Update 650 Please 11/15/2014 09:54 AM CST
Over on the cleric forums Rath made a good point while discussing 319.

Most professions have a Get out of Jail Free ability. Some have more than one. Clerics had none and were due one for balance reasons. I think only Rangers completely lack one now, though the monk one isn't worth the CMan points to train it. 319 is restoring not upsetting a balance.


So just for fun let's go through the professions:

Warriors - Berserk
Rogues - Vanish
Monks - Inner Harmony
Bards - Troubadour's Rally
Paladins - Divine Intervention
Sorcerers - Cloak of Shadows
Empaths - Troll's Blood and Regeneration
Clerics - Soul Ward
Wizards - Alright Rath I'm stumped on Wizards, but let's be honest, if we want to add anything to wizards the dev team will want to nerf Haste and Rapid Fire first.

What does this have to do with 650? It should be rangers emergency spell! I propose the following changes to 650:

- ASSUME usable while incapacitated
- ASSUME (animal) will cast the spell with the appropriate form even if 650 isn't currently active
- The following aspects remove the corresponding status effect upon ASSUMEing and provide immunity to the status:
* Spider - Web
* Serpent - Poison
* Yierka - Disease
* Jackal - Fear
* Hawk - Silence
* Mantis - Bind
* Burgee - Stun
* Panther - Curse (It's a black cat!)

Don't think I missed any statuses. Yes I understand that we could easily just remove poison and disease with spirit spells cheaper. Thoughts?



Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/15/2014 10:10 AM CST
I would argue that the ranger's animal companion fits somewhat in the get out of jail free category for your list (not as strong as some of the other options though). I know my companion has saved my life at least a few times when bad things are happening. Also, on the CvC front I've seen animal companions absolutely destroy capped character who have done something to stun a ranger.

-- Robert
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/15/2014 11:07 AM CST
That's a pretty neat idea. I like it.

~Brian, Sepher's player
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/15/2014 12:35 PM CST
>Wizards - Alright Rath I'm stumped on Wizards, but let's be honest, if we want to add anything to wizards the dev team will want to nerf Haste and Rapid Fire first.

Temporal Reversion is the closest wizard analog to Soul Ward though its stretching a point to call it a get out of jail ability rather than an "I didn't get into jail in the first place, honest guv" ability. You bought the stretch on 712 though, which is also entirely passive in operation.

The companion might well fit the bill for rangers. It didn't occur to me because I've never seen one in that role.

>Don't think I missed any statuses. Yes I understand that we could easily just remove poison and disease with spirit spells cheaper. Thoughts?

That sort of assume functionality is the sort of thing other professions have been getting when they were upgraded and I wouldn't think it amiss if rangers got something like that at some point too.
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/15/2014 01:04 PM CST


I have been going back and forth on posting this type of post myself. I really feel underwhelmed with 630 and 650. I love companions i hunt with pups and always rp. Its just the same arguements...unless its a warcamp or invasion where the 30 sec or how ever long it takes for the companion to attack...its point less to hunt with them. As for 650 i dont get the wow factor like some of the other spells.

I would love a time tweak for companions to react to attack commands but we already know the nir answer. There is one tweak i would think in my opinion make 650 awesome. Keep the time it has and assume abilities but when having the spell on without assuming an animal the ranger gains druid powers. When casting vines two mininal will be created with more based on summoning lores. When in this state call swarm will call a pack of animals instead of bugs gaining more attack power and remove the immunity some creatures have.

Thjs a few ideas....

Pup
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 10:29 AM CST
I'm really pleased with our spells. But, by now, you know that my training path is mutant-y, and I do not rely much on spells, offensively, whatsoever. The younger archer ranger is taking a more traditional route (still with the coyote bias towards the physical), but he will not have his AC til next year.

The combination of the enhancive abilities of 650 - plus - the AC bonus to the correlating aspect, is really a nice boon. Maybe it's not flashy, and maybe it's comparatively underwhelming - but it is solid and reliable. I like them for those reasons.

Those things noted.. creatures at cap are faster. Bandit ambushes are often lightning fast and if they are successful, the situation can get quickly out of control.

Anecdotally, that is when I wish the follow and engage speed on the Animal Companions were beefed up some. If I fall into a spike pit and am stunned and am getting plinked to death, I am generally out of the stun before AC arrives on the scene. 619 saves the day, not 630.

Also, AC does not seem to realize SUBDUAL STRIKE effects - being completely paralyzed, but not stunned - and that is generally when we need them the most.

Lastly, while I am a little post cap, I cannot be certain that my AC has also grown in relative skill. She seems to whiff often on post cap creatures, and I am not sure how that is calculated. Maybe a confirmation that our companions are capable of getting incrementally stronger post cap?

Anyway, this thread is about 650. I wouldn't object to a status resistance being associated with certain ASSUME statuses - but I'm not convinced it's necessary. Does anyone go straight up the 600 spell list and completely neglect the 100's? Used to be common thinking was to arrive at 640/120 by 60 trainings. Post 60 trainings, is there really any situation where you would want to unpoison yourself for 50 mana rather than 14 mana - and - be locked into that aspect for 2 minutes with a 4 minute cooldown?

How about ASSUME HUMMINGBIRD, which grants no enhancive abilities, but simply makes you resistant to STUN, WEB, CURSE, POISON, DISEASE for 2 minutes with a 4 minute cooldown. Or something along those lines.



~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 11:02 AM CST
>Maybe a confirmation that our companions are capable of getting incrementally stronger post cap?

