Do more ranks in first aid/survival always = chance for more silvers from a skin? Or is there a cap at some point for skins?
For example (just making up numbers here) if I skin a puma and the hide is worth 500 silvers at 100 ranks of FA/survival, will I see an increase in silvers all the way up to 500 ranks of FA/survival? Or would I reach a max value of say 750 silvers at 300 ranks and at 500 ranks I'd still see the value of 750 silvers?
If there is a cap on value is this for all skins or just some skins?
TGO04
LAMOREED
Re: Question about skinning
08/10/2010 09:22 PM CDT
As far as I understand it, as long as you get a Magnificent quality skin, that's the highest quality you can get. With that said, the yield price has a certain degree of variance within that quality tier - as with all tiers.
-- dan/gnimble
-- dan/gnimble
ISMANO
Re: Question about skinning
08/10/2010 10:12 PM CDT
>Do more ranks in first aid/survival always = chance for more silvers from a skin?
What Gnimble said.
However, the price quoted you won't necessarily be the max price possible. Don't forget that even if you get the max quality for the skin, the price you get is going to be based on factors outside that player's control (See myklian fiasco). So it's entirely possible to have the best quality without the best price.
>If there is a cap on value is this for all skins or just some skins?
There's a.. skinning pressure (for lack of a better term) for all skins.
-farmer
*
What Gnimble said.
However, the price quoted you won't necessarily be the max price possible. Don't forget that even if you get the max quality for the skin, the price you get is going to be based on factors outside that player's control (See myklian fiasco). So it's entirely possible to have the best quality without the best price.
>If there is a cap on value is this for all skins or just some skins?
There's a.. skinning pressure (for lack of a better term) for all skins.
-farmer
*
| That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy. |
| -Strath |
RATHBONER
Re: Question about skinning
08/11/2010 12:00 AM CDT
>Do more ranks in first aid/survival always = chance for more silvers from a skin?
The way I think it works is:
for every critter there is a cap price (which can fluctuate with hunting pressure in a similar way to other loot)
When you skin a critter there are two hidden rolls,
the first roll sets the quality, if it is anything other than magnificent the cap drops
the second roll sets how close you get to the cap for that particular skin
Only the first roll is significantly affected by your skinning skills. There is always a substantial variation in values of magnificent skins, even when every skin you are getting is magnificent.
The way I think it works is:
for every critter there is a cap price (which can fluctuate with hunting pressure in a similar way to other loot)
When you skin a critter there are two hidden rolls,
the first roll sets the quality, if it is anything other than magnificent the cap drops
the second roll sets how close you get to the cap for that particular skin
Only the first roll is significantly affected by your skinning skills. There is always a substantial variation in values of magnificent skins, even when every skin you are getting is magnificent.
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Question about skinning
08/11/2010 09:39 AM CDT
Doesn't DEX also play a role in how well you skin? Or is my imagination running wild again?
DRUMPEL
Re: Question about skinning
08/11/2010 05:00 PM CDT
>Doesn't DEX also play a role in how well you skin? Or is my imagination running wild again?
It's been a long while, but I seem to recall that your Dex bonus, ranks in FA and Survival (they both play the same factor from what I can recall), plus the weapon used to skin play a role in your ability to skin. Also if you can gain access to the 604 (Skinning) spell. Non-Rangers get a small bonus from it from imbeds, while Rangers get a much better bonus from it when self-cast.
So if you 2x in FA and don't train in Survival, your skinning skill would the same as if you 1x in FA and 1x in Survival or 0x in FA and 2x in Survival.
It's the hidden rolls behind the scenes that end up deciding the quality of the skin and then the price of it, along with how much the critter you've skinned is hunted.
I think that all sounds right.
-Drumpel
It's been a long while, but I seem to recall that your Dex bonus, ranks in FA and Survival (they both play the same factor from what I can recall), plus the weapon used to skin play a role in your ability to skin. Also if you can gain access to the 604 (Skinning) spell. Non-Rangers get a small bonus from it from imbeds, while Rangers get a much better bonus from it when self-cast.
So if you 2x in FA and don't train in Survival, your skinning skill would the same as if you 1x in FA and 1x in Survival or 0x in FA and 2x in Survival.
