Level 41 warrior.
ZERO encumbrance
48 trainings in Swim
Wearing hauberk armor
No helm
CANNOT swim in or out of Monastery
That is Ridiculous
Tried for 10 straight minutes
Healed down due to blood loss from cold water
Tried another 5 minutes
No wounds no Scars
What is the issue?
Anyone have a clue?
STEPHENSB
KRAKII
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
05/26/2015 12:22 PM CDT
You didn't say, but I assume that you have 80 ranks (or more!) of Armor Use as well, to reduce the Action Penalty to the normal minimum (or lower, if you are more highly trained)?
Did you have Water Walking active on you at the time? (It used to be impossible to swim at all if you did, but I think that just recently got adjusted.)
Did you have Water Walking active on you at the time? (It used to be impossible to swim at all if you did, but I think that just recently got adjusted.)
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
05/26/2015 01:41 PM CDT
The problem with GS swimming mechanics is that they're different for just about every place.
RATHBONER
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
05/27/2015 06:18 AM CDT
>Did you have Water Walking active on you at the time? (It used to be impossible to swim at all if you did, but I think that just recently got adjusted.)
I think it now counts as a bug if water walking stops you swimming here, but its RR swims that I recall actually being announced as different, not this one.
I think it now counts as a bug if water walking stops you swimming here, but its RR swims that I recall actually being announced as different, not this one.
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/02/2015 03:10 AM CDT
Quite late on this, but I was the one who (in this instance) brought up the discussion on Water Walking for Maelstrom Bay.
At the time, I further inquired about possible other outstanding locations, which I believe I listed as the Wolves' Den, Darkstone, and the Monastery. The GMs informed me these had all been fixed.
There was a fairly extensive recent discussion about climbing near the Hidden Plateau with heavy armor. The basic argument I would use also applies here. Get a gold ring to the MC if nothing else works.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
At the time, I further inquired about possible other outstanding locations, which I believe I listed as the Wolves' Den, Darkstone, and the Monastery. The GMs informed me these had all been fixed.
There was a fairly extensive recent discussion about climbing near the Hidden Plateau with heavy armor. The basic argument I would use also applies here. Get a gold ring to the MC if nothing else works.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
ARIETTA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/02/2015 11:34 PM CDT
<<<<There was a fairly extensive recent discussion about climbing near the Hidden Plateau with heavy armor. The basic argument I would use also applies here. Get a gold ring to the MC if nothing else works.>>>>
I agree with this. Prior to ;go2 almost nobody walked to the Misty Chamber. Few even knew it was possible, as gold rings were the accepted and expected means of transport. There are places in the game that are meant to be a challenge to get to. Unfortunately, ;go2 has virtually eliminated that challenge. I've met people who routinely hunt places like the Broken Lands or Darkstone who have absolutely no idea how to work any of the puzzles there. I think that's a pity. Although climbing or swimming isn't exactly a "puzzle"...it's still meant to provide challenge and give those skills purpose, as well as reward those who choose to invest in them.
~ GtG
I agree with this. Prior to ;go2 almost nobody walked to the Misty Chamber. Few even knew it was possible, as gold rings were the accepted and expected means of transport. There are places in the game that are meant to be a challenge to get to. Unfortunately, ;go2 has virtually eliminated that challenge. I've met people who routinely hunt places like the Broken Lands or Darkstone who have absolutely no idea how to work any of the puzzles there. I think that's a pity. Although climbing or swimming isn't exactly a "puzzle"...it's still meant to provide challenge and give those skills purpose, as well as reward those who choose to invest in them.
~ GtG
KRAKII
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 09:26 AM CDT
At one point I heard that the doors were stuck open (i.e. no longer requiring a certain profession's spell assistance to get through). Is that still the case?
.
Also, I think Climbing and Swimming themselves should be removed from the game, just like Pick Pockets. When we did the GS4 conversion, Jesh posted his Rogue at (well beyond) cap: twenty (20) ranks of each. More than enough, he said, to get him into ANY area in the game.
And he was right.
The problem with skill checks for Climbing and Swimming to get into areas is that if people don't have them--because they never needed them, so they never trained in them--then they can't get in. So they don't hunt there. So the areas become less populated, because fewer people hunt (because there's nobody there, so no rescues). Until eventually you have areas built that no-one goes to, because no-one's there, so there's no need to go there, and the only people who could get in anyhow are the ones Transferring/225 to your corpse, only they won't, because no-one hunts there to die there.
The GMs need to have realistic Climb and Swim checks for areas they're building (like ".75x to even attempt it"), with varying degrees of failure (like "you wind up draped across a rock on the shore, puking up half the river" with chest injuries [lungs] and RT and so on). Climbing needs to have skill checks to avoid falling, harder ones to STOP falling, and so on. Requiring equipment might help [axe, pitons, rope, spiked shoes].
