fast do you guys think the setup cmans should be? Tackle and shield charge are just too slow to ever be considered but what about the others? What about some new CMANS:
Combat specialist
rank 1: +5 AS, -1 RT offensive cmans
rank 2: +5 AS, -1 ambush RT
rank 3: +5 AS, -1 RT offensive cmans
Unstoppable force
martial stance, cannot berserk while active
drains 5-10 stamina each round
rank 1: mstrike RT reduced by 5 seconds, or to weapon minimum; mstrike during recovery cost 25% less stamina
rank 2: mstrikes during recovery reduced by another 25% stamina
rank 3: mstrike RT reduced by 5 seconds, or to weapon minimum; mstrike during recovery costs 25% less stamina
Manostrike - love this idea
Those would be awesome and even without the AS boost a great way to make the warrior unrivaled in physical combat. In retrospect adding/removing restrictions would be neccessary for further balance obviously. But, if these were new cmans...it doesnt solve my biggest gripe - the cman point dilemma. But, if the options are attractive enough I wouldnt mind as much.
Combat specialist
rank 1: +5 AS, -1 RT offensive cmans
rank 2: +5 AS, -1 ambush RT
rank 3: +5 AS, -1 RT offensive cmans
Unstoppable force
martial stance, cannot berserk while active
drains 5-10 stamina each round
rank 1: mstrike RT reduced by 5 seconds, or to weapon minimum; mstrike during recovery cost 25% less stamina
rank 2: mstrikes during recovery reduced by another 25% stamina
rank 3: mstrike RT reduced by 5 seconds, or to weapon minimum; mstrike during recovery costs 25% less stamina
Manostrike - love this idea
Those would be awesome and even without the AS boost a great way to make the warrior unrivaled in physical combat. In retrospect adding/removing restrictions would be neccessary for further balance obviously. But, if these were new cmans...it doesnt solve my biggest gripe - the cman point dilemma. But, if the options are attractive enough I wouldnt mind as much.
WARLORD1871
Re: Warrior Development
11/18/2014 05:10 PM CST
love those cman ideas but I don't have enough points to get what few more things I want now that im closing in on 100. I mean yeah bearhug is really just an rp choice but why shouldnt I be allowed to have some fun?
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
PENZAM19
Re: Warrior Development
11/18/2014 10:05 PM CST
I certainly wouldn't complain about solving the warrior AS issue, but there are certainly things higher on my list.
1) I'm all in on Kerl's point about warriors in plate being not great at avoiding maneuvers, but getting a reduction in the result. It doesn't make sense I can shrug off a maul to the leg with a minor, but some rocks fly at my legs and I'm maimed for life.
2) I still think warriors are missing that community skill. While armor fittings are fine, we're easily one of the most useless classes to the community. I'd love to see warriors get a skill like ensorcell/enchanting to do permanent work on others items (padding/weighting to heavy, resistances), but I'd even be happy with warcry like buffs for others that don't require grouping. It would be nice to 'shout' buffs to inspire others for things like maneuver defense, AS, phantom padding at the cost of stamina. I'd make us more desirable in town and I wouldn't feel like such a lump waiting for someone to need armor support or a fused box bashed.
MAZEIKISJ
Re: Warrior Development
11/20/2014 02:43 AM CST
I still had that whacky idea of weapon skills that I posted way back, which I think was considered more sideways development than anything- but akin to what we have for SHIELD maneuvers? Things that spice it up a bit and offset the edge of that gear-and-slogging-up-to-425 dependency for AS- mostly passive skills with flare chances (free riposte with a parry at an AS penalty, ambush from hiding-style DS pushdowns for aimed strikes, disabling style flares like knockout flares (which are pretty cool), Benediction-style AS boosts, etc), as opposed to targetted maneuvers, which we have in spades and by post cap, I'm pretty certain most warriors don't bother with any targeted CMs save the bread and butters like Feint and Disarm (I know I don't, though occasionally I'll use Sunder Shield). They'll never give us flat extra AS, even from 3x CM, but more perks for being the herp and derp out there swinging away would be nice.
