All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/20/2015 10:27 AM CDT
Okay, so I was looking to burn off some Bless from a weapon in preparation for Enchanting, and I noticed something interesting: even though I was standing there with my runestaff out, when I grabbed a shield also I started to see a few Block messages come up, along with my normal Evade and Parry with the runestaff.

Sure, it was only maybe a total of about 3-4 of them, in 200-350 swings; call it an average of 1%.
(And the DS numbers didn't change, so I am totally willing to believe that "If Holding Runestaff == You Get No Shield DS" is hard-written in.)

So, two questions then:
1) Is it in fact correct that a runestaff holder has the possibility of using a shield to gain Block, even if the DS does not change? (Specifically, "intended to work, not a bug being abused.")
and
2) If that is in fact kosher, then does single-training still roughly equate to 5% chance and double-training roughly equates to 10% chance of Blocking?

I am totally willing to forgo the DS benefit, if I can gain the Block. :)
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/20/2015 06:31 PM CDT
A runestaff in the right hand shouldn't hurt what you get from a shield in the left, but the shield should hurt what you get from the runestaff (as should anything else bar a few exceptions like wands in your left hand).
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/20/2015 07:31 PM CDT
I find that interesting, because the DS that I was seeing (in Defensive or Guarded) was precisely the number that I would expect to see while I was hunting with the runestaff.

So either the shield--with NO ranks of Shield Use to bump its DS--was giving exactly as good as what it was denying from the runestaff, or... ???

.

.

When you say "hurt what you get" from the runestaff, do you mean "just DS", or do you mean "all of the benefits" (like parrying bolt spells, et cetera)?
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/21/2015 08:21 AM CDT
>So either the shield--with NO ranks of Shield Use to bump its DS--was giving exactly as good as what it was denying from the runestaff, or... ???

Just holding a shield give substantial DS. You need really quite a lot of training before the training contribution becomes similar to the base DS. particularly with high enchant shields.

Or the standard penalty wasn't big enough for your situation and there's a cap in place to make sure you don't actually benefit. You'd have to do some experimenting with different objects in your hands to work it out. There's a long standing bug concerning whether of not you are trained in the item in your right hand for DS against ranged so stick to melee attacks for your experiments to avoid that weirdness confusing the issue.
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/21/2015 08:44 AM CDT
Hasted Swings O' Plenty in my future, I see.

Thanks for the pointers.
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/21/2015 10:32 AM CDT
Why not just cast 119 on the shield?

That's alot of swings and time to remove a bless the hard way.
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 09/21/2015 11:02 AM CDT
I hasted the wizard and used an untrained weapon, so there was no danger and the time needed was reduced. This way, I got to see something interesting, and maybe open up some additional training that I can think about. :)
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Re: All about Shields... (and EBP, DS, and so on) 10/13/2015 09:14 AM CDT
Roblar, the bless was on the weapon, not the shield. I happened to use a (Sonic) shield with a (Sonic) runestaff wielder, which is when I noticed the Blocks happening.

Testing confirmed what I had seen: shield with runestaff == Block can happen.

In further research--and still with precisely 0 ranks of shield use--I confirmed that everything does in fact work: I happened to have four consecutive (Hasted) swings, one each AS/DS, Evade, Block, and Parry.
So even with a shield, the Runestaff lets you Parry.
(To include spells! RapidFire shockbolt confirms Parry.)
Even with a Runestaff, the shield lets you Block.
Evade always works.

.

So I promptly trained up 50 ranks of Shield Use on the runestaff-casting bard, whistled up a +31 Sonic Tower Shield (encumbers as Medium), to go with my sonic flaring runestaff, and jacked my DS up by a bunch/added Block to my defenses to boot.

In another few levels, I'll probably start adding Dodge, too. :)

Win win win all around.
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