And then they should STICK TO THEIR GUNS. No, you cannot Transfer in. Nor Spirit Guide [or Voln fog, or Song of Tavern-Finding, or Sign of Runaway, or...] out. You hump it in, you hump it out. All up and down across the range of levels. Have people EXPECT to be required to have Climbing and Swimming, and they will train in it.
It worked with Perception, when they finally did that.
OR they should just remove the skills (and minor point sinks) entirely, simply because they do not already (and are unlikely to switch to) follow such a paradigm.
.
Also, I think Climbing and Swimming themselves should be removed from the game, just like Pick Pockets. When we did the GS4 conversion, Jesh posted his Rogue at (well beyond) cap: twenty (20) ranks of each. More than enough, he said, to get him into ANY area in the game.
And he was right.
The problem with skill checks for Climbing and Swimming to get into areas is that if people don't have them--because they never needed them, so they never trained in them--then they can't get in. So they don't hunt there. So the areas become less populated, because fewer people hunt (because there's nobody there, so no rescues). Until eventually you have areas built that no-one goes to, because no-one's there, so there's no need to go there, and the only people who could get in anyhow are the ones Transferring/225 to your corpse, only they won't, because no-one hunts there to die there.
The GMs need to have realistic Climb and Swim checks for areas they're building (like ".75x to even attempt it"), with varying degrees of failure (like "you wind up draped across a rock on the shore, puking up half the river" with chest injuries [lungs] and RT and so on). Climbing needs to have skill checks to avoid falling, harder ones to STOP falling, and so on. Requiring equipment might help [axe, pitons, rope, spiked shoes].
And then they should STICK TO THEIR GUNS. No, you cannot Transfer in. Nor Spirit Guide [or Voln fog, or Song of Tavern-Finding, or Sign of Runaway, or...] out. You hump it in, you hump it out. All up and down across the range of levels. Have people EXPECT to be required to have Climbing and Swimming, and they will train in it.
It worked with Perception, when they finally did that.
OR they should just remove the skills (and minor point sinks) entirely, simply because they do not already (and are unlikely to switch to) follow such a paradigm.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 09:48 AM CDT
To the original poster in this thread. Did you try simply removing your armor (putting it in your pack) and then swimming?
>> The problem with skill checks for Climbing and Swimming to get into areas is that if people don't have them--because they never needed them, so they never trained in them--then they can't get in. So they don't hunt there. So the areas become less populated, because fewer people hunt (because there's nobody there, so no rescues). Until eventually you have areas built that no-one goes to, because no-one's there, so there's no need to go there, and the only people who could get in anyhow are the ones Transferring/225 to your corpse, only they won't, because no-one hunts there to die there.
I'm having some trouble with your argument here Krakii, so maybe I am missing a key point? Quite a number of people hunt in Pinefar, Nelemar, and the Rift, as three examples off the top of my head. All of these areas have climbing/swimming skill check requirements. My general approach it to train Climbing or Swimming as needed for the areas I want to hunt, not to hunt where I don't need to train these skills.
Also, swimming and climbing have additional utility besides entry checks into areas. As an example, I maxed out my swimming because it provides a significant bonus against being drowned in the temple by the denizens, not because it was required to enter an area.
I admit I haven't (yet) hunted every hunting ground in the game but which hunting areas do you have in mind when you say they are basically dead (not hunted) due to unrealistic climbing/swimming check requirements?
>> The problem with GS swimming mechanics is that they're different for just about every place.
I do agree that the usage of these mechanics should be standardizes somewhat unless there is something specific to the area that justifies a departure from the standard.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
>> The problem with skill checks for Climbing and Swimming to get into areas is that if people don't have them--because they never needed them, so they never trained in them--then they can't get in. So they don't hunt there. So the areas become less populated, because fewer people hunt (because there's nobody there, so no rescues). Until eventually you have areas built that no-one goes to, because no-one's there, so there's no need to go there, and the only people who could get in anyhow are the ones Transferring/225 to your corpse, only they won't, because no-one hunts there to die there.
I'm having some trouble with your argument here Krakii, so maybe I am missing a key point? Quite a number of people hunt in Pinefar, Nelemar, and the Rift, as three examples off the top of my head. All of these areas have climbing/swimming skill check requirements. My general approach it to train Climbing or Swimming as needed for the areas I want to hunt, not to hunt where I don't need to train these skills.
Also, swimming and climbing have additional utility besides entry checks into areas. As an example, I maxed out my swimming because it provides a significant bonus against being drowned in the temple by the denizens, not because it was required to enter an area.
I admit I haven't (yet) hunted every hunting ground in the game but which hunting areas do you have in mind when you say they are basically dead (not hunted) due to unrealistic climbing/swimming check requirements?
>> The problem with GS swimming mechanics is that they're different for just about every place.