The MANOSTRIKE idea is absofabulous though.
..I'm also an advocate of updating Gertie's Growl to not be 'haha i put u in offensive for no reason when feint could'a just done it proper' and instead function like yon paladin's 1608, Beacon of Courage. Though the non-grouped PC part of 1608 makes me cringe a little- and I'm not certain that paladins would like us yoinking one of their new, coveted and very much earned toys.
-james, bristenn's player
The MANOSTRIKE idea is absofabulous though.
..I'm also an advocate of updating Gertie's Growl to not be 'haha i put u in offensive for no reason when feint could'a just done it proper' and instead function like yon paladin's 1608, Beacon of Courage. Though the non-grouped PC part of 1608 makes me cringe a little- and I'm not certain that paladins would like us yoinking one of their new, coveted and very much earned toys.
-james, bristenn's player
| You think to yourself, "FFF-" |
| A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you! |
| You evade the bolt by a hair! |
KRAKII
Re: Warrior Development
11/20/2014 08:29 AM CST
In your sig-line, should you not be evading the bolt by a 'hare'?
WARLORD1871
Re: Warrior Development
11/20/2014 12:00 PM CST
hah
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior Development
11/24/2014 08:42 AM CST
I like the idea of weapon talents for new improvements so we dont add to the lack of cman point issue. Not sure how it would be implemented but maybe visiting the guild or PC guildmaster with appropriate skills would work. If a flat out AS increase isnt possible here is some stuff I was thinking about when using the appropriate weapon:
Reduced ambush RT - can remove the minimum 1 sec RT adder when ambushing
Flare based on weapon type
Crit weighting
Reduced swing RT if e/b/p
Reduced mstrike recovery and rt when using weapon
Other things:
make bonding an innate talent to free CMAN points
Make quickstrike compatible with CMANs
Reduced ambush RT - can remove the minimum 1 sec RT adder when ambushing
Flare based on weapon type
Crit weighting
Reduced swing RT if e/b/p
Reduced mstrike recovery and rt when using weapon
Other things:
make bonding an innate talent to free CMAN points
Make quickstrike compatible with CMANs
TROUBLE13
Re: Warrior Development
12/31/2014 11:35 AM CST
I use warcry growl rather often. If I get a bad roll with feint growl might work. If there are two or more things in the room growl might be worth it, three seconds and I could have all of them in offensive. Someone said it earlier though and I'll echo it, make warcries more effective and usable for us. I'd also like to see more varying degrees of success with Carn's Cry and Gerrelle's Growl. Growl as it is, is more or less pass/fail and Carn's Cry isn't much better with three out comes, success the creature freezes, partial success the creature runs from the room and is frozen briefly, or no success at all.
Something that always kills me too is how useless combat maneuvers become against creatures that are a higher level. It isn't even really that gradual of a thing, the effectiveness is killed rather quickly. They work against intended targets up to 5 over and then the ability to use them takes a drastic nose dive.
I'd love to see more synergy between combat maneuvers. Allowing quick strike to work with them would be great, the same for true hand. What I think would be nifty is if they were used before hand and then the following attack/ambush/cman would see the effect, a bit similar to the way 340 works, and that you could stack both before an attack.
Caveman said it and I've said it before and I'll do it again. Make bonding an innate warrior ability. I also think the same should be done to wspec(1-3) and make it similar to bonding in that you need so many kills to gain the benefit.
While they said there would be a review on maneuver point costs it really didn't sound that promising to me as they said they wouldn't be changing the cost of most of the offensive ones. With 202 points we can currently max out six maneuvers and have a seventh at rank 4 with the most commonly used cost scale of 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Even if they reduced those to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, making them cost 20 to master instead of 30 we'd still only be able to max out 10 of them. I'd also like to see maneuvers with only 3 max ranks reduced to something more like 2, 5, 8 ranks, so that it is only 15 total points instead of 24. And maneuvers at the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, scale already down to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The reasoning has been said to force us to make choices but even with lower costs when we have 40+ maneuvers we are still going to be making choices on which to train. One of the supposed strengths of our profession is the ability to use multiple weapons but when our ability to use them effectively is hemmed in by combat maneuver costs it isn't really a strength any more.
