Training point issue 10/07/2015 06:17 PM CDT
I have a cleric training in alchemic potions, and it seems that the training points to next rank is being borrowed from the general alchemy skill rather than following its own independent progression for the potions skill. I currently have more ranks in general alchemy, so this is making it take significantly longer to gain each rank in alchemic potions than it should. I have BUGged the issue in-game. Some logs below demonstrate what I'm talking about -- note the difference between trinkets and potions, and the similarity between potions and general regardless of ranks...




>ask gilv about train alch
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in General Alchemy.

You have started a new rank of General Alchemy. You need 61 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in General Alchemy." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "Alchemy, eh? Quite an interesting subject. Go speak with one of the skilled masters. Perhaps you will learn something new." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 4 times."
>ask gilv about train trink
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in Alchemic Trinkets.

You have started a new rank of Alchemic Trinkets. You need 52 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in Alchemic Trinkets." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "It seems our storerooms are running low on general alchemical ingredients. Go and gather some ingredients for the guild's supply and turn them in to the storeroom clerk. You can get a list of what is needed from the clerk as well, just ASK for a LIST." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 5 times."
You feel at full magical power again.
>ask gilv about train pot
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in Alchemic Potions.

You have started a new rank of Alchemic Potions. You need 61 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in Alchemic Potions." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "It seems our storerooms are running low on general alchemical ingredients. Go and gather some ingredients for the guild's supply and turn them in to the storeroom clerk. You can get a list of what is needed from the clerk as well, just ASK for a LIST." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 5 times."
You feel more refreshed.
>gld

You are a member of the Cleric Guild.
You are current with your dues and must check in again sometime in the next 20 days.
You currently have 0 task trading vouchers.
You currently have 15 ranks out of a possible 128 for your training.

You have 8 ranks in the General Alchemy skill.
You need 61 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to visit a skilled master for a lesson.
You have 4 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 5 ranks in the Alchemic Potions skill.
You need 61 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to gather alchemy ingredients for the guild's supply.
You have 5 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 5 ranks in the Alchemic Trinkets skill.
You need 52 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to gather alchemy ingredients for the guild's supply.
You have 5 repetitions remaining to complete this task.




Gilvemza nods to you and says, "Need help with training? Just ASK if you do."
>ask gilv about train trink
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in Alchemic Trinkets.

You have started a new rank of Alchemic Trinkets. You need 56 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in Alchemic Trinkets." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "Alchemy, eh? Quite an interesting subject. Go speak with one of the skilled masters. Perhaps you will learn something new." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 6 times."

>ask gilv about train pot
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in Alchemic Potions.

You have started a new rank of Alchemic Potions. You need 75 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in Alchemic Potions." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "Practice makes perfect! Work on making solutions that require simmering as part of their creation process. Each completed solution using SIMMER will count as one repetition. Make sure the recipes you use are a challenge for you." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 6 times."

>gld

You are a member of the Cleric Guild.
You are current with your dues and must check in again sometime in the next 24 days.
You currently have 3 task trading vouchers.
You currently have 57 ranks out of a possible 224 for your training.

You have 46 ranks in the General Alchemy skill.
You need 23 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to practice creating tough solutions that involve boiling.
You have 9 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 7 ranks in the Alchemic Potions skill.
You need 75 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to practice creating tough solutions that involve simmering.
You have 6 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 7 ranks in the Alchemic Trinkets skill.
You need 56 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to visit a skilled master for a lesson.
You have 6 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

(Previously...)
>ask gilv about train alch
You ask Gilvemza for an assignment in General Alchemy.

You have started a new rank of General Alchemy. You need 74 Training Points to earn your next rank.

Gilvemza assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in General Alchemy." Gilvemza rubs her chin thoughtfully, then continues, "Hmm, I understand some of the lens assemblies in the labs have gotten a bit tarnished, and could use a good polish. Go polish some of the dirty lens assemblies and the glass lenses near them while I think of an appropriate course of study for you. You'll find the polishing cloths you need in one of the guild's store rooms." Gilvemza also adds, "Repeat this 17 times."
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 11:53 AM CDT
I am not completely sure I know what your issue is, but here is what I think.

A: You have 8 General, 5 Potions, 5 Trinkets for a total of 15 ranks.
B: You got a new rank of General, 61 TP to get.
C: You got a new rank in Potions, also 61 TP to get.
D: You think this is wrong because you have 8 ranks in General, and only 5 in Potions.

If that is the case, and the cleric guild works like the rogue guild (Pretty sure it does), you are using the wrong number to calculate. Unfortunately, the amount of training points to rank is based off of how close you are to the guild wall, which in your case is 15/128. It doesn't matter what your rank is in any individual skill, only the total number of ranks, and how many/few you have completed.

I hope this helps.
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 12:00 PM CDT
"A: You have 8 General, 5 Potions, 5 Trinkets for a total of 15 ranks." -- GallM11

Eighteen, sir.
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 12:01 PM CDT


>the cleric guild works like the rogue guild (Pretty sure it does)

When it comes to TPs per rank, all guilds work the same. If you have any info to help flesh out this page, I'd love your input:

https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Guild
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 12:02 PM CDT

>>"A: You have 8 General, 5 Potions, 5 Trinkets for a total of 15 ranks." -- GallM11

Eighteen, sir.<<

Actually, the first rank of any skill doesn't count in the formula, so the total is 15. I don't know why those are the rules, but they are. Makes math more confusing for sure.
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 12:13 PM CDT
Okay, I knew that worked like that for the Warrior Guild; haven't ever done Alchemy so I wasn't sure it worked the same way.
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 01:52 PM CDT
I'm not really understanding. I had thought points per rank followed a progression for each skill independently...

If points-per-rank is just based off the total ranks, why am I getting a different number for Trinkets? In each of those logs, I also started a new rank for trinkets, and only needed 52 and 56 points, respectively, instead of 61 and 75.
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Re: Training point issue 10/08/2015 09:47 PM CDT
>https://gswiki.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Guild

Dug into it a little bit. Nice article, thanks for the start.
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Re: Training point issue 10/10/2015 08:48 AM CDT
>If points-per-rank is just based off the total ranks, why am I getting a different number for Trinkets? In each of those logs, I also started a new rank for trinkets, and only needed 52 and 56 points, respectively, instead of 61 and 75.

The base points required per rank for a skill vary from skill to skill (it varies from 75 to 150 in the square guilds, I don't know the base points for pures). What you are seeing indicates that cleric trinkets has a lower base than the other 2 (maybe 125 instead of 150).
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Re: Training point issue 10/10/2015 11:00 AM CDT


Oh, interesting. Did not know that, or maybe I've just forgotten... it's been way too long since I did the rogue guild (when it was still incomplete). By "base points" do you mean what you get when you're close to the guild wall?

Do you (or does anyone else) know the exact formula? Based on those logs it looks like it could be 50+X*(total ranks / guild wall ranks), where X is 100 for potions and general and 25 for trinkets... this would be up to 150 training points for potions and general alchemy, and up to 75 for trinkets.

This info (for all the guild skills) should go on the wiki!
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Re: Training point issue 10/11/2015 01:26 PM CDT
>Oh, interesting. Did not know that, or maybe I've just forgotten... it's been way too long since I did the rogue guild (when it was still incomplete). By "base points" do you mean what you get when you're close to the guild wall?

Yes. Its also the number you get if you are under level 20, so its actually easiest to check the base points with a level 15-19 character thats just joined the guild.
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