- Could always remove the "50% loss" hard cap currently in place...

- Or give a base percentage chance, trainable to increase, to just "luck out" and hit the juicy mana core without having to go through the spells. Hmmm... I'm thinking that "+1% chance per rank of MC:Mental over 24" sounds pretty good as a trained bonus, adding to the 10-20% normal base chance to which I refer...

- Or remove the additional set of randomness for "how much gets taken", since there's already a random result involved in successful casts anyhow (the d100 roll for the warding check)...

- Or implement a Mass version at some Lore breakpoint (ML:Telepathy ranks?) that would work on all enemies in the room at once...

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As a side-note: do you really go through multiple wands at a time? With a decent [fresh, Duplicated blue or crystal] wand, I usually pay out 17 (cast + 1 renew) or some times as much as 21, and get back 40-80 (depending on the wand) between those. That's enough to power a Tonis if I need it, or several Disrupts, and generally can tide me over until I can track down a solo critter that's worth draining, or force a Mana Pulse.

(Regarding the 'mana pulse'... did you also stop at 24 ranks/102 skill of MC:Mental?)

Funny you should say that about the Confluence: everything in there looks like an Elemental, and I've been using the Greater Earth Elementals in the Thanatoph Bowels as one of my staple sources of mana.
(They only very infrequently have even only a single spell on, which means they are reliable sources for easy access to ~41-45 mana. (Which means they actually contain to about 90, see previous research.) Any Unravel where I get >32 in the initial cast, I just stop there and don't even bother with a renewal.)

"Roughly 40" was also what the Treekin Warriors had in the Red Forest, and has been pretty much a target minimum number for me since the Sheruvian Monastery.
(+40 mana, even minus 13 for Unravel and 4 more for a renewal == +23 net, goes a whole lot further when you're only 40th level with 150 mana--and a field pulse is, itself, only +23...--than it does when you've got a much greater mana pool. But +23 usable mana is still +23 usable mana.)

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Are the Confluence elementals significantly worse?

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With that said, I have to confess that I lurve me some Greater Krynch's, though: maybe 20% of the time they have no spells, another 20% or so only 1, maybe 50% of the time wearing 2, and the remaining 10% of the time 3.
Even so, that's only 13+4+4==21 loss, and they easily have 80-95 available to be pulled out.
If I get lucky they have no spells and I get pulls of 33, 35, and 20, or over sixty usable mana.

OK, I have lots more training than 18 months ago in the relevant skills for Unravel.

And it still seems like so much work, and mana, for not much return.

Is this how leeching works for wizards? I know wizards use it a lot, and I cannot imagine I have less patience than wizards...

I think my nervestaff actually ended up flaring up for more mana than unravel brings me. :(

Or do I need a Unravel For Dummies guide? I honestly don't see the allure of it in combat.

Currently: 101 bard songs, 58 Mental Mana control.

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No it isn't how it works for wizards at all. At cap there is no way bards will ever match the awesomeness of 504 the room putting everything in 3-5 seconds of rt, using 916 when needed with 1sec cast rt, and then destroying (albeit by attrition damage often) whatever you want before ewaving/tremor tap for no rt/912 and continuing on and on.

I am pretty sure I used to get 40 mana from scouts and jans and 50 from constructs even with 55 bard songs and 40 mental mana share. Yes it is slower and tedious but...we use so much mana that it comes in handy.

I forgot in nelemar learn sprite TDs when you find one with low spells yoink em for 100-150 mana.

Most areas 85+ seem to have a critter that is good for 1013...if never as great as 516 is for wizards.

GBB

"there is no way bards will ever match the awesomeness of 504 the room putting everything in 3-5 seconds of rt" -- GalenBlackBard

I will note for the record that--during the ELR, when it happened not just to Slow but also to (Spirit Realm?!? WTH?!?!) That Paladin Spell--I have asked for exactly the same capability of "instant RT" to be added to Depression, which is significantly higher in level than either of those others.
AND ALSO / OR for a mass-version of Rage (which apparently gives RT when it hits) to be provided, now that we have Spell Ranks/Lore levels to open up the 'evoke' function (of mass-use-of-single-target-spells/single-target-version-of-mass-spells) set up as a sytem.

I'm not sure whether they would want to put the "give instant-RT" on the same spell (Depression) that adds RT (though I don't know why that would be an issue, since that is precisely how Slow works...), but by giving them the option to split the effect (RT-now on Rage, add-RT on Depression) it may be more likely to come to pass. <shrug>

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Consider this--as well as my previous posts--an open invitation for OTHER bards to also beat that drum in support....

Saturation and Depression is absolutely okay; one is -20 + Air lore, the other is -25 + Fire lore.

As a tangent from the Unravel discussion: I still feel that any spell that gives a penalty to TD like these, should benefit from their own effect when being cast (so Depression would be facing a TD 20 lower, Saturation would be cast at -25 TD... I would probably even be willing to settle for just the base benefit [no lore]).

"That shouldn't be possible. The intended purpose was to make casting 504 a net zero action, resulting in no loss time for performing the action, not as a means to allow additional actions.

GameMaster Estild"

I do not know what to tell you. A net zero action is what it is for most of the game. Much like feint is until you start using it with tonis.

You are the boss and all that but allow me my two cents? The whole point of adding rt to creatures is to allow you to kill them before they kill you. There are plenty of creatures that 504 serves where 410/912/909 don't work. Much like bards have to use 1 second cman feints with tonis then 1-2 second tonis aided attacks to kill creatures immune to 410 before they turn around and kill us. If the combination was never intended were we just supposed to die when hunting those creatures that much more often? Why is one good but not the other? If neither is good then just call me frustrated and disappointed yet again with what I see as a needless nerf bat.

GBB

Here's another proposition: How about make 1013 have a spell stealing option with enough [insert requisite training here]? This would allow the bard to steal a prepared spell of a character or creature and then cast it themselves.