I feel the same way about shield skills too, the point costs are too high. Even with 303 ranks of shield use I only have 12 out of 33 maneuvers, and have only maxed out 5 of them and those all are of the 3 max rank variety. I also don't like that we need trample and trample mastery, why couldn't this just be one maneuver where the higher ranks also increase the number of targets? Shield strike mastery also seems backwards to me with the shield bash coming after the flurry of blows(or mstrike) instead of before it. Its precursor shield strike is a bash followed by a single attack. I just looked at the cost of it too and wow, 30 points! I am also a little confused why shield strike and shield pin are near the same thing. Why not roll them into one? I'd also like to see an ambush(aimed) option for the attack following the bash, maybe just reduce the accuracy a little on it.
We all love redux but I'd like to see improvements made on it to where we are encouraged to hunt without spells. What I'd like to see from redux is that it applies to everything not just AS attacks, our toughness shouldn't be so limited. So primarily that it would also affect the out come of warding spells and maneuvers but I'd also like to see it affect flares and the splash damage done by ball spells. A second addition would be that it prevents wounds from stacking. This ability wouldn't be instant instead it would start at a 1% chance when one first got redux and build up to a full 100% by the time one was 50 or so with standard training. This ability would also be reduced by spells worn or spells known, likely -10% each.
I also think the penalties from wounds are too steep, I don't think rank 1 wounds should have any affect on us and rank 2s should only be -10 not the -28 they currently are. The penalties to EBP and DS from them should also be reduced. This could either be tied into redux or just done in general for everyone.
Someone mentioned UAC and berserk, this likely isn't going to really happen unless they make UAC work with mstrike. Sadly they've rained on that idea a few times already. It would be great and amazing for us and UAC uses everywhere though. If it was made possible I'd like a flag or switch that we could set which would determine whether or not we used AS style or UAC style of attacks while berserking.
I am not sure it came across correctly and I might be wrong but I think Lothario's grizzled creature application to berserk is meant to mean that we should be a lot harder to stun while berserking. The warcries while berserking sounds like a somewhat neat idea and gave me a bit of one of my own. Why not have creatures killed during a berserk add a coup like affect? We get a bit more AS during our berserk for each kill and any creature witnessing a kill sees a reduction in their AS/DS/cmans/CS. Coup just says it lowers their AS but it seems like their ability to do anything should be lessened.
Something that always kills me too is how useless combat maneuvers become against creatures that are a higher level. It isn't even really that gradual of a thing, the effectiveness is killed rather quickly. They work against intended targets up to 5 over and then the ability to use them takes a drastic nose dive.
I'd love to see more synergy between combat maneuvers. Allowing quick strike to work with them would be great, the same for true hand. What I think would be nifty is if they were used before hand and then the following attack/ambush/cman would see the effect, a bit similar to the way 340 works, and that you could stack both before an attack.
Caveman said it and I've said it before and I'll do it again. Make bonding an innate warrior ability. I also think the same should be done to wspec(1-3) and make it similar to bonding in that you need so many kills to gain the benefit.
While they said there would be a review on maneuver point costs it really didn't sound that promising to me as they said they wouldn't be changing the cost of most of the offensive ones. With 202 points we can currently max out six maneuvers and have a seventh at rank 4 with the most commonly used cost scale of 2, 4, 6, 8, 10. Even if they reduced those to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, making them cost 20 to master instead of 30 we'd still only be able to max out 10 of them. I'd also like to see maneuvers with only 3 max ranks reduced to something more like 2, 5, 8 ranks, so that it is only 15 total points instead of 24. And maneuvers at the 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, scale already down to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The reasoning has been said to force us to make choices but even with lower costs when we have 40+ maneuvers we are still going to be making choices on which to train. One of the supposed strengths of our profession is the ability to use multiple weapons but when our ability to use them effectively is hemmed in by combat maneuver costs it isn't really a strength any more.
