>
[Vornavian Coast, Pine Forest]
You notice a rockslide leading down into a foggy valley.
Obvious paths: north, west
>
>stop 1012
Your sonic warlance dissipates.
You stop singing Sonic Weapon Song.
>
>climb rockslide

You skillfully move down the rockslide. Before you have even begun to pant, your climb comes to an end at the bottom.

[Vornavian Coast, Foggy Valley]
You notice a rockslide leading up into a pine forest.
Obvious paths: north



Please fix CLIMBing in general.


As a bard, you have to drop your sonic weapon in order to make most climbs. This is mana intensive and annoying.

You should also be able to drag a body up and down any climb in the game so a corpse doesn't get stuck somewhere.

If that's the rockslide I'm thinking of, you have to have both hands free to climb it. If you really think about it, climbing often includes using your hands, which is hard to do if you're holding something. Yes, for bards it is annoying because of the mana factor.. but it's one of the prices that is paid for using sonic weapons. Which, by the way, have no silver cost, cannot be disarmed, are never lost to the janitor, the enchant goes up with your training, and you get flares.

As for dragging corpses, some climbing areas just use different syntax to drag someone over it. Some areas cannot be dragged over (ice patches) but fogging works. Just because something is climbable doesn't mean you should necessarily be able to drag a corpse along with you. Nightmare Gorge, for example.. you can get a corpse into the gorge on the Pinefar side, but it makes sense that you wouldn't be able to drag a body up the other side.

Just my thoughts.

<<There are many other options to getting corpses out of that area beyond just dragging. -Aulis>>

I don't care.


This wasn't really put up for options, or alternatives or to discuss the benefit of bard weapons.


CLIMBing is annoying, broken and horribly coded.


I don't care if you can teleport, I don't care if bard spells are awesome.

I care that I have to drop my weapon as a bard to make a climb, and I care that corpses get stuck in various parts of the game because mechanics are crap.

The options and alternatives are just as annoying as the people posting to tell me about the options and alternatives. I'm well aware of the options and alternatives. I'm complaining about the way it actually works.

So lets ignore all the crap that people post in response and deal with the actual complaint.

I don't need distractions about sonic armor and teleportation and the price of tea in china.

Climbing mechanics are annoying. I could go on and on and on, but it's dumb.

Climbing is broken. (Explains the problem 100%)

Do something about it!

Allow corpses to be dragged anywhere, even over climbs.

Allow me to climb over something with my sonic weapon, even if its more difficult.

Remove annoying mechanics so people enjoy the game instead of getting frustrated by poor coding.

With that posting style, good luck getting anything changed. I wouldn't do it out of spite.

~Galenok

>>Climbing is broken. (Explains the problem 100%)
-- Posted by IFEROUS

Okay, just for the sake of argument...

Explain why you feel it's BROKEN?

You've explained why you find it annoying (You have to stop singing your weapon). That's fine. But explain how it's broken?

B

This certainly isn't the first caustic post for Iferous, and I'm not throwing my lot in with him. I would, however, like to add at least a few coherent thoughts to the the Sonic Weapon side of the discussion.

Changes were made to Sonic Shield, allowing the user to shift the item from their hand to their shoulder. This allowed sonic shield + weapon users to loot things without having to stop their song- which was obviously horrendously inconvenient. This change was implemented on top of coding and mechanisms already in place for shield use. Unfortunately nothing so simple is available for weapons, additionally as I've heard it, the coding for Bard songs in general is pretty complicated. That being said, it WOULD be nice to allow brief storage of sonic weapons for climbing and other both-hands-empty tasks.

As I see it the options to pursue that are as follows:
STOW. Slip the weapon into a container. The challenge with this obviously is for the coding the recognize the weapon is stowed and to stop the song early if it is not retrieved in a timely manner.

WEAR. Allow the sonic weapon to be refocused as a wearable. I believe there is some coding already for wearable weapons. Perhaps those can be grafted onto the Sonic Weapons?

RENEW. If a sonic weapon dissipates provide a short window of time to renew it at a lower cost. This is probably the most complicated and least likely to be implemented. It also doesn't completely eliminate the issue of having to re-cast the spell.


Obviously these suggestions are getting tossed into a thread that should probably be ignored given its inception. But on the off chance it's taken seriously there you go.