I do agree that the usage of these mechanics should be standardizes somewhat unless there is something specific to the area that justifies a departure from the standard.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 01:21 PM CDT
>At one point I heard that the doors were stuck open (i.e. no longer requiring a certain profession's spell assistance to get through). Is that still the case?
I'm going to check this about now. Beacon Hall's Frontier Days event is a ki-lin hunt. I reported the stuck door about a year or more ago, so I hope it was fixed.
>. There are places in the game that are meant to be a challenge to get to. Unfortunately, ;go2 has virtually eliminated that challenge. I've met people who routinely hunt places like the Broken Lands or Darkstone who have absolutely no idea how to work any of the puzzles there. I think that's a pity. Although climbing or swimming isn't exactly a "puzzle"...it's still meant to provide challenge and give those skills purpose, as well as reward those who choose to invest in them.
I had a post a few years back lamenting that many puzzles were nerfed. The Monastery used to require much more impressive tricks to enter. If I say more, my post will get pulled. Which is hilarious since the puzzle in question was nerfed by modern mechanics...and I can't even talk about puzzles the GMs nerfed to say they nerfed them. I love this game, but sometimes I just have to smile.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I'm going to check this about now. Beacon Hall's Frontier Days event is a ki-lin hunt. I reported the stuck door about a year or more ago, so I hope it was fixed.
>. There are places in the game that are meant to be a challenge to get to. Unfortunately, ;go2 has virtually eliminated that challenge. I've met people who routinely hunt places like the Broken Lands or Darkstone who have absolutely no idea how to work any of the puzzles there. I think that's a pity. Although climbing or swimming isn't exactly a "puzzle"...it's still meant to provide challenge and give those skills purpose, as well as reward those who choose to invest in them.
I had a post a few years back lamenting that many puzzles were nerfed. The Monastery used to require much more impressive tricks to enter. If I say more, my post will get pulled. Which is hilarious since the puzzle in question was nerfed by modern mechanics...and I can't even talk about puzzles the GMs nerfed to say they nerfed them. I love this game, but sometimes I just have to smile.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 02:03 PM CDT
Gonna room bug this, it's STILL OPEN TWO YEARS LATER.
Also, I swam in like this:
>You are beginning to stoop under the load you are carrying, and your reactions are slow. Hope you don't have to dodge anything.
>Swimming...........................| 140 40
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>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
Also, I swam in like this:
>You are beginning to stoop under the load you are carrying, and your reactions are slow. Hope you don't have to dodge anything.
>Swimming...........................| 140 40
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 02:08 PM CDT
Sorry (not really) to reply to myself a lot.
I did wonder what a warrior was going to do about the (normally closed) door after the swim. As far as the OP. Swimming through is one thing but, most warriors alone cannot get past the door which is supposed to be closed.
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>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I did wonder what a warrior was going to do about the (normally closed) door after the swim. As far as the OP. Swimming through is one thing but, most warriors alone cannot get past the door which is supposed to be closed.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DOUG
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/03/2015 08:41 PM CDT
>>Gonna room bug this
If I'm not mistaken, this portal has been this way for more than a decade. I suspect (recall seeing) that there were complaints about only one class having a means to get beyond the portal without any other assistance. I suspect (am guessing) that there was a release strategy of things like bash, etc., that might have been planned to get other professions involved, but that (might have) never really happened. And so the door remains open.
Pretty powerful wizard finally got to it, I reckon.
Doug
If I'm not mistaken, this portal has been this way for more than a decade. I suspect (recall seeing) that there were complaints about only one class having a means to get beyond the portal without any other assistance. I suspect (am guessing) that there was a release strategy of things like bash, etc., that might have been planned to get other professions involved, but that (might have) never really happened. And so the door remains open.
Pretty powerful wizard finally got to it, I reckon.
Doug
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/05/2015 05:21 AM CDT
You might be right.
But I recall hunting there with my wife's character, and Kaldonis was helping her. As far as I recall, at that time we had to use 407 to open the door (so it wasn't limited to just one profession). But, when I came back with my paladin like a year and a half ago, it was stuck open. There are quite a number of places that require 407 to open a door, so I don't think this would be unique at all.
At the time I made the post a few years ago (? Maybe more recent) the "puzzle" I discussed was pulled from the forums. But that wouldn't make any sense if the door is supposed to be stuck open.
I'll check my log files and see if I can confirm for you or not!
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
But I recall hunting there with my wife's character, and Kaldonis was helping her. As far as I recall, at that time we had to use 407 to open the door (so it wasn't limited to just one profession). But, when I came back with my paladin like a year and a half ago, it was stuck open. There are quite a number of places that require 407 to open a door, so I don't think this would be unique at all.
At the time I made the post a few years ago (? Maybe more recent) the "puzzle" I discussed was pulled from the forums. But that wouldn't make any sense if the door is supposed to be stuck open.