I'm reasonably sure that their capabilities are based on the ranger's level/affinity. If, on the off chance mine is slightly better somehow, the difference is negligible and not visible to me. I haven't noticed that increased ranger spell ranks make any difference, either.

~Brian, Sepher's player
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 01:18 PM CST
>I'm reasonably sure that their capabilities are based on the ranger's level/affinity. If, on the off chance mine is slightly better somehow, the difference is negligible and not visible to me. I haven't noticed that increased ranger spell ranks make any difference, either.

It is far more likely that I am simply not enough post cap to be engaging certain creatures. There have certainly been instances where she tore up the bandits on a bounty.

But I am curious what happens when the ranger hits cap and gains post cap experience. Does the AC likewise incrementally increase, or is she always going to whiff on level 110+ creatures?

Or if you are not morally/IC objected, face the arachnids in the Wyrdeep Forest instance. Terrain, etc, are all favorable for a ranger, but those things are tough and marginally above Turin's skill level. If someone's companion can engage them, then I know it's just me. If no one's companion can engage them, then maybe it's likely our AC's -stop- growing at 100, period - which maybe is something to look at.



~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 01:30 PM CST

In all the invasions and warcamps i find my wolf successful. Same in the forest and the talador invasion. Pup is just barely over cap. I still occasionally release and call him back so not sure if that will help or not.
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 03:38 PM CST
Silly question Bill. Have you dismissed and resummoned your companion since you hit cap? That is to say sent it completely away and re-cast 630? That is when it updates it's stats to match your level.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 09:56 PM CST
>Silly question Bill. Have you dismissed and resummoned your companion since you hit cap? That is to say sent it completely away and re-cast 630? That is when it updates it's stats to match your level.

I don't know that it's a "silly" question. I'm sorry if you're offended that I don't agree with everything you post on the forums lately.

Yes, I have dismissed and resummoned my animal companion. It doesn't change my question, nor my anecdotal observations - therefore, I felt the question was reasonable. If everyone else's anecdotal observation at post cap is that their AC's are able to keep up with post-cap creatures, then that answers my question. No need to call it "silly". I was gone for 5 years.

Have a nice day.


~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/16/2014 10:22 PM CST
I've had a hard time with my companion at times. She has an awesome attack....sometimes. Other times I don't think she could hit the broad side of a barn even is she were standing inside. I NEVER use her to attack, but her counter-attacks when I'm incapacitated (what I call her retribution attacks) are completely awesome sometimes and others she misses every strike, this being on the same critters, all capped or post capped. One thing I have noticed though, capped players are much easier for my companion to take out. I run into this occasionally on missed casts or if they cast something like e-wave and don't see me hidden in the room. The wolf tears them up most of the time if I can't get her stopped.

As for post capped advancement of companions, from my observations of the performance of my wolf I don't think they do. I'm a few mil past cap and I've seen no difference in abilities.

Radeek Andoran




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/17/2014 12:13 AM CST
I don't know that it's a "silly" question. I'm sorry if you're offended that I don't agree with everything you post on the forums lately.
Yes, I have dismissed and resummoned my animal companion. It doesn't change my question, nor my anecdotal observations - therefore, I felt the question was reasonable. If everyone else's anecdotal observation at post cap is that their AC's are able to keep up with post-cap creatures, then that answers my question. No need to call it "silly". I was gone for 5 years.
Have a nice day.

~ Bill, Coyote.


Umm Bill you misunderstood. I mean I was asking a silly question in asking if you had dismissed and resummoned. I figured an experienced ranger such as yourself would already know to dismiss and resummon to level them up. However, you were gone for 5 years so I wasn't sure if you had forgotten about doing that. Your question was perfectly reasonable... Sorry if I offended you. Was just trying to help.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/17/2014 08:37 AM CST
>Umm Bill you misunderstood. I mean I was asking a silly question in asking if you had dismissed and resummoned. I figured an experienced ranger such as yourself would already know to dismiss and resummon to level them up. However, you were gone for 5 years so I wasn't sure if you had forgotten about doing that. Your question was perfectly reasonable... Sorry if I offended you. Was just trying to help.

Ahh, the glory of text. My bad, I misread your post.

Your question, then, wasn't silly. I had my AC running around for months before a little bug forced me to resummon. Heh. I had really never considered the amount of possible updates to AC over 5 years of absence, until recently.

>I NEVER use her to attack, but her counter-attacks when I'm incapacitated (what I call her retribution attacks) are completely awesome sometimes and others she misses every strike, this being on the same critters, all capped or post capped.

Okay. Pup said he's not having any issues at all, but what you're experiencing is closer to my own experience.

*

This is probably best for another thread - sorry to have hijacked the original post. But, Mestys, do AC's know to respond to certain incapacitating bandit CMAN's that do not leave the Ranger stunned, but otherwise vulnerable?



~ Bill, Coyote.
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Update 650 Please 11/17/2014 09:48 AM CST
<Okay. Pup said he's not having any issues at all, but what you're experiencing is closer to my own experience.

It's happened for so long that I just chalk it up to it being the way it was designed to be. I don't think companions are meant to be too powerful. I've also noticed, and it might be coincidence, that she seems to be weaker if I'm dead rather than stunned. Plus, if I am incapacitated in some way with more than one critter in the room she almost never attacks the one who did the damage but instead she goes for the weakest beast in the room. Not a lot of help if the weakest one can't hurt me, ya know?

Radeek Andoran




Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato
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