To any people who have mastered the various alchemy guild skills, what are the best/easiest challenging recipes to use for reps at the following ranks? I'm a sorcerer, if its relevant.
General Alchemy - 34
Potions - 16
Trinkets - 16
Also, are there any notable recipes coming up which are very easy to get the components for, that will help carry me through the higher levels of alchemy?
IRVINETOMOE
DVDMORSE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/14/2012 08:11 PM CDT
>To any people who have mastered the various alchemy guild skills, what are the best/easiest challenging recipes to use for reps at the following ranks? I'm a sorcerer, if its relevant.
For general alchemy, if you are at 34 you just passed essence shards, but you can still break down crystals into clusters for infuse ranks and just general hard recipe ranks up to about 47, I think. Lesser mana potions are easiest for simmer ranks, and they work until rank 45. Lesser health potions are a pain because they require a lot of ground marallis berry, but they are still the easiest for boil until 38. Then the boil ranks get really time-consuming.
For sorcerer trinkets, I did wands up until rank 19. Then you can do phase powder (704), which is very easy and pretty cheap.
For potions, rainbow-hued potions (405) are really easy, though rainbow quartz are a little expensive if you can't find enough hunting.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
For general alchemy, if you are at 34 you just passed essence shards, but you can still break down crystals into clusters for infuse ranks and just general hard recipe ranks up to about 47, I think. Lesser mana potions are easiest for simmer ranks, and they work until rank 45. Lesser health potions are a pain because they require a lot of ground marallis berry, but they are still the easiest for boil until 38. Then the boil ranks get really time-consuming.
For sorcerer trinkets, I did wands up until rank 19. Then you can do phase powder (704), which is very easy and pretty cheap.
For potions, rainbow-hued potions (405) are really easy, though rainbow quartz are a little expensive if you can't find enough hunting.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/14/2012 08:12 PM CDT
For general alchemy, collect lots of:
- essence of fire
- essence of fire (I listed this one twice for a reason)
- sprite hairs
- siren hairs
- green malachite stones
- glowing violet mote of essence
- golden moonstones
- radiant crimson essence dust
- radiant crimson mote of essence
To get to 35 I would recommend doing Essence Shards exclusively (turn in everything else).
From rank 35 until 47 I would do ayanad clusters, s'ayanad clusters, and t'ayanad clusters.
From 47 on you'll be using the items listed above.
-- Faulkil
- essence of fire
- essence of fire (I listed this one twice for a reason)
- sprite hairs
- siren hairs
- green malachite stones
- glowing violet mote of essence
- golden moonstones
- radiant crimson essence dust
- radiant crimson mote of essence
To get to 35 I would recommend doing Essence Shards exclusively (turn in everything else).
From rank 35 until 47 I would do ayanad clusters, s'ayanad clusters, and t'ayanad clusters.
From 47 on you'll be using the items listed above.
-- Faulkil
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/14/2012 08:19 PM CDT
I can only speak for general alchemy, since I mastered as an empath.
At rank 34, you can see if making essence shards will give you reps. If so, make as many as you can and turn every other task in that has you making something. It's fast, easy, cheap, and you're going to need them later. If that doesn't work, you should be breaking down crystals. They're the simplest and easiest to do. Trade in all boiling and simmering tasks. Just be sure to keep a good stock of as many varieties as possible, since you're going to need s'ayanads and t'ayanads later. Breaking down crystals will keep you into the mid 40's.
Once you get out of breaking down crystals, you can make either minor sneezing powder or minor luck talismans. Either will work and will count for the same tasks. Which ones you choose will depend on what materials you'd have on hand. You'll probably want to make sneezing powders when you hit master tasks, because you get paid a decent amount for them.
When you hit 50, make spirit shards. Make them like there's no tomorrow and turn everything else in. It's going to be a pain with regenning spirit, but anything else you'd make would only take away materials that you're going to use later, making it much more expensive in the long run. Spirit shards will carry you to around 58 or 59.
Once out, you have a decent variety of choices. Greater mana potions were my go-to whenever possible because of the lower material cost, but it doesn't cover every task type (only simmer and infuse), so you're going to have to make other stuff as well. Major sneezing powder is another good option for your boil tasks. Lesser luck talismans will probably be your best bet for channel tasks, but you're going to need whole, unpowdered malachite stones, which will likely be in short supply unless you save up for a while or buy them from other people. Use greater mana-well and greater mana regeneration potions only as a last resort.