I'll check my log files and see if I can confirm for you or not!
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/05/2015 05:24 AM CDT
March 20th, 2012:
[Huge Cavern]
A large stone structure rises up out of the sandy cavern floor. It appears as if the face of this building has been carved from the very rock of the cavern, since you can see neither joint nor seam where the structure meets the cavern wall. Six massive stone columns support a narrow roof which juts out over the few steps in front of a huge set of stone doors.
Obvious exits: east
>go doors
You cannot quite manage to squeeze between the stone doors.
>prep 407
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Unlock spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast doors
You gesture at some stone doors.
Some stone doors suddenly flies open.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>go doors
You limp through some stone doors.
[Monastery, Atrium]
This large room appears to have been carved from solid rock. The walls, floor, and ceiling are totally seamless, leaving no evidence that stones have been fitted together to form this structure. There are several high-backed chairs, also carved from solid stone, and several low stone tables. Each of the heavy-looking pieces of furniture resembles a piece of art, having its own unique pattern of mineral deposits. You also see a lever and some stone doors.^M
Obvious exits: west
Hopefully using 407 isn't a game secret. It surely isn't when the doors are stuck open!
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
[Huge Cavern]
A large stone structure rises up out of the sandy cavern floor. It appears as if the face of this building has been carved from the very rock of the cavern, since you can see neither joint nor seam where the structure meets the cavern wall. Six massive stone columns support a narrow roof which juts out over the few steps in front of a huge set of stone doors.
Obvious exits: east
>go doors
You cannot quite manage to squeeze between the stone doors.
>prep 407
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Unlock spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast doors
You gesture at some stone doors.
Some stone doors suddenly flies open.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>go doors
You limp through some stone doors.
[Monastery, Atrium]
This large room appears to have been carved from solid rock. The walls, floor, and ceiling are totally seamless, leaving no evidence that stones have been fitted together to form this structure. There are several high-backed chairs, also carved from solid stone, and several low stone tables. Each of the heavy-looking pieces of furniture resembles a piece of art, having its own unique pattern of mineral deposits. You also see a lever and some stone doors.^M
Obvious exits: west
Hopefully using 407 isn't a game secret. It surely isn't when the doors are stuck open!
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/05/2015 08:30 PM CDT
Though, I agree it still might not be a bug:
>look doors
>The doors seem to have been carved from the rock face of the cavern wall itself. You cannot see any seams where the stones may have been fitted together. They appear to be stuck in the open position, solid and immovable.
I'm kind of curious when this happened and why. Should the graveyard gates, and the one inside the stronghold, the frozen battlefield, and other such places get the doors propped open, too? I never even got past the door in the labyrinth, so I guess that's a good candidate, too. /sarcasm
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
>look doors
>The doors seem to have been carved from the rock face of the cavern wall itself. You cannot see any seams where the stones may have been fitted together. They appear to be stuck in the open position, solid and immovable.
I'm kind of curious when this happened and why. Should the graveyard gates, and the one inside the stronghold, the frozen battlefield, and other such places get the doors propped open, too? I never even got past the door in the labyrinth, so I guess that's a good candidate, too. /sarcasm
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
GS4-KEIOS
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 01:11 PM CDT
>>Hopefully using 407 isn't a game secret. It surely isn't when the doors are stuck open!
If I had to guess, the door was made to work with Unlock after some updates to familiars broke the sewer quest.
Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)
-KEIOS
If I had to guess, the door was made to work with Unlock after some updates to familiars broke the sewer quest.
Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)
-KEIOS
| Keios is pretty amazing. ~Wyrom |
DOUG
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 01:27 PM CDT
ROFL!
And a new age of exploration and experimentation begins.
Doug
And a new age of exploration and experimentation begins.
Doug
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 01:37 PM CDT
I think it would be great if all the swimming areas were brought under one set of mechanics, preferably those used in the bay in River's Rest, since they're the coolest of all the swimming mechanics. How difficult would it be to modify them in the various places, so that swimming worked the same way everywhere it was used? Why would it be any other way?
GS4-KEIOS
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 02:57 PM CDT
Could you please clarify what you mean by one set of mechanics? A direct swim check to get through a portal is not quite the same scenario as swimming around Maelstrom.
-KEIOS
-KEIOS
| Keios is pretty amazing. ~Wyrom |
KRAKII
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 03:53 PM CDT
For my part, higher level areas should have tougher checks to get into. (See my example of Jesh after the GS4 conversion: 20 ranks == "enough", of both Climb and Swim.)
Realism counts, too: swimming from the mainland to Teras might could be possible--especially for someone who can cast Manna--but there should be repeated skill checks, at different times, and different difficulties, and so on.
Most folks here know that I'm active with the Boy Scouts, and have several times hiked Philmont. Most of the 'rivers' there are barely worthy of the appellation of 'creek', but some do have pretty fair regular flow.