I feel the same way about shield skills too, the point costs are too high. Even with 303 ranks of shield use I only have 12 out of 33 maneuvers, and have only maxed out 5 of them and those all are of the 3 max rank variety. I also don't like that we need trample and trample mastery, why couldn't this just be one maneuver where the higher ranks also increase the number of targets? Shield strike mastery also seems backwards to me with the shield bash coming after the flurry of blows(or mstrike) instead of before it. Its precursor shield strike is a bash followed by a single attack. I just looked at the cost of it too and wow, 30 points! I am also a little confused why shield strike and shield pin are near the same thing. Why not roll them into one? I'd also like to see an ambush(aimed) option for the attack following the bash, maybe just reduce the accuracy a little on it.
We all love redux but I'd like to see improvements made on it to where we are encouraged to hunt without spells. What I'd like to see from redux is that it applies to everything not just AS attacks, our toughness shouldn't be so limited. So primarily that it would also affect the out come of warding spells and maneuvers but I'd also like to see it affect flares and the splash damage done by ball spells. A second addition would be that it prevents wounds from stacking. This ability wouldn't be instant instead it would start at a 1% chance when one first got redux and build up to a full 100% by the time one was 50 or so with standard training. This ability would also be reduced by spells worn or spells known, likely -10% each.
I also think the penalties from wounds are too steep, I don't think rank 1 wounds should have any affect on us and rank 2s should only be -10 not the -28 they currently are. The penalties to EBP and DS from them should also be reduced. This could either be tied into redux or just done in general for everyone.
Someone mentioned UAC and berserk, this likely isn't going to really happen unless they make UAC work with mstrike. Sadly they've rained on that idea a few times already. It would be great and amazing for us and UAC uses everywhere though. If it was made possible I'd like a flag or switch that we could set which would determine whether or not we used AS style or UAC style of attacks while berserking.
I am not sure it came across correctly and I might be wrong but I think Lothario's grizzled creature application to berserk is meant to mean that we should be a lot harder to stun while berserking. The warcries while berserking sounds like a somewhat neat idea and gave me a bit of one of my own. Why not have creatures killed during a berserk add a coup like affect? We get a bit more AS during our berserk for each kill and any creature witnessing a kill sees a reduction in their AS/DS/cmans/CS. Coup just says it lowers their AS but it seems like their ability to do anything should be lessened.
PENZAM19
Re: Warrior Development
12/31/2014 01:20 PM CST
Nice comprehensive post Trouble. I actually don't agree with most of your points, but I'll focus on the one I do agree with.
>>We all love redux but I'd like to see improvements made on it to where we are encouraged to hunt without spells. What I'd like to see from redux is that it applies to everything not just AS attacks, our toughness shouldn't be so limited. So primarily that it would also affect the out come of warding spells and maneuvers but I'd also like to see it affect flares and the splash damage done by ball spells.<<
To me, this is the single biggest problem facing warrior design. Our entire premise is build upon being the best profession at taking a hit. Unfortunately, there are so many mechanics that ignore or punish the foundation we're built on.
- Getting hit for 1 damage and dying to a crystal weapon flare crit is downright miserable. Setting the expectation of taking a hit, then punishing the character for taking a hit is incredibly backwards. If I could fix one thing in gemstone right now, it would be to apply redux to weapon flares.
- Redux should apply to ball splash damage. If our toughness can stave off an axe, we can tough through some burns or some frostbite too. Motoring through these damage sources is physical, not mental like warding spells.
