Any chance of a reduction in the amount of blessing lore for 1613 and spirit summoning lore for 1620 could be reduced for the additional benefits? 40 ranks to max out the additional benefits of these 2 spells seems rather steep. For Guard the Meek, 40 ranks for +5 DS seems really high considering 20 ranks will give you +5 DS/TD for Mantle of Faith and the extra +5 DS benefit for your group is tied to spell ranks. I don't understand why this +5 DS has a separate condition for the group versus self cast.

The 40 ranks required for self cast Aid the Fallen is also a big investment. Like everyone else I try my upmost not to die, but when it happens this spell can make things a whole lot easier for you to be rescued. I'm not sure how many Paladins are actually investing the TPs to take advantage of it though prior to level 75 or post cap.

When you look at the lore chart these two spells just seem to be a bit to high in my opinion and a reduction of lore required for the additional benefits of the spells would be greatly appreciated and provide a little more flexibility for Paladins.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4

I absolutely disagree with this. 1613 has a scaling benefit based on lores and a seed summation, so you see an increased benefit as you get more ranks and no not HAVE to train fully to see a benefit. Having the lores for self-cast 1640 earlier than 70 probably means you focused on a zealot build, or "glass cannon" as some say. This means you're going to die a lot more than a blessings lore paladin, having a much lower DS even fully spelled. As a blessings lore paladin (65 blessings lore, 30 religion, 15 summoning when capped) you really don't die as much. It's a choice in training path and the 40 ranks religion lore requirement was put in place, I feel, to meet a need for the "glass cannon" build who meets that requirement early on.

Of all of the paladin spells we have now with all of the recent changes, i would like to see these two spells untouched for a very long time.

That's exactly the argument with all the classes. IF you train this way you can't trade this way... you don't HAVE to be in full plate by 50. in fact most paladins that come to me for advice i tell them be happy with hauberk or maybe even MBP until you start dying from BS open roll charges around 85-90, then train for full plate if you want it. You don't HAVE to be in plate by 50. It's a choice some paladins make, and by making that choice you're putting those TP's in to a skill to prevent death instead of religion lore to help when you do die.
If you want to have everything, Cap. You can't be good at everything pre-cap with any profession.

150 ranks is the required ranks for minimum spell hindrance for paladin spells which can be attained at level 49 technically if you 3x armor. With rank 4 armor fluidity your spell hindrance is 8%. I fully understand the points that have been brought, but I believe it's very hard to argue against rushing to full plate for the very clear benefits it provides. I had full plate and 120 at level 54 I believe by putting on hold everything else at level 50 and I was using a tower shield and ohe weapon. Once a paladin gets beseech and full plate deaths should be few and far between period unless you're up hunting quite a bit. Whether you have some additional DS from lores isn't going to stop the plain bad luck maneuver deaths. And I think 65 blessing is only providing +15. 10 from 1601 and 5 from 1613.


As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear.

AIM: Kaight (Matt) GS4

I'll agree that the 150 gets rid of the Paladin based spells, but I was referring mostly to the minor spirit which per the wiki site states that it's 290 ranks for Minor Spirit, and 150 for paladin. Unless something changed and I missed it..? But I guess in the end it comes down to the paladin and if they use spiritual in their hunts. Sometimes spirit strike is needed. Other times wall of force, or even an emergency of spirit fogging back. Who knows - maybe they want to cast the light spell (135). Granted, most paladins just use spirit spells just for defense but some of us use the situational battle spells. Just sayin...

Personally, I think 3xing is a mistake since you give up a lot for only a little bit. I, myself, stopped at 200 for rank 5 fluidity since I don't see the point of going further when there are a lot better choices to take as a capped paladin. I can only imagine what I'll do when/if we get our 50th paladin circle which will hopefully be sooner as opposed to later.

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- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night

You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!

* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!

...And I think 65 blessing is only providing +15. 10 from 1601 and 5 from 1613.

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65 ranks blessings lore gives... +15 total damage weighting from 1618, +19% chance to block with a shield from 1609, +20 resist to poison and disease from 104/105, 5% chance to get +25 on a warding roll from 107, +10% chance to activate 115, +21% chance 117 will get a second swing, the ability to cast 120 on others for 2 minutes(Hello! child rescues and escort bounties!), 7 total targets on 1602, 36% chance for a second flare on 1604/1625 flares, +30 health/stam regen with 1607, 7 total targets with 1608, +9 cm ranks from 1611, +20 melee ds from 1613, +15 DS from 1601, and +10 extra HP from 1616. Did I miss something?