Last week, a Scout was killed during a flash flood situation where a creek topped its banks and swept out a campsite. That campsite was on a bench (large flat area on the side of a hill) about 20' above the creek, and the ravine at that point was about 25' wide.
Just THINK about the volume of water that needs to be involved to raise a creek up to its normal banks... AND THEN TWENTY FEET higher, and TWENTY FIVE FEET across. (The normal creek is about 3-5' wide, inside its banks.) That is a HUGE volume of water, but when you are gathering runoff from land area measured by 'acre' and 'square mile', even an inch or two deluge can spell horrendous trouble.
I'm not saying that it should always be possible for fluke weather to kill us: I think mostly the weather effects here are flavor more than anything, and always barring the cold up in the Northlands. But if there's an open-effect roll, then maybe we need to have a whole potload of ranks trained up, or count on that open-skill roll to save our butt....
Realism counts, too: swimming from the mainland to Teras might could be possible--especially for someone who can cast Manna--but there should be repeated skill checks, at different times, and different difficulties, and so on.
Most folks here know that I'm active with the Boy Scouts, and have several times hiked Philmont. Most of the 'rivers' there are barely worthy of the appellation of 'creek', but some do have pretty fair regular flow.
Last week, a Scout was killed during a flash flood situation where a creek topped its banks and swept out a campsite. That campsite was on a bench (large flat area on the side of a hill) about 20' above the creek, and the ravine at that point was about 25' wide.
Just THINK about the volume of water that needs to be involved to raise a creek up to its normal banks... AND THEN TWENTY FEET higher, and TWENTY FIVE FEET across. (The normal creek is about 3-5' wide, inside its banks.) That is a HUGE volume of water, but when you are gathering runoff from land area measured by 'acre' and 'square mile', even an inch or two deluge can spell horrendous trouble.
I'm not saying that it should always be possible for fluke weather to kill us: I think mostly the weather effects here are flavor more than anything, and always barring the cold up in the Northlands. But if there's an open-effect roll, then maybe we need to have a whole potload of ranks trained up, or count on that open-skill roll to save our butt....
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 06:41 PM CDT
>> Could you please clarify what you mean by one set of mechanics?
I can think of a few inconsistent swimming mechanics off the top of my head. Maybe people can take this list and add more:
1) Swimming Maelstrom bay has highly variable RT and seems to be very susceptible to encumbrance vs. other areas which seem to have different RT ranges and lesser susceptibility to encumbrance (or at least seem to handle encumbrance differently).
2) The swim RT has different top and bottom ranges in different areas and seem to be driven/impacted by mechanics (encumbrance, swim skill) to varying (inconsistent) degrees. Granted that swimming in a pond would be different than swimming upstream than swimming in the ocean.
3) Some areas you can swim in armor (entrance to nelemar, the rift) and some areas absolutely will not allow you to swim in armor regardless of skill, encumbrance, etc. (maelstrom bay).
4) In some areas haste will reduce swim RT (Maelstom Bay) and in others haste has no bearing on swim time (entrance to Nelemar).
5) I haven't done the testing on this but am guessing that the time you can spend underwater (holding your breath) various from area to area.
6) I believe the allowable actions (verbs) while swimming vary from area to area as well - will need to do some testing when I have more time to confirm.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
I can think of a few inconsistent swimming mechanics off the top of my head. Maybe people can take this list and add more:
1) Swimming Maelstrom bay has highly variable RT and seems to be very susceptible to encumbrance vs. other areas which seem to have different RT ranges and lesser susceptibility to encumbrance (or at least seem to handle encumbrance differently).
2) The swim RT has different top and bottom ranges in different areas and seem to be driven/impacted by mechanics (encumbrance, swim skill) to varying (inconsistent) degrees. Granted that swimming in a pond would be different than swimming upstream than swimming in the ocean.
3) Some areas you can swim in armor (entrance to nelemar, the rift) and some areas absolutely will not allow you to swim in armor regardless of skill, encumbrance, etc. (maelstrom bay).
4) In some areas haste will reduce swim RT (Maelstom Bay) and in others haste has no bearing on swim time (entrance to Nelemar).
5) I haven't done the testing on this but am guessing that the time you can spend underwater (holding your breath) various from area to area.
6) I believe the allowable actions (verbs) while swimming vary from area to area as well - will need to do some testing when I have more time to confirm.
-- Robert
"Wyrom isn't interacting with me, I think he is AFK scripting."