- Warding spells are meant to be our Achilles heel, so I won't say redux should be directly applied to warding spells. I would however, like to see us handle warding spells more like pures handle maneuvers. Reduce the damage and chance to crit kill via some % of redux, but keep brutal disable and RT penalties associated with failed warding spells. Pures still have a chance to escape when maneuvered, but squares have no change to escape an insta-crit kill warding roll of 125.
- Wound stacking would be a plus, but we already have that via armor reinforcement. I'm ok with having to choose between reinforcement and support.
I think if these changes were made, warriors could hunt cap and post-cap areas without outside spells at the same efficiency pures do today.
>>We all love redux but I'd like to see improvements made on it to where we are encouraged to hunt without spells. What I'd like to see from redux is that it applies to everything not just AS attacks, our toughness shouldn't be so limited. So primarily that it would also affect the out come of warding spells and maneuvers but I'd also like to see it affect flares and the splash damage done by ball spells.<<
To me, this is the single biggest problem facing warrior design. Our entire premise is build upon being the best profession at taking a hit. Unfortunately, there are so many mechanics that ignore or punish the foundation we're built on.
- Getting hit for 1 damage and dying to a crystal weapon flare crit is downright miserable. Setting the expectation of taking a hit, then punishing the character for taking a hit is incredibly backwards. If I could fix one thing in gemstone right now, it would be to apply redux to weapon flares.
- Redux should apply to ball splash damage. If our toughness can stave off an axe, we can tough through some burns or some frostbite too. Motoring through these damage sources is physical, not mental like warding spells.
- Warding spells are meant to be our Achilles heel, so I won't say redux should be directly applied to warding spells. I would however, like to see us handle warding spells more like pures handle maneuvers. Reduce the damage and chance to crit kill via some % of redux, but keep brutal disable and RT penalties associated with failed warding spells. Pures still have a chance to escape when maneuvered, but squares have no change to escape an insta-crit kill warding roll of 125.
- Wound stacking would be a plus, but we already have that via armor reinforcement. I'm ok with having to choose between reinforcement and support.
I think if these changes were made, warriors could hunt cap and post-cap areas without outside spells at the same efficiency pures do today.
WARLORD1871
Re: Warrior Development
01/02/2015 04:36 PM CST
I would definatly love to see redux applied to spells and such, I always get totally **** off when such a low end roll just drops me dead on the spot while I could take a claid to the head for a far bigger roll and just say ouch. Wounds giving less in the way of peanlties would be awesome and so would reduced costs, I'm not to worried about shields, but cmans is gonna leave me high and dry without being able to go back and pickup headbutt that I dropped years ago. Also I won't be able to go to rank 5 in wspec while finishing strength.
Yes I know bearhug is a choice but it's an rp choice for that matter a LOT of the stuff we have to choose from is just alternative's. I look at other things like the haymaker, bearhug, as fun rp choices. headbut too. I think some of these are just rp choices that would hardly be op to make it easier for us to have. Also if im fully trained in brawling why should I not just automatically know something like haymaker? Really? I have to spend points for this?
I could make the same argument for bearhug for anyone who know's Fyre heh. Really make bearhug cheaper how many people do you see EVER use it? It is so disadvantages unless you are 1 on 1 which is extremely rare I think everyone else looks at it and says to heck with that noise.
at level 90 fulled trained in cm
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Combat Focus focus 4
Bearhug bearhug 5
Specialization I wspec1 3
Side by Side sidebyside 1
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Surge of Strength surge 3
Block Mastery bmastery 3
Cunning Defense cdefense 5
Griffin's Voice griffin 3
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 4
>
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Yes I know bearhug is a choice but it's an rp choice for that matter a LOT of the stuff we have to choose from is just alternative's. I look at other things like the haymaker, bearhug, as fun rp choices. headbut too. I think some of these are just rp choices that would hardly be op to make it easier for us to have. Also if im fully trained in brawling why should I not just automatically know something like haymaker? Really? I have to spend points for this?
