Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 10:19 AM CDT
I'm starting a new thread to better track the conversation.

A mass Bone Shatter isn't likely to happen. However, I would be willing to look into making Empathic Link (1117) better. Besides for an open cast version that could affect multiple creatures at a time, what other things need to change with the spell to make it viable?

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 12:45 PM CDT
>>A mass Bone Shatter isn't likely to happen.<<
Booo! How about mass wither? OK, you have spell slot 1140 open. Put a mass attack spell here, make it cost 40 base mana, plus maybe 2-3 mana more for every critter hit over 3. Make the cost for using it on a swarm would be great enough that you could only use it a couple of times on a hunt.

>>However, I would be willing to look into making Empathic Link (1117) better.<<
Hah! You would have to work really hard to make it worse.

>> Besides for an open cast version that could affect multiple creatures at a time, what other things need to change with the spell to make it viable?<<
That would be a great first start! Then make it so that the link isn't broken when one of the critters dies.


Oh, the Bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you and not for me
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 01:01 PM CDT
People don't use 1117 because it doesn't transfer killing blows, and high-level combat in GSIV is all about getting quick critical kills. The design mentality was a spell that would be useful for a drawn-out fight against multiple enemies but that's not the reality of combat. Now, it shouldn't simply kill everything if one target dies, that would obviously be overpowered. But it should do something so that setting up the link wasn't a waste of time, maybe nerve damage or mental backlash to disable briefly (it would double as a mass disabler then!).

While we're on the subject of CS/TD checks, why is it that critters have a higher TD vs. 1108 (Empathy) as opposed to all other Empath circle spells?
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 01:23 PM CDT
ZHOUY1
People don't use 1117 because it doesn't transfer killing blows


Unless I am mistaken, I believe the last time I looked into this, it wasn't always the case. The type of attack matters. If people could post some logs, it could help me narrow down the problem.

ZHOUY1
While we're on the subject of CS/TD checks, why is it that critters have a higher TD vs. 1108 (Empathy) as opposed to all other Empath circle spells?


I assume you're talking about Ithzir? It's because they're resistant to mental/emotion based attacks. Bone Shatter (1106) and Wither (1115) utilize mental magic, but they are ultimately physical manifestations.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 01:52 PM CDT
"A mass Bone Shatter isn't likely to happen. However, I would be willing to look into making Empathic Link (1117) better. Besides for an open cast version that could affect multiple creatures at a time, what other things need to change with the spell to make it viable?" -- GM Estild

How would you feel about a combination-magic setup, like Familiar + Familiar Gate [utility, Wizard] or Eye Spy + Evil Eye [combat, Sorcerer]? Something to enable the effect to affect multiple targets... and then casting the effect that reaches out and does its nastiness, whatever that may be.
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 02:34 PM CDT
> Unless I am mistaken, I believe the last time I looked into this, it wasn't always the case. The type of attack matters. If people could post some logs, it could help me narrow down the problem.

Here are logs of three different kills. The first is an arrow to the eye, no transfer on death. The second is direct plasma damage by 1110, no transfer on death. The third is a CS damage cycle from 1110, which does transfer.

Log 1

You are now targeting a dreadnought raptor.
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a dreadnought raptor.
CS: +476 - TD: +147 + CvA: +25 + d100: +46 == +400
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a dreadnought raptor.

You are now targeting a dreadnought raptor.
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a dreadnought raptor.
CS: +476 - TD: +144 + CvA: +25 + d100: +91 == +448
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a dreadnought raptor.

You nock a silvery white faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your ruic composite bow.
You fire a faewood silvery white arrow at a dreadnought raptor!
AS: +378 vs DS: +206 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +13 = +217
... and hit for 60 points of damage!
Incredible shot to the eye penetrates deep into skull!
The dreadnought raptor crashes to the ground, motionless.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a dreadnought raptor fades away.
The silvery white arrow sticks in a dreadnought raptor's left eye!