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/06/2015 10:38 PM CDT
I don't know if I can explain it more clearly than to say the mechanics are different. Take the bay in River's Rest: you can swim up, down, and all the cardinal directions. You can run out of air, and you're wet when you get out. You also can't wear heavy armor to swim successfully. Now compare that to swimming into the rift: you swim down, then find the entry point, then swim ne/nw/ne... till you reach the end and you swim up. You can die in the process if you're too slow, but it's quite clear that the mechanics of it are very different. There are half a dozen other examples out there. Basically, the appearance is that every time someone wanted swimming to be a required skill, they handled it differently than it was done the previous time. Compare that to combat, that has a set of rules that are relatively consistent. If swimming were also relatively consistent, that would add to the realism of it, and might result in more people training for it, because they would have a better idea of what to expect.
Kerl
Kerl
ARIETTA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/07/2015 06:02 AM CDT
<<<Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)-KEIOS>>>
Awesome. :)
~ GtG
Awesome. :)
~ GtG
ARIETTA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/07/2015 06:13 AM CDT
...except it's not working.
>tell familiar to go XXXX
You sense uncertainty from your tree frog and it refuses to proceed.
You sense confusion from your tree frog.
~ GtG
>tell familiar to go XXXX
You sense uncertainty from your tree frog and it refuses to proceed.
You sense confusion from your tree frog.
~ GtG
GS4-KEIOS
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/07/2015 08:53 PM CDT
>>tell familiar to go XXXX
>You sense uncertainty from your tree frog and it refuses to proceed.
>You sense confusion from your tree frog.
Looked into this. Please confirm that it works now?
-KEIOS
>You sense uncertainty from your tree frog and it refuses to proceed.
>You sense confusion from your tree frog.
Looked into this. Please confirm that it works now?
-KEIOS
| Keios is pretty amazing. ~Wyrom |
ROLFARD
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/07/2015 10:42 PM CDT
Went down there and inspected and completed the original method of entering the misty chamber. I had to slay no less than 2 wizards in making of this film.
ARIETTA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/08/2015 01:23 AM CDT
<<<Looked into this. Please confirm that it works now?>>>
I ran the puzzle earlier and it worked fine, with a couple caveats. One, there used to be some creatures in the sewer that could potentially hamper progress. No sign of anything like that now. And two, it didn't seem like the puzzle was resetting after being done. On the latter point, it's possible it's on a timer and I simply didn't wait long enough.
One final point, it appears not to work for minor demons. This isn't surprising considering demons didn't exist when it was created. But it would be keen if the smaller (or gaseous) demon types could complete the puzzle. :)
In any case, thanks so much for working on this! It will probably irritate a lot of people who don't know about the puzzle. All the better! Kidding aside, it's great to see such a cool piece of Elanthian nostalgia restored to working order. Yay! :)
~ GtG
I ran the puzzle earlier and it worked fine, with a couple caveats. One, there used to be some creatures in the sewer that could potentially hamper progress. No sign of anything like that now. And two, it didn't seem like the puzzle was resetting after being done. On the latter point, it's possible it's on a timer and I simply didn't wait long enough.
One final point, it appears not to work for minor demons. This isn't surprising considering demons didn't exist when it was created. But it would be keen if the smaller (or gaseous) demon types could complete the puzzle. :)
In any case, thanks so much for working on this! It will probably irritate a lot of people who don't know about the puzzle. All the better! Kidding aside, it's great to see such a cool piece of Elanthian nostalgia restored to working order. Yay! :)
~ GtG
SIWAS
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/08/2015 10:24 PM CDT
>If I had to guess, the door was made to work with Unlock after some updates to familiars broke the sewer quest.
Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)
While that may have been fine and dandy when there were 2000 people around at prime time and finding someone to set rings for you/do the door puzzle was simpler, it's an unnecessary pain in the rear for anyone who isn't a wizard that wants to hunt there now. I had no problems going to find a stick, a ranger, and an embedder and getting an Unlock rod when I found the door closed yesterday, but it was more than a little irritating when my warrior went back there once she got it and found that Unlock no longer worked.
--
You quietly whisper to Tolomyn, "I would like 'an unpretentious albugineous rumchunder dress whorled with chrysochlorous penniform arabesques', please."
>
You gaze hopefully at Tolomyn.
>
Tolomyn stares at you.
Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)
While that may have been fine and dandy when there were 2000 people around at prime time and finding someone to set rings for you/do the door puzzle was simpler, it's an unnecessary pain in the rear for anyone who isn't a wizard that wants to hunt there now. I had no problems going to find a stick, a ranger, and an embedder and getting an Unlock rod when I found the door closed yesterday, but it was more than a little irritating when my warrior went back there once she got it and found that Unlock no longer worked.
--
You quietly whisper to Tolomyn, "I would like 'an unpretentious albugineous rumchunder dress whorled with chrysochlorous penniform arabesques', please."
>
You gaze hopefully at Tolomyn.
>
Tolomyn stares at you.