I could make the same argument for bearhug for anyone who know's Fyre heh. Really make bearhug cheaper how many people do you see EVER use it? It is so disadvantages unless you are 1 on 1 which is extremely rare I think everyone else looks at it and says to heck with that noise.
at level 90 fulled trained in cm
Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2
Combat Focus focus 4
Bearhug bearhug 5
Specialization I wspec1 3
Side by Side sidebyside 1
Weapon Bonding bonding 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Surge of Strength surge 3
Block Mastery bmastery 3
Cunning Defense cdefense 5
Griffin's Voice griffin 3
Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 4
>
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior Development
01/11/2015 02:22 PM CST
Few more ideas:
Let MOC enhance select CMANs in some way. Limit it to +1 additional target/swing per 50 ranks of MOC meaning only warriors and monks get the max number of targets/swings
Make the current weapon bonding an innate warrior talent limited by level.
Let us bond with multiple weapons if we want. Each additional weapon increases kills needed per bonding level.
Have bonding effects activate during special attacks (mstrikes, CMANs etc) like normal flares
New CMAN - Greater Weapon Bonding
Rank 1 - +1 crit weighting, double bonding flare frequency (changed to every 2,3,4,5 and 6 swings for each effect)
Rank 2 - +1 crit weighting, chance for an automatic attack to flare during select offensive cmans using your weapon (Disarm, Sunder, Feint, Charge, etc). Set on/off with cman bond offensive/defensive verb
Rank 3 - +1 crit weighting, can select up to 2 bonding effects for each flare (no duplicates)
Rank 4 - +1 crit weighting, mstrike RT reduced by 1/3 (cannot be lower than base RT+1)
Rank 5 - +1 crit weighting, can select up to 3 bonding effects for each flare.
Since the DEV team thinks that warrior AS is not currently an issue, I chose to propose phantom crit weighting as an alternative solution to the issue.
Let MOC enhance select CMANs in some way. Limit it to +1 additional target/swing per 50 ranks of MOC meaning only warriors and monks get the max number of targets/swings
Make the current weapon bonding an innate warrior talent limited by level.
Let us bond with multiple weapons if we want. Each additional weapon increases kills needed per bonding level.
Have bonding effects activate during special attacks (mstrikes, CMANs etc) like normal flares
New CMAN - Greater Weapon Bonding
Rank 1 - +1 crit weighting, double bonding flare frequency (changed to every 2,3,4,5 and 6 swings for each effect)
Rank 2 - +1 crit weighting, chance for an automatic attack to flare during select offensive cmans using your weapon (Disarm, Sunder, Feint, Charge, etc). Set on/off with cman bond offensive/defensive verb
Rank 3 - +1 crit weighting, can select up to 2 bonding effects for each flare (no duplicates)
Rank 4 - +1 crit weighting, mstrike RT reduced by 1/3 (cannot be lower than base RT+1)
Rank 5 - +1 crit weighting, can select up to 3 bonding effects for each flare.
Since the DEV team thinks that warrior AS is not currently an issue, I chose to propose phantom crit weighting as an alternative solution to the issue.
WARLORD1871
Re: Warrior Development
01/11/2015 03:55 PM CST
I especially like the idea of bonding being a natural ability, more so bonding more than one weapon. It makes sense for twc warriors but also those of us who actually would fell guilty breaking a bond. Fyre has been using the basic Eahnor fang he was gifted by Junis for soooooo many years it would feel so wrong to just snap the bond. At the same time mechanically I am starting to really feel the consequences of using a plain jane plus 18 weapon near cap.
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
Fyrentennimar
Quote: "Jaynah says, "This is more fun than rolton tipping and blood eagle ridin combined.""
CAVEMANIA
Re: Warrior Development
01/11/2015 06:16 PM CST
That was the idea - benefit all warriors from TWC warriors to those that want the bonding bonuses when using their secondary blessable weapon on undead.
Kinda reduces the value of splitters but they still provide their benefit of BOGO when enhancing them and no change for paladins.
Kinda reduces the value of splitters but they still provide their benefit of BOGO when enhancing them and no change for paladins.
