For reasons that have been listed by various folks over the years, there are very good reasons for mirroring the smite/bane divide of clerics when discussing Paladins. Unfortunately, there has always been the extremely sticky issue of how to deal with it in a way that won't piss people off. Specifically, given that there's a clear justification for Liabo paladins and clerics being able to attack the undead- it becomes an almost impossible balancing act to find some Lornon equivalent that could possibly make up for suddenly not being able to attack half of the creatures out there. But if we re-frame the question to be less about "what we take away" and more about "what we add" and start thinking about smite/bane as mostly a lore-like effect- it becomes easier. Below are some suggestions I have for adding the smite/bane layer on top of things:
1602: With 25 ranks of religion lore, casting this against an appropriate smite/bane target will immediately add RT equivalent to the lore-modified slow effect. This effect does not stack.
1604: Sanctified weapons will continue to allow one to attack the undead, with the justification that they are infused with Divine energy so powerful that it can simply overcome any specific immunities the undead would have to normal attacks. However, casting 1604 at a sanctified weapon or piece of armor will now impact holy water flares for smite-aligned Paladins and rotflares for bane-aligned paladins. Chances for a second flare are now doubled. Blessings and Summoning lores will now have 25% more effect on the flares than before.
1605: The Paladin will now receive an AvD advantage of 5 against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes
1614: There is now a +3% DS reduction increase and +3% EBP reduction increase against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes
1615: There is now a +10% chance of kneeling against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes and a -10% chance against non-aligned foes (training in religion lore can overcome this penalty completely)
1617: Bane aligned Paladins now receive a base of +40 AS boost from this spell (and -30DS), and Smite aligned Paladins now receive a base of -20DS (and +30 AS). Religion lore continues to affect these numbers in the same was as before.
1618: Damage weighting is now 1.5x higher against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes. Base chance of deity-specific flares is now 10% higher against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes and 5% lower against non-aligned foes.
1620: If the target of this spell is of the same alignment as the cleric, they will be auto-LKd
1625: Base flares now work in the exact same way as the new 1604. At bonding rank 4, the Paladin may also switch the flares to their deity-specific flares (which will only flare against appropriate smite/bane aligned foes). The Paladin can toggle between flare types by casting 1604 at their bonded weapon.
1630: Base chance of kneeling modified identically to 1615
1640: If the target of the spell is of the same alignment as the Paladin, there is a 50% reduction of the spirit penalty. If the target is a follower of a hated foe (Ivas/Oleani; Luukos/Lorminstra, Sheru/Zelia, etc), 1640 will fail and cause an immediate backlash against the Paladin. Use of the APPRAISE verb will let the Paladin know in advance if there is a risk of such a backlash.
SVEN2010
An Attempt Add Smite/Bane Alignment to Paladins In A Way That Won't Cause A Riot
06/08/2015 11:20 PM CDT
CAVEMANIA
Re: An Attempt Add Smite/Bane Alignment to Paladins In A Way That Won't Cause A Riot
06/09/2015 11:47 AM CDT
It was my understanding that atleast one GM did not like the mechanical aspect of the smite/bane system as it applied to Clerics. Atleast I think I remember Oscuro saying so.
I love the system but am of the opinion that there would have to be meaningful negative effects or overall lower base benefits of the effected spells before adding the new alignment bonuses. Otherwise, it will just be an across the board increase in power without any real drawbacks or choices. Given that paladins just got a spell review I dont think that would happen without more drawbacks. Maybe these changes would help:
1604: The secondary flare chance/damage should be reduced or eliminated for inproper alignment but able to be trained away with lore.
1605: -5% and no lore bonus when attacking same-alignment.
1617: base benefit +20/-30, +40/-30 for proper alignment.
1615/1630: reduced damage or crit ranks for inproper alignment. +10%/-10% kneeling bonus based on alignment and impacted by lore as above.
I love the system but am of the opinion that there would have to be meaningful negative effects or overall lower base benefits of the effected spells before adding the new alignment bonuses. Otherwise, it will just be an across the board increase in power without any real drawbacks or choices. Given that paladins just got a spell review I dont think that would happen without more drawbacks. Maybe these changes would help:
1604: The secondary flare chance/damage should be reduced or eliminated for inproper alignment but able to be trained away with lore.
1605: -5% and no lore bonus when attacking same-alignment.
1617: base benefit +20/-30, +40/-30 for proper alignment.
1615/1630: reduced damage or crit ranks for inproper alignment. +10%/-10% kneeling bonus based on alignment and impacted by lore as above.
FALAN
Re: An Attempt Add Smite/Bane Alignment to Paladins In A Way That Won't Cause A Riot
06/09/2015 02:57 PM CDT
Fun read here and I agree with the suggestions for Smite / Bane because it does adds flavor to the RP environment. Why is that Ronanite paladin going after undead all the time and not so much focussed on the living? Simply because he favors killing undead.
The only grey line is when it comes to demons. I can bite into a Liablo going after demons, but some Lornons I would question such as Sheru, Fashlonae, etc. Why would their arkati allow them harm the demon more? From a game balance, I would be in favor regardless though from the point of view of invasions and maybe a justification in that it's a Lornon's way of keeping control of the demon as opposed to the Liablo's wanting to be rid of the foul stench ;-)
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
The only grey line is when it comes to demons. I can bite into a Liablo going after demons, but some Lornons I would question such as Sheru, Fashlonae, etc. Why would their arkati allow them harm the demon more? From a game balance, I would be in favor regardless though from the point of view of invasions and maybe a justification in that it's a Lornon's way of keeping control of the demon as opposed to the Liablo's wanting to be rid of the foul stench ;-)
__________________________
- Kobold in Disguise Falvicar, Blade of the Night
You swing a silver-edged black veil iron katana at Sevynne!
* Sevynne drops dead at your feet!
* Sevynne just bit the dust!