ARIETTA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/09/2015 12:09 AM CDT
<<<I had no problems going to find a stick, a ranger, and an embedder and getting an Unlock rod when I found the door closed yesterday, but it was more than a little irritating when my warrior went back there once she got it and found that Unlock no longer worked.>>>
You went to all that trouble, and at least two separate characters, for an unlock rod, yet getting a ring set is too much of a hassle? Sorry, but I find that kind of amusing. :D
Kidding aside... Okay, it's a PITA. I get it. But even though the puzzle's been broken for like ten years, it was never really intended to be that way. Puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. This one, in particular, I always thought was especially creative and fun. Granted, most people will simply bypass it with a ring. That's fine. Voln masters can fog in. Sorcerers can rift in. Wizards can gate in. Shouldn't be too hard to get a couple rings set. It's all good. :)
~ GtG
You went to all that trouble, and at least two separate characters, for an unlock rod, yet getting a ring set is too much of a hassle? Sorry, but I find that kind of amusing. :D
Kidding aside... Okay, it's a PITA. I get it. But even though the puzzle's been broken for like ten years, it was never really intended to be that way. Puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. This one, in particular, I always thought was especially creative and fun. Granted, most people will simply bypass it with a ring. That's fine. Voln masters can fog in. Sorcerers can rift in. Wizards can gate in. Shouldn't be too hard to get a couple rings set. It's all good. :)
~ GtG
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/09/2015 12:27 AM CDT
>Since I fixed the sewer quest a month or two back, and folks are wanting the hard door puzzle back, I'll make Unlock not work on the doors anymore. ;)-
I refrained from commenting, since I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not.
My original bug was that the door was plain stuck open. Forget about 407 or any other issues when the door is propped.
Having said that, I am so excited about this fix.
I suppose I'll stay out of whether the puzzle should be solvable by igaesha, but it probably makes a certain amount of sense.
<3 Keios. And now everyone's going to hate me! Oh, nevermind, they already do...
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I refrained from commenting, since I couldn't tell if this was a joke or not.
My original bug was that the door was plain stuck open. Forget about 407 or any other issues when the door is propped.
Having said that, I am so excited about this fix.
I suppose I'll stay out of whether the puzzle should be solvable by igaesha, but it probably makes a certain amount of sense.
<3 Keios. And now everyone's going to hate me! Oh, nevermind, they already do...
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
OM1E5GA
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/09/2015 01:40 AM CDT
The residents of the Landing are so spoiled being able to just use rings to bypass all the difficulties leading up to the all various hunting grounds around the town. You're lucky you had Keios fix it rather then a current or past RR guru... they would have made teleporting into the Monastery possible only via Voln and made Unlock work only 50% of the time.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Starchitin
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
DAID
Re: Sweimming Mechanics
07/09/2015 08:49 AM CDT
>The residents of the Landing are so spoiled being able to just use rings to bypass all the difficulties leading up to the all various hunting grounds around the town. You're lucky you had Keios fix it rather then a current or past RR guru... they would have made teleporting into the Monastery possible only via Voln and made Unlock work only 50% of the time.
I don't know that I 100% agree with all of this. I certainly agree with a large portion of it. However, when Scribes and Oscuro (I think) re-did the Citadel, they nerfed the entry puzzle there, which I had also complained about in some thread from some time ago. I forget which other examples I used in "nerfed puzzles", but the Citadel and Monastery were two of the big ones I used as examples (and wondering to what extent it was a trend).
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
I don't know that I 100% agree with all of this. I certainly agree with a large portion of it. However, when Scribes and Oscuro (I think) re-did the Citadel, they nerfed the entry puzzle there, which I had also complained about in some thread from some time ago. I forget which other examples I used in "nerfed puzzles", but the Citadel and Monastery were two of the big ones I used as examples (and wondering to what extent it was a trend).
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
SIWAS
Was re: Swimming Mechanics, now re:Broken Lands Entrance
07/09/2015 09:24 AM CDT
>You went to all that trouble, and at least two separate characters, for an unlock rod, yet getting a ring set is too much of a hassle? Sorry, but I find that kind of amusing. :D
Yes, I glanced five feet to my left and asked my partner if he'd make me an unlock rod if I brought him a stick. If I'd had to hunt around in game and find random strangers to do it, it would have taken a lot longer. I'm glad I amuse you.
>Kidding aside... Okay, it's a PITA. I get it.
You play a wizard who can do the puzzle.
>But even though the puzzle's been broken for like ten years, it was never really intended to be that way.
Exactly how long does a door have to be openable by 407 before the common wisdom DOES become 'it's intended to be that way'?
>Puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. This one, in particular, I always thought was especially creative and fun.
Again, you play a wizard. I am very aware puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. I am not objecting to puzzles. I think that a lot of the puzzles associated with the Broken Lands are antiquated and not well suited for the current state of the game, but I've thought that for years. (Seriously, go figure out how to get into the jagged plains or into/out of lesser vruul through in-game clues alone and not a wiki or word of mouth. I'll wait.)
