Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 10:28 AM CST
Regarding 301, the wiki states that "The duration of this spell is based upon the endroll but not in a simple manner. The minimum duration is 8 seconds (which is more likely to occur on a 101 endroll, but still may happen on a 200 endroll)."

However I have gotten several < 8 second stuns. For example in the following log the stun was ~4 seconds (enough to use one magic item):

You gesture at a n'ecare.
CS: +432 - TD: +323 + CvA: -6 + d100: +100 == +203
Warding failed!
A n'ecare shudders in mid-stride, then suddenly ceases all movement.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>get orb from cl
You remove a heavy quartz orb from in your hooded black cloak.
>rub orb
You rub the quartz orb in your hand.
A sudden clarity of thought comes over you, and you realize that you now understand arcane mysteries that were previously incomprehensible.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>put orb in cl
You put a heavy quartz orb in your hooded black cloak.
The n'ecare breaks free of the force that was holding it.

Without getting into questions of why it should even be possible to get a min 8 second stun on a 200+ endroll with a variable mana cost spell, is the wiki wrong or is the spell working as intended (there is no minimum stun)?
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 11:12 AM CST
VERSIN
Without getting into questions of why it should even be possible to get a min 8 second stun on a 200+ endroll with a variable mana cost spell, is the wiki wrong or is the spell working as intended (there is no minimum stun)?


The minimum is 7 seconds, which looks to be correct in your log. 3 second castRT from casting 301 + 3 seconds of castRT from activating the quartz orb + 1 second then the creature breaks the binding. For this to happen for a high level cleric with a 200+ warding endroll is rare, but there is always a random chance the creature can break out at any point.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 12:48 PM CST
Thank you for the prompt response and confirming the min duration.

In the longer term, can the mechanics of this spell be reviewed? As you note the effective duration is only 4s since it takes 3s to cast the spell. Other disabling spells like Calm (201) have a flat benefit for warding margin, and AFAIK most Sorcerer spells have specific warding margin thresholds. Considering the mana cost increases based on target, it seems inconsistent with other stunning spells to have a 10+ mana spell be affected by a random component in ways other spells are not. Just my two cents.
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 01:54 PM CST
>> In the longer term, can the mechanics of this spell be reviewed? As you note the effective duration is only 4s since it takes 3s to cast the spell. Other disabling spells like Calm (201) have a flat benefit for warding margin, and AFAIK most Sorcerer spells have specific warding margin thresholds. Considering the mana cost increases based on target, it seems inconsistent with other stunning spells to have a 10+ mana spell be affected by a random component in ways other spells are not. Just my two cents.

The effects are technically a bit longer since the bound creature is actually using it's action to break free so you get an additional 'round' (however long until the creatures next action) on top of the 4s. That's one of the challenges I have with Immolation - there is no visual indication when the creature is ignoring the spell effect until the creature is actually taking an action and one of the things that I like about this spell (the visual notification that the critter will be free to do something in about a round).

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 05:16 PM CST
Does it though? Breaking free of 301 is not a creature maneuver, and breaking free is due to "random chance" according to Estild. I have definitely been attacked right after breaking free (realizing that it is hard to show causation).
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 05:20 PM CST
A great challenge question. That's how I assume it works (the bound critter uses its action to try and break free). I don't play my cleric frequently so my experience may be anecdotal and not reflective of how it actually works.

Maybe Estild will enlighten us.

-- Robert

A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/13/2016 05:28 PM CST
It depends. Prayer of Holding (301) is a persistent spell that triggers every 7 seconds. When it triggers, there is a random chance the creature can break out out of the binding and end the spell. The strength of the spell is based upon Cleric spell ranks and the warding margin of the initial cast. With a very high level cleric with a 200+ warding endroll, a creature will only have something like a 5-10% chance to break out when the effect first triggers (7 seconds after the cast). As time goes on, with each new attempt, the strength of the spell gets weaker, so the chance for the creature to break out increases (e.g. the creature might have a 5-10% chance to break on the first attempt, then a 10-15% chance to break on the second, then 15-20%, etc). This break attempt is a part of the spell itself and not a creature action.

However, some creatures innately break immobilization effects and for those creatures, a lot of time it does count as an action (so they usually can't immediately attack you). That's not always the case though and varies for each creature.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 12/19/2016 08:16 AM CST
I think it's always confused me more that undead like lost souls can still fade out while under the effect of this spell. That's not very held looking!




Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. - Albert Einstein
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 01/05/2017 02:54 PM CST
Just confirming this spell is working as intended - the creature attempted to break out right after the spell was cast (not after 7 seconds).

Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a n'ecare.
CS: +424 - TD: +326 + CvA: +13 + d100: +97 == +208
Warding failed!
A n'ecare shudders in mid-stride, then suddenly ceases all movement.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
A n'ecare struggles against the forces holding him without much success.
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 01/05/2017 03:05 PM CST
VERSIN
Just confirming this spell is working as intended - the creature attempted to break out right after the spell was cast (not after 7 seconds).


Yes, it's working correctly. Prayer of Holding (301) does not provide any messaging when a break out attempt is made. It only has messaging when a break out actually happens. The "<creature> struggles against the forces holding him without much success" is generic messaging that a lot of undead will output when they're immobile (from any source) and it doesn't confer any actual attempt to end the effect.

GameMaster Estild
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Re: Prayer of Holding (301) Bug? 01/05/2017 03:54 PM CST
Thanks for the prompt response Estild.
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