You nock a silvery white faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your ruic composite bow.
You fire a faewood silvery white arrow at a dreadnought raptor!
AS: +378 vs DS: +226 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +77 = +261
... and hit for 73 points of damage!
Incredible shot to the eye penetrates deep into skull!
The dreadnought raptor crashes to the ground, motionless.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a dreadnought raptor fades away.
The silvery white arrow sticks in a dreadnought raptor's left eye!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Log 2

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a mastodonic leopard.
CS: +476 - TD: +148 + CvA: +25 + d100: +88 == +441
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a mastodonic leopard.

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a mastodonic leopard.
CS: +476 - TD: +139 + CvA: +25 + d100: +46 == +408
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a mastodonic leopard.

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Assault...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
You hurl a radiant ball of energy at a mastodonic leopard!
AS: +496 vs DS: +193 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +42 = +373
... and hit for 125 points of damage!
Encasing plasma cremates the mastodonic leopard's hand leaving a bloody stump!
The mastodonic leopard mewls in pain as she slumps to the ground and licks her wounded left paw.
The mastodonic leopard is stunned!

Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a mastodonic leopard's left hand.
The ripples of wavering energy do 85 points of damage to the leopard.
... 30 points of damage!
Vicious hole burned through the mastodonic leopard's shield hand!
The mastodonic leopard is stunned!
The guiding force leaves you.
Success! Establishing a connection with the mastodonic leopard, your awareness of her physical condition expands as your essence fuses with her own!

You mentally attempt to locate your implanted essence within the mastodonic leopard...
CS: +476 - TD: +136 + CvA: +25 + d100: +83 == +448
Warding failed!
You maintain a nearly perfect connection with the mastodonic leopard, blocking all sensory impulses to self-sustaining functions!
...and cause 154 points of damage!
The empathic presence you planted within the mastodonic leopard exhausts itself.

Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around the mastodonic leopard.
The ripples of wavering energy do 154 points of damage to him!

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Assault...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
You hurl a radiant ball of energy at a mastodonic leopard!
AS: +421 vs DS: +131 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +82 = +400
... and hit for 150 points of damage!
The mastodonic leopard's leg is consumed in an intense field of plasma reducing it to ash!
The mastodonic leopard lets out a final caterwaul and dies.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a mastodonic leopard fades away.
As the mastodonic leopard is vanquished, you refrain from infusing the effort further.

You see a fairly typical mastodonic leopard.
He has a fractured and bleeding left paw.
He has nothing at this time.

Log 3

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a dreadnought raptor.
CS: +476 - TD: +144 + CvA: +25 + d100: +36 == +393
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a dreadnought raptor.

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Link...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
You concentrate on establishing a link between yourself and a dreadnought raptor.
CS: +476 - TD: +135 + CvA: +25 + d100: +84 == +450
Warding failed!
A faint thread of energy forms between you and a dreadnought raptor.

You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Empathic Assault...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
You hurl a radiant ball of energy at a dreadnought raptor!
AS: +496 vs DS: +200 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +81 = +419
... and hit for 186 points of damage!
Powerful blast to the dreadnought raptor's abdomen parboils internal organs!
The dreadnought raptor is stunned!

Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around a dreadnought raptor's abdomen.
The ripples of wavering energy do 146 points of damage to the raptor.
... 40 points of damage!
Powerful blast to the dreadnought raptor's abdomen parboils internal organs!
The dreadnought raptor is stunned!
The guiding force leaves you.
Success! Establishing a connection with the dreadnought raptor, your awareness of its physical condition expands as your essence fuses with its own!

You mentally attempt to locate your implanted essence within the dreadnought raptor...
CS: +476 - TD: +129 + CvA: +25 + d100: +79 == +451
Warding failed!
You maintain a nearly perfect connection with the dreadnought raptor, blocking all sensory impulses to self-sustaining functions!
...and cause 156 points of damage!
The dreadnought raptor crashes to the ground, motionless.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a dreadnought raptor fades away.
The empathic presence you planted within the dreadnought raptor exhausts itself.

