Not sure how many clerics would get behind this, or if it has already been brought up, but would it be feasible to have either a deity aligned messaging or Smite/Bane aligned messaging for 306? At the very least change the messaging for living and undead targets? It is hard for me to envision a Lornon aligned cleric spraying anything with "holy water". I believe it would add more flavor to the spell, as it is one of our only profession specific bolt.
BLSLOVE
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/30/2017 07:40 PM CDT
| BLSLOVE |
| It is hard for me to envision a Lornon aligned cleric spraying anything with "holy water". |
The definition of holy is "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred." It's holy regardless of the deity's alignment. It's somewhat subjective, but I don't buy into the idea of dark gods being "unholy".
GameMaster Estild
UNICORN3
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/30/2017 07:47 PM CDT
I play a Lornon cleric, and I am totally opposed to treating those Lornon-aligned as "unholy". Holiness refers to religious fervor, not purity or a misplaced notion that one religion/deity is superior to another. It's not at all subjective that every follower of a specific deity or religion is just as pious in their beliefs as those of any other.
BLSLOVE
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/30/2017 08:15 PM CDT
>>The definition of holy is "dedicated or consecrated to God or a religious purpose; sacred." It's holy regardless of the deity's alignment. It's somewhat subjective, but I don't buy into the idea of dark gods being "unholy".
Wholly generic definitions aside, I agree with you. That is why I was basing my suggestion solely off alignment and not using terms like "holy", "unholy", or "evil" as I do not believe those terms would apply.
>>I play a Lornon cleric, and I am totally opposed to treating those Lornon-aligned as "unholy". Holiness refers to religious fervor, not purity or a misplaced notion that one religion/deity is superior to another. It's not at all subjective that every follower of a specific deity or religion is just as pious in their beliefs as those of any other.
Once again I agree. Lornon arkati are generally considered to have "Darker" connotations, not necessarily being "evil" or "unholy". In my above post I specifically left out such words, and used quotations when I said "holy water"(think of air quotes). My only quibble is that terms such as holy and unholy are broad, general terms and not so nuanced.
I was not suggesting to change the spells name at all, simply tweaking the messaging.
Wholly generic definitions aside, I agree with you. That is why I was basing my suggestion solely off alignment and not using terms like "holy", "unholy", or "evil" as I do not believe those terms would apply.
>>I play a Lornon cleric, and I am totally opposed to treating those Lornon-aligned as "unholy". Holiness refers to religious fervor, not purity or a misplaced notion that one religion/deity is superior to another. It's not at all subjective that every follower of a specific deity or religion is just as pious in their beliefs as those of any other.
Once again I agree. Lornon arkati are generally considered to have "Darker" connotations, not necessarily being "evil" or "unholy". In my above post I specifically left out such words, and used quotations when I said "holy water"(think of air quotes). My only quibble is that terms such as holy and unholy are broad, general terms and not so nuanced.
I was not suggesting to change the spells name at all, simply tweaking the messaging.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/30/2017 08:35 PM CDT
Given the dual pantheon, unholy is probably closer to demonic or extraplanar. Those would be "unholy" sources of power in this world. Power on par with the deities, but not of them.
Least my take.
Least my take.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/30/2017 09:40 PM CDT
| BLSLOVE |
| Wholly generic definitions aside, I agree with you. That is why I was basing my suggestion solely off alignment and not using terms like "holy", "unholy", or "evil" as I do not believe those terms would apply. |
Can you give an example of what you're proposing?
GameMaster Estild
BLSLOVE
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 12:33 PM CDT
Not sure why, but last night I posted examples for you Estild and today I can no longer see the post. Granted, I'm viewing this on mobile and last nights post was from my home computer. Did the post get lost or did it somehow fail to post? I'll check on my end once I get home from work.
KHARIZ555
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 02:20 PM CDT
I never saw the post. I don't think it posted.
BLSLOVE
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 05:12 PM CDT
To repost my missing post...
Something like this is what I was considering, more in line with conversion as opposed to strictly a holy or unholy label.
For instance, a Marluvian Cleric....
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Holy Bolt spell...
Your spell is ready.
You channel at a sea nymph.
You direct a beam of demonic energy at a sea nymph!
AS: +230 vs DS: +7 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +28 = +281
... and hit for 122 points of damage!
Massive blow to right eye sending bone back into the brain!
The sea nymph falls to the ground and dies.
Or perhaps a Phoen Cleric,
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Holy Bolt spell...
Your spell is ready.
You channel at a sea nymph.
You hurl a stream of bright radiance at a sea nymph!
AS: +230 vs DS: +7 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +28 = +281
... and hit for 122 points of damage!
Massive blow to right eye sending bone back into the brain!
The sea nymph falls to the ground and dies.
Little flavor things. I wouldn't expect or want anything else to change about the spell (other than a normalized DF and equal effectiveness against living/undead, but that's just wishful thinking).
Something like this is what I was considering, more in line with conversion as opposed to strictly a holy or unholy label.
For instance, a Marluvian Cleric....
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Holy Bolt spell...
Your spell is ready.
You channel at a sea nymph.
You direct a beam of demonic energy at a sea nymph!
AS: +230 vs DS: +7 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +28 = +281
... and hit for 122 points of damage!
Massive blow to right eye sending bone back into the brain!
The sea nymph falls to the ground and dies.
Or perhaps a Phoen Cleric,
You chant a reverent litany, clasping your hands while focusing upon the Holy Bolt spell...
Your spell is ready.
You channel at a sea nymph.
You hurl a stream of bright radiance at a sea nymph!
AS: +230 vs DS: +7 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +28 = +281
... and hit for 122 points of damage!
Massive blow to right eye sending bone back into the brain!
The sea nymph falls to the ground and dies.
Little flavor things. I wouldn't expect or want anything else to change about the spell (other than a normalized DF and equal effectiveness against living/undead, but that's just wishful thinking).
UNICORN3
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 05:36 PM CDT
I guess the main issue I see with these messaging suggestions is I don't consider either energy or light to be "holy water". I'd rather retain the holy water connotation, especially as this wouldn't make sense when holy water is cast from a more guarded stance to provide a cooling effect rather than an offensive bolt.
BLSLOVE
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 05:48 PM CDT
>>I guess the main issue I see with these messaging suggestions is I don't consider either energy or light to be "holy water". I'd rather retain the holy water connotation, especially as this wouldn't make sense when holy water is cast from a more guarded stance to provide a cooling effect rather than an offensive bolt.
I don't mind that aspect of the spell, nor would I suggest removing it. That could be your water aspect. The name of the spell is simply Holy Bolt, not Holy Water. But I do respect the opinion of others and thank you for sharing it.
I don't mind that aspect of the spell, nor would I suggest removing it. That could be your water aspect. The name of the spell is simply Holy Bolt, not Holy Water. But I do respect the opinion of others and thank you for sharing it.
JL177
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 07:11 PM CDT
I'd rather see a brand new hybrid bolt/warding spell that incorporates this kind of messaging.
ARCHSENEX
Re: Holy Bolt messaging
05/31/2017 07:17 PM CDT
>> I'd rather see a brand new hybrid bolt/warding spell that incorporates this kind of messaging.
Given that water isn't really the "holy substance" of a lot of Deities, that makes sense. Eonak is't really going to be encouraging follower to consider Water holy, and instead would launch holy fire (or holy tempering oil?).
Given that water isn't really the "holy substance" of a lot of Deities, that makes sense. Eonak is't really going to be encouraging follower to consider Water holy, and instead would launch holy fire (or holy tempering oil?).