At the very least, a change like this that affected a hunting ground for so many people should have been posted in the announcements folder, not buried under a random 'swimming skill' titled post in a folder hardly anyone reads.
--
You quietly whisper to Tolomyn, "I would like 'an unpretentious albugineous rumchunder dress whorled with chrysochlorous penniform arabesques', please."
>
You gaze hopefully at Tolomyn.
>
Tolomyn stares at you.
Yes, I glanced five feet to my left and asked my partner if he'd make me an unlock rod if I brought him a stick. If I'd had to hunt around in game and find random strangers to do it, it would have taken a lot longer. I'm glad I amuse you.
>Kidding aside... Okay, it's a PITA. I get it.
You play a wizard who can do the puzzle.
>But even though the puzzle's been broken for like ten years, it was never really intended to be that way.
Exactly how long does a door have to be openable by 407 before the common wisdom DOES become 'it's intended to be that way'?
>Puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. This one, in particular, I always thought was especially creative and fun.
Again, you play a wizard. I am very aware puzzles have always been a part of Gemstone. I am not objecting to puzzles. I think that a lot of the puzzles associated with the Broken Lands are antiquated and not well suited for the current state of the game, but I've thought that for years. (Seriously, go figure out how to get into the jagged plains or into/out of lesser vruul through in-game clues alone and not a wiki or word of mouth. I'll wait.)
At the very least, a change like this that affected a hunting ground for so many people should have been posted in the announcements folder, not buried under a random 'swimming skill' titled post in a folder hardly anyone reads.
--
You quietly whisper to Tolomyn, "I would like 'an unpretentious albugineous rumchunder dress whorled with chrysochlorous penniform arabesques', please."
>
You gaze hopefully at Tolomyn.
>
Tolomyn stares at you.
KRAKII
Re: Was re: Swimming Mechanics, now re:Broken Lands Entrance
07/09/2015 09:34 AM CDT
"Exactly how long does a door have to be openable by 407 before the common wisdom DOES become 'it's intended to be that way'?" -- Siwas
6-8 months. That's how long the absence of Breakage took for it not-happening to become "normal".
6-8 months. That's how long the absence of Breakage took for it not-happening to become "normal".
DAID
Re: Was re: Swimming Mechanics, now re:Broken Lands Entrance
07/09/2015 01:32 PM CDT
Here was part of my night
1) Go to check out the door status in game.
2) Find an AFK person there, with a weapon in hand. Hmm, that's kind of interesting. This change must be really bad!
3) Offer to Planar Shift them inside. Nothing. Decide to spell myself up here and wait for a reply. Mana Focus (418) kills me for the first time ever. While I'm sitting at the door offering to get people through.
4) Ask for a rescue on LNet. Get in contact with one person. It ends like this:
[Private]-GSIV:Someone: Nevermind, someone just told me you're the person who got the doors changed...
(Someone else was nice enough to rescue me. Also, 3 deaths in like less than 2 days. Screw this, I'm going back to River's Rest.)
5) Proceed to continue my plan of world domination by purchasing a mage rechargable Call Familiar pin-worn item. Even if I have a planar rune set. Gonna go play with this for the first time ever in game. Seeing is believing. It's a reason I love this game.
Otherwise? Every thing is looking just like I expected, woo hoo!
PS: I wanted a 920 item for some time, so I could be less anti-social doing alchemy work that's required to be done in the guild. And I wanted to __have any ability to solve this puzzle, regardless of other means of entry allowed, for the planned ki-lin hunt. Most of this was going to be a private email to KEIOS for all of teh mad props, but sure you all can be kept in the loop.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
1) Go to check out the door status in game.
2) Find an AFK person there, with a weapon in hand. Hmm, that's kind of interesting. This change must be really bad!
3) Offer to Planar Shift them inside. Nothing. Decide to spell myself up here and wait for a reply. Mana Focus (418) kills me for the first time ever. While I'm sitting at the door offering to get people through.
4) Ask for a rescue on LNet. Get in contact with one person. It ends like this:
[Private]-GSIV:Someone: Nevermind, someone just told me you're the person who got the doors changed...
(Someone else was nice enough to rescue me. Also, 3 deaths in like less than 2 days. Screw this, I'm going back to River's Rest.)
5) Proceed to continue my plan of world domination by purchasing a mage rechargable Call Familiar pin-worn item. Even if I have a planar rune set. Gonna go play with this for the first time ever in game. Seeing is believing. It's a reason I love this game.
Otherwise? Every thing is looking just like I expected, woo hoo!
PS: I wanted a 920 item for some time, so I could be less anti-social doing alchemy work that's required to be done in the guild. And I wanted to __have any ability to solve this puzzle, regardless of other means of entry allowed, for the planned ki-lin hunt. Most of this was going to be a private email to KEIOS for all of teh mad props, but sure you all can be kept in the loop.
Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog
>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p