It's the hidden rolls behind the scenes that end up deciding the quality of the skin and then the price of it, along with how much the critter you've skinned is hunted.
I think that all sounds right.
-Drumpel
SUNDYN2
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 09:12 AM CDT
Just a note: some have conjectured that the skinning formula uses skill bonus and not ranks, meaning that although the skills are equally accounted for in the formula, the diminishing returns that come after the 10/20/30/40 rank threshholds make it less equal if you are 2x/0x in one skill or the other.
ISMANO
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 09:52 AM CDT
I seem to remember somebody on staff commenting on skinning training versus fa. I'm pretty sure it was 2x/0x = 1x/1x = 0x/2x. It really just boils down to what's cheaper and if you're a ranger with 602.
However, it's early and I'm only on 1 cup of coffee so I might be misremembering.
-farmer
*
However, it's early and I'm only on 1 cup of coffee so I might be misremembering.
-farmer
*
| That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy. |
| -Strath |
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 10:32 AM CDT
At this point, it is all conjecture. The website is pretty clear in saying ranks in FA and Survival. Not that the website has never been wrong before, but I'll take what it says over speculation unless those speculating can present hard evidence to back up their claims.
DRIZZT-12
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 01:34 PM CDT
<<I seem to remember somebody on staff commenting on skinning training versus fa. I'm pretty sure it was 2x/0x = 1x/1x = 0x/2x. It really just boils down to what's cheaper and if you're a ranger with 602.
604, just so that no one gets confused to think that 602 is the skinning spell when 604 really is.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
604, just so that no one gets confused to think that 602 is the skinning spell when 604 really is.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 02:19 PM CDT
Rangers also get a gigantic profession bonus right?
Kerl
Kerl
ISMANO
Re: Question about skinning
08/12/2010 02:55 PM CDT
>604, just so that no one gets confused to think that 602 is the skinning spell when 604 really is.
-Adam
Er. Yeah. I blame the coffee for that one.
-farmer
*
-Adam
Er. Yeah. I blame the coffee for that one.
-farmer
*
| That's just what we want, criss-crossing furrows all over the town streets from someone wandering through with their animated plow super buddy. |
| -Strath |
SYLVANCODE
Re: Question about skinning
08/13/2010 09:00 AM CDT
<<Rangers also get a gigantic profession bonus right?>>
I'm not so sure about this one, they probably do get a bonus but not one that is noticeable at cap.
From my experience I would put Empaths as #1, Rangers as #2 and everyone else as #3.
I'm not so sure about this one, they probably do get a bonus but not one that is noticeable at cap.
From my experience I would put Empaths as #1, Rangers as #2 and everyone else as #3.
DONOHO
Re: Question about skinning
08/13/2010 06:53 PM CDT
>From my experience I would put Empaths as #1, Rangers as #2 and everyone else as #3.
This would make sense as empaths can get 5x skinning skills and rangers can get 4x.
Olivier/Chivalrous-Proud inventor of the causality destroying Droit ballista
(OOC) You whisper to Oweodry, "What do you think about that ACT she just did?"
>
(OOC) Oweodry's player whispers, "I think it's called the ACT verb not the IMPLICATE verb."
This would make sense as empaths can get 5x skinning skills and rangers can get 4x.
Olivier/Chivalrous-Proud inventor of the causality destroying Droit ballista
(OOC) You whisper to Oweodry, "What do you think about that ACT she just did?"
>
(OOC) Oweodry's player whispers, "I think it's called the ACT verb not the IMPLICATE verb."
DRIZZT-12
Re: Question about skinning
08/13/2010 08:09 PM CDT
<<This would make sense as empaths can get 5x skinning skills and rangers can get 4x.
From what I understand, 604 gives the equivalent of 25 ranks of FA plus 1 rank per ranger spell rank known. So, if this is exactly rightm then rangers fully 1x'd in the ranger list would be on par with empaths, if not better. Rangers could also easily be better than empaths by being able to go over 1x in spells.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
From what I understand, 604 gives the equivalent of 25 ranks of FA plus 1 rank per ranger spell rank known. So, if this is exactly rightm then rangers fully 1x'd in the ranger list would be on par with empaths, if not better. Rangers could also easily be better than empaths by being able to go over 1x in spells.