Ripples of wavering energy coalesce around the dreadnought raptor.
The ripples of wavering energy do 156 points of damage to it!
The dreadnought raptor crashes to the ground, motionless.
You twinge slightly as your Empathic Link to a dreadnought raptor fades away.
Damage from your empathic link has vanquished the dreadnought raptor!
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 03:20 PM CDT
Empathic link is such an odd spell. It wants to be a disabler by hurting multiple creatures, but it's mostly a setup spell. Setup spells are cast first so that your later spells are stronger or do more. Link is more closely related to other setup spells like 240, 217 and 117. Those three spells are already really good at setting up an attack to do big damage. For Empathic Link to see use, it would need to do something better or different.

Empathic Link mostly fails as a setup spell due to the amount of setup required. Casting it against each target takes more time than just casting 240 or 217 and then attacking. Open casting against multiple targets would help stem this, but when 217 hits a group they are partially disabled due to AS loss on top of the DS/TD loss. Since doing damage (mass bone shatter) is out, Empathic link could do something to disable targets with the initial cast. Some options might be:
Calm each target (The link sedates the mind?)
Silence each target (The link disrupts mana?)
Slow each target (The link confuses motor control?)
More?


Personally I'd like to see a group cast version of the spell. Something that links a party together into a more cohesive fighting team. Make the effect only last a minute or so just like 240. The larger the party, the higher the benefits similar to how Side-by-Side works. Lore training used to increase certain bonuses like:
Telepathy ranks add to CS as minds link together.
Manipulation ranks help guide offensive tactics and generate Attack Strength.
Transformation ranks assist with defensive forms and increase DS.

---Mirrami
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 03:24 PM CDT
"Calm each target (The link sedates the mind?)" -- Mirrami

It doesn't calm them; it's the being overwhelmed by someone (or several someones) else's emotions that makes them incable of acting for a brief while.
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 04:16 PM CDT
Estild, I'm not sure by your question whether you mean open cast is a possibility or not. If it's not, then there's a significant issue with time to setup. By the time you set up against a swarm of more than 2 creatures, something's probably going to take you out with a maneuver attack.

I don't know what can be done there if open cast isn't allowed, but that's my main problem using it.

Rishi
- Player of Kembal




Speaking to Plur, Belnia says, "You're no Kembal."
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 04/16/2014 06:44 PM CDT
>> A mass Bone Shatter isn't likely to happen.

So... you're saying there is a chance!

-- Robert
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 08/22/2014 08:55 AM CDT
Honestly Estild I think an open cast version and the spell functioning right are all that needs to happen. One cast to potentially link everything in a room and then whatever damage you deal to one is mirrored on the others, whether or not the original target is killed, would be a phenomenal crowd setup spell. It would essentially give warpaths mstrike and casters a pseudo mass bone shatter. My only concern would be that it is actually overpowered for 1117.

Keith/Brinret/Shiun

Be nice to Wyrom or I will cut you!
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Re: Empathic Link (1117) 07/21/2015 02:12 PM CDT
I don't know if there's an update slated for 1117, but if suggestions are still being taken, I think it would work very well as a short duration self-cast effect:

Duration: 60s, refreshable
While Empathic Link is active, any successful physical or Empath Base Circle direct damage attack (1) establishes a link between the Empath and their target after approximately 1 second (2). There is no additional warding roll. The link persists for up to 60 seconds or until the self-cast effect ends. ML:Manipulation (3) increases the number of possible simultaneous active targets.

(1) Specifically: 1101, 1106, 1110, 1115. Non-damaging spells like 1108 and 1120 do not qualify, nor do spells outside the circle. (No mass attacks or splash spells.)
(2) Damage cycles from initially landing the spell are not transferred. Killing blows on a second target do get transferred to the first one.
(3) Not Telepathy because it is not a mind-affecting spell but physical manipulation.

This way the spell is equally usable for all empaths, whether they specialize in physical attacks, bolts, or warding spells. There is no potentially wasted set-up time in combat since all you need to do is pre-cast it once. If your first direct attack kills the creature, then the spell has no effect, but otherwise the link happens and you can switch to a secondary target and still keep pressure on the first one. For empaths using Bone Shatter, this only needs to happen 3 times in a minute to make up the mana difference, which is fairly reasonable.
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