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GemStone IV · Bard Magic, Spells, and Spellsongs

KRAKII

Unravel research 07/31/2018 03:58 PM CDT

So, yeah: test server open! How 'bout that?!?

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Part I -- Spell Removal

Spell Name	Number	Cost [*]
Empath
Spirit Warding I ................... 3:38:46	101	8
Spirit Barrier ..................... 3:39:49	102	13
Spirit Defense ..................... 3:38:42	103	8
Disease Resistance ................. 3:38:25	104	8
Poison Resistance .................. 3:40:49	105	10*
Spirit Warding II .................. 3:38:06	107	9
Water Walking ...................... 3:39:39	112	10
Fasthr's Reward .................... 3:39:32	115	11
Lesser Shroud ...................... 1:18:01	120	12
Spirit Shield ...................... 3:33:58	202	8
Purify Air ......................... 3:34:12	207	9
Bravery ............................ 3:33:35	211	10
Heroism ............................ 3:33:53	215	11
Elemental Defense I ................ 2:44:08	401	4
Elemental Defense II ............... 2:44:03	406	5
Elemental Defense III .............. 2:43:48	414	6
Empathic Focus ..................... 3:44:17	1109	9
Strength Of Will ................... 3:43:11	1119	11
Troll's Blood ...................... 3:44:26	1125	13

Monk
Spirit Warding I ................... 1:36:28	101	8
Disease Resistance ................. 1:35:12	104	8
Poison Resistance .................. 1:35:45	105	9
Spirit Warding II .................. 1:35:15	107	9
Water Walking ...................... 1:36:50	112	11*
Elemental Defense I ................ 2:39:53	401	4
Elemental Defense II ............... 2:40:55	406	5
Elemental Defense III .............. 2:40:57	414	6
Thurfel's Ward ..................... 1:36:10	503	4
Strength ........................... 1:33:38	509	6
Natural Colors ..................... 1:34:14	601	8
Resist Elements .................... 1:32:22	602	8
Mobility ........................... 1:33:53	618	11
Mass Blur .......................... 1:34:26	911	6
Iron Skin .......................... 2:31:44	1202	9
Foresight .......................... 2:30:20	1204	8
Mindward ........................... 2:31:28	1208	9
Dragonclaw ......................... 3:40:24	1209	9
Mind over Body ..................... Indefinite	1213	10
Brace .............................. 2:31:21	1214	10
Blink .............................. 2:31:36	1215	11
Premonition ........................ 2:30:29	1220	13
Meditative Resistance (slash) ...... 2:29:45	---	cannot
Fumble		4

Mage
Elemental Defense I ................ 0:53:16	401	4
Elemental Defense II ............... 0:53:44	406	5
Elemental Defense III .............. 0:53:12	414	6
Elemental Targeting ................ 0:53:24	425	9
Elemental Barrier .................. 0:53:49	430	10
Thurfel's Ward ..................... 0:58:25	503	5
Elemental Deflection ............... 0:56:58	507	5
Elemental Bias ..................... 0:57:05	508	5
Strength ........................... 0:57:20	509	5
Elemental Focus .................... 0:58:37	513	7*
Mage Armor - Fire .................. 0:56:46	520	8
Haste .............................. 0:57:02	535	11
Prismatic Guard .................... 1:13:28	905	5
Mass Blur .......................... 1:14:31	911	6
Melgorehn's Aura ................... 1:13:40	913	6
Call Familiar ...................... 0:59:21	---	cannot

* represents the initial cast, which seems to carry a surcharge of +1 versus what that same spell would have been had it been dropped by a renewal
- I've re-sorted into spell number order, for ease of analysis. They actually came out in quite a different pattern
- it looks like the highest we'll be charged is 13 (standard 4 for renewal, +9 for spell)
- some effects cannot be removed, like a Monk's meditative resistance or a Wizard's familiar
- my second account's Paladin & Sorcerer remain too low in level for me to test against them (Champion's Might, Cloak of Shadows, Pestilence, and whatnot)
- whereas my second account's Bard remains too low to effectively test against my Sorcerer & Ranger & Paladin who actually have all of those spells

.

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Part II -- Mana Stealing

Well, it looks like everyone and their brother is correct: 24 ranks/102 skill of MC:Mental actually is all you need. :(

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- With zero ranks of MC:Mental, you get "int(<amount taken> / 4)" (int, trunc, whatever you're used to dealing with. no fractions, no rounding)
- With 24 ranks/102 skill of MC:Mental, you get "int(<amount taken> / 2)"
* So, the worst you can possibly do, is 1/4 (one quarter) of what gets stripped.
* The best you can possibly do, is 1/2 (half).