While they're at it, if they could investigate making sonic weapons more HURL friendly, I'd be happy happy.

~Galenok

>But again, I think editing that code is troublesome.

In general, players shouldn't feel that they need to worry about this sort of issue, particularly because it often isn't true. Some pieces of code are certainly uglier and/or more complicated than others, but that's rarely a factor when considering updates.

I would also suggest that the spell-specific portion of the discussion be moved to the bard folder, to group it more appropriately.

With regard to the original complaint, it is intended (and appropriate) to require one to have empty hands to complete a climb. It is also intended for climbing to prevent dragging in many cases. If there are objections to specific climb barriers, those are best addressed individually. It it not intended for you to be able to drag a corpse from one end of the game to the other without any blocks.

It makes sense to block dragging across certain obstacles, but that also means that some characters (like me!) are unable to rescue bodies from a lot of places. I'd favor making it always possible to drag a body back to town, but make it really hard and/or undesirable to get past the currently impossible obstacles.

-Keleborrn.

<<With regard to the original complaint, it is intended (and appropriate) to require one to have empty hands to complete a climb. It is also intended for climbing to prevent dragging in many cases. If there are objections to specific climb barriers, those are best addressed individually. It it not intended for you to be able to drag a corpse from one end of the game to the other without any blocks.>>

<<It makes sense to block dragging across certain obstacles, but that also means that some characters (like me!) are unable to rescue bodies from a lot of places. I'd favor making it always possible to drag a body back to town, but make it really hard and/or undesirable to get past the currently impossible obstacles. --Keleborrn.>>

This please.

Unless the terrain is a rockface I don't see many obstacles to dragging a body along with you. It may be difficult but I see very few situations where dragging should be impossible.

It feels like an old requirement that could be updated to be more player and group friendly. (Why should groups have to disband at every climb as well?) It makes being in a group more difficult and less attractive.

I honestly think warriors, or people with a high enough strength/climbing skill should be able to throw a body over their shoulder and climb with a more difficult climb check.

There's been many cases in Plat that I'm the only person around able to rescue someone, and they're in a no-drag spot...and they'd just have to decay and have me pick their stuff up because I couldn't get them out of an area and back to town.

Yes, fogging is more convenient, but being able to drag someone back to town should be feasible as well, with enough skill.

Now that would be a pretty sweet merchant item....a harness you can strap to a body and pull them up a climb...

Depends on the ice. There's a big difference between the Antarctic ice 'pack' (which is not all that packed, at the surface; watch or read about Shackleton's journey(s)) and a frozen pond or lake (which, after all, is where the Nordic countries invented ice hockey [by definition, pretty flat]).

>>There's a big difference between the Antarctic ice 'pack' (which is not all that packed, at the surface; watch or read about Shackleton's journey(s)) and a frozen pond or lake (which, after all, is where the Nordic countries invented ice hockey [by definition, pretty flat]).<<

Well, since moving fast on the Ice Mule trail can cause you to fall due to slipperiness, one assumes that area is more like a pond/lake surface. Ice covered by snow would probably offer better traction if the snow were deep enough, but then the snow would liklely pile up and offer some resistance to dragging a body.

Mind you, this discussion is all somewhat theoretical, for me at least, since I have never tried to drag a dead body over snow/ice. Any hunters out there? Dragging a deer or such might be analogous.


The bells of Hell
go ting-a-ling-a-ling
for you but not for me

From past discussion, I believe there are some frightful technical issues involving carrying corpses.

GM Scribes

Down in River's Rest, we have an institute for Gnome Flingery. Hope to have it fully open and operational in 2012.

GM Scribes

The issue in this case isn't really one of coding difficulty or coding priorities (though the latter always has some relevance). Instead, it's the fact that two decades of game design have assumed certain things about dragging, and we're not about to create a blanket bypass to get around those designs. I have no doubt that some dragging blocks were unintentionally added when a GM forgot about it, but many others are quite intentional. A universal workaround is not going to happen, but as I previously indicated, I'm willing to take a look at specific cases of particularly frustrating barriers.

I carry a 325 Nexus gem for recovery off the Icemule trail. Even if they can't make the gem themself, a cleric can still use one that someone else made. I don't know what realm boundaries there might be along the trail, so I don't know just how much is in range, but I have recovered a body off the trail to Icemule using Nexus.