-Adam
"You guys took all the pretty places." ~Anonymous
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Question about skinning
08/13/2010 10:14 PM CDT
Don't rangers also get a profession bonus that's quite large, on top of the skinning spell bonus? I think I'd put rangers ahead of empaths, but only due to that.
Kerl
Kerl
ELIZAISGOD
Re: Question about skinning
08/15/2010 11:33 PM CDT
I think you're confusing skinning with foraging. Rangers definitely get a professional bonus to foraging, but I'm not so sure about skinning.
Droit
Speaking to you, the ghostly voice of Kaedra asks, "Have I ever told you, I think you're crazy?"
>
The ghostly voice of Kaedra says, "That was an insane rescue."
Droit
Speaking to you, the ghostly voice of Kaedra asks, "Have I ever told you, I think you're crazy?"
>
The ghostly voice of Kaedra says, "That was an insane rescue."
LORDKRIP
Re: Question about skinning
08/30/2010 01:18 AM CDT
>>Do more ranks in first aid/survival always = chance for more silvers from a skin? Or is there a cap at some point for skins?<<
A little late here, but I thought I'd throw out some things that nobody else seems to have mentioned.
1) In addition to skill and pressure checks, there is also a wound check done on the creature. If you shoot a shambler (which is skinned for a glistening black eye) in the eye, then you can pretty much bet your value will be shot too. Common sense usually prevails in this instance. When it comes to hides/pelts it's usually a back thing, but again common sense usually prevails here.
2) As several people have pointed out, there is the potential for diminishing returns on skinning skills where in it equates to potential value for any given skin. Not all creautres are created equally in this regard, obviously. Some things are very difficult to skin, and will require a substantial amount of skill to even begin to see success. 100, 150, and even 200 ranks or more may be needed for certain creatures, though these are the exception and not the rule.
100 ranks worth of skinning will make you a pretty decent skinner, especially if you are a ranger who can cast 604, otherwise you might want to get 150 ranks. In either case though, once you're certain you can skin the target with relative ease and efficency, the only place you can go to improve value is to the trading skill.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
A little late here, but I thought I'd throw out some things that nobody else seems to have mentioned.
1) In addition to skill and pressure checks, there is also a wound check done on the creature. If you shoot a shambler (which is skinned for a glistening black eye) in the eye, then you can pretty much bet your value will be shot too. Common sense usually prevails in this instance. When it comes to hides/pelts it's usually a back thing, but again common sense usually prevails here.
2) As several people have pointed out, there is the potential for diminishing returns on skinning skills where in it equates to potential value for any given skin. Not all creautres are created equally in this regard, obviously. Some things are very difficult to skin, and will require a substantial amount of skill to even begin to see success. 100, 150, and even 200 ranks or more may be needed for certain creatures, though these are the exception and not the rule.
100 ranks worth of skinning will make you a pretty decent skinner, especially if you are a ranger who can cast 604, otherwise you might want to get 150 ranks. In either case though, once you're certain you can skin the target with relative ease and efficency, the only place you can go to improve value is to the trading skill.
"The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power" - William Shakespeare
NINJAGAR
Re: Question about skinning
10/15/2010 08:23 PM CDT
Old thread, but I wanted to ask about something...
<<This would make sense as empaths can get 5x skinning skills and rangers can get 4x.
Why does this matter? I thought the skinning 'skill' would cap if you either 2x FA, 1x/1x FA and Survival, or 2x Survival? If so, then training additionally in these skills should be redundant (or not contribute additionally to skinning ability/quality). At least, that's as far as I know (and that might not be much!) ;)
<<This would make sense as empaths can get 5x skinning skills and rangers can get 4x.
Why does this matter? I thought the skinning 'skill' would cap if you either 2x FA, 1x/1x FA and Survival, or 2x Survival? If so, then training additionally in these skills should be redundant (or not contribute additionally to skinning ability/quality). At least, that's as far as I know (and that might not be much!) ;)