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Part III -- Warding Rolls

Against a fresh target, full mana of 189:

CS: +401 - TD: +138 + CvA: +15 + d100: +28 - +30 == +276
You gain 17 mana!
Target says, "34."

CS: +401 - TD: +138 + CvA: +15 + d100: +17 - +30 == +265
You gain 20 mana!
Target says, "40."

CS: +401 - TD: +138 + CvA: +15 + d100: +93 - +30 == +341
You gain 30 mana!
Target says, "60."

CS: +401 - TD: +138 + CvA: +15 + d100: +33 - +30 == +281
You gain 27 mana!
Target says, "Last 55."

Hey, GMs!

Why is it that there is still randomization in the results? (i.e. a lower result nets higher drain? (265 vs. 276); results range from 1 mana /3 warding (55 loss for 181 failure) up to 1 mana / 5 warding (34 loss for 176 failure))

There's already a random result built in... it's called, uhhhhh: the warding check & d100 roll....

LUXELLE

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 07/31/2018 05:02 PM CDT

Did you randomly unravel ... or specifically unravel the spell?

So don't kill me.

But I'm wondering if
prep unravel
sing <target> spellnumber

Costs less than
sing <target>
... and you get the random results

And are those costs duplicatable? Which level bard vs. the target? And what CS vs. TD?

It's ALL FOR SCIENCE, right?

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"

TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews

LUXELLE

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 07/31/2018 05:04 PM CDT

Just read to the bottom ... Over 24 gains us NOTHING?!

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"

TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 07/31/2018 05:30 PM CDT

Good catch!
Targeting a specific spell always costs thirteen (13) mana, as though it were an initial cast at a spell-less target (or item).
(And since targeting Unravel means that the spell cannot be renewed... it always will be an initial cast.)

The costs were generally consistent with what I've seen over 50 levels casting at various targets (before I learned which ones didn't wear spells in that area, and only went after them as batteries). So I don't think it's an issue of "more powerful target" or anything.

I was able to duplicate the +1 mana for hitting that spell with an initial cast, so I'm thinking that's pretty solid. (Noticed it first with GuardII/406, then tried it with Mage Armor/520 to confirm.)
Many of the same spells--as you can see in the table--were the same on several targets (since I tend to spell up all of Me from one account to the other), and the costs were the same, so I feel pretty solid saying that "this spell costs this (with or without the 'first hit' surcharge)".

CS vs. TD was in the "guaranteed hit" range, as you saw. :) (88th level Bard on the test server, casting at a 52nd level Mage.)

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Correct, ranks over 24 MC:Mental does nothing towards Unravel efficacy. I was getting 1/2 return from 24, I continued to get 1/2 return from 65.

On the other hand, I was getting +6/pulse instead of only +2, and three (3) daily "mana spellup" (including the 50 [halved] ranks of MC:Elemental) instead of none... so it's not that they do NOTHING, they just add no benefit to Unravel as I had reported anecdotally.
I'm going to have to assume that my higher/better results were from higher number of Songs known. :)

LUXELLE

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 07/31/2018 08:46 PM CDT

So we only get half because reasons ...

But the good news is the target loses 2x of what we gain!

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"

TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews

KRAKII

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 08/01/2018 08:54 AM CDT

"the costs were the same, so I feel pretty solid saying that "this spell costs this (with or without the 'first hit' surcharge)"." -- Me

Actually, I just noticed that Thurfel's Ward/503 had a different cost on the Mage, and it's an "increasing benefit" spell, so I will have to double-check that one.

I also want to check Premonition & Troll's Blood as the first/only spell on a target, see if the total cost goes to 14 (13 that they already cost +1 initial cast surcharge), or if it's capped at 13.

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I would also want to get some helping Empaths & Clerics, to try the various Bind Blind Web Interdict Silence Sympathy Censure Interference and so on.
(Looks like I am dating myself thinking that Interdict is available to Clerics... le sigh.)

However, that will need to be coordinated, since none of me who know the spells could affect any of me that I could Unravel. :(

LUXELLE

Email Author

Re: Unravel research 08/01/2018 01:33 PM CDT

>Looks like I am dating myself thinking that Interdict is available to Clerics

But creatures still cast it. UGH :(

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"

TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews

GemStone IV · Bard Magic, Spells, and Spellsongs