That should take you up to mastery. Hope that helps!
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
At rank 34, you can see if making essence shards will give you reps. If so, make as many as you can and turn every other task in that has you making something. It's fast, easy, cheap, and you're going to need them later. If that doesn't work, you should be breaking down crystals. They're the simplest and easiest to do. Trade in all boiling and simmering tasks. Just be sure to keep a good stock of as many varieties as possible, since you're going to need s'ayanads and t'ayanads later. Breaking down crystals will keep you into the mid 40's.
Once you get out of breaking down crystals, you can make either minor sneezing powder or minor luck talismans. Either will work and will count for the same tasks. Which ones you choose will depend on what materials you'd have on hand. You'll probably want to make sneezing powders when you hit master tasks, because you get paid a decent amount for them.
When you hit 50, make spirit shards. Make them like there's no tomorrow and turn everything else in. It's going to be a pain with regenning spirit, but anything else you'd make would only take away materials that you're going to use later, making it much more expensive in the long run. Spirit shards will carry you to around 58 or 59.
Once out, you have a decent variety of choices. Greater mana potions were my go-to whenever possible because of the lower material cost, but it doesn't cover every task type (only simmer and infuse), so you're going to have to make other stuff as well. Major sneezing powder is another good option for your boil tasks. Lesser luck talismans will probably be your best bet for channel tasks, but you're going to need whole, unpowdered malachite stones, which will likely be in short supply unless you save up for a while or buy them from other people. Use greater mana-well and greater mana regeneration potions only as a last resort.
That should take you up to mastery. Hope that helps!
Gretchen
Meeting Nilandia: http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.nilandia.com
AIM: Lady Nilandia
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 04:55 AM CDT
Whew! Alchemy was worse than I remembered. That was a rough few hours. I'm pretty sure I made no actual progress in any of the three skills, though I know I'm about 4000 silver poorer for the effort.
Except for lock mastery, this isn't even remotely comparable to the other guild skills.
What are the biggest benefits for you guys out there who have mastered Alchemy? I'd hear from people who play each of the 4 pures, if anyone wants to share.
Except for lock mastery, this isn't even remotely comparable to the other guild skills.
What are the biggest benefits for you guys out there who have mastered Alchemy? I'd hear from people who play each of the 4 pures, if anyone wants to share.
VT-JSARIA
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 06:13 AM CDT
>What are the biggest benefits for you guys out there who have mastered Alchemy?
I don't understand the question. What are these 'benefits' of which you speak?
Right now, there just aren't a whole lot of recipes that make alchemy worth the ludicrous amount of time and money you have to put into it, at least as a cleric. For wizards, maybe making the tempering potions is worth it, in the long run. Empaths get the neat cure-130-sickness potion. Sorcerors can make their chalk, which I guess MAY become cost efficient at some point.
~Godefroy
Morvule hisses, "Ssssally ssssellssss sssseashellssss by the sssseasssshore."
I don't understand the question. What are these 'benefits' of which you speak?
Right now, there just aren't a whole lot of recipes that make alchemy worth the ludicrous amount of time and money you have to put into it, at least as a cleric. For wizards, maybe making the tempering potions is worth it, in the long run. Empaths get the neat cure-130-sickness potion. Sorcerors can make their chalk, which I guess MAY become cost efficient at some point.
~Godefroy
Morvule hisses, "Ssssally ssssellssss sssseashellssss by the sssseasssshore."
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 07:22 AM CDT
It does look like, IF you can get the ingredients, the 740 chalks are worth about 15-25k in ingredients, rather than 40-55k, depending on racial bonuses and such. That said, one of the ingredients is a RIFT gem, so that bumps the value up a tad I think.
I saw a few quirky items involving enchanting, like potions that only clerics can make which allow enchanting sanctified items, but really, thats probably more profit to the wizard than anything else.
I saw a few quirky items involving enchanting, like potions that only clerics can make which allow enchanting sanctified items, but really, thats probably more profit to the wizard than anything else.
VANKRASN39
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 10:59 AM CDT
I think the mana and spirit recipes (all types) are underrated. There's not a huge market for glossy black shards, but they make great trade material.
That said, the recipe for chrystalline chalk is total BS, and should not involve a rift gem (this coming from someone who hunts the rift). A lot of work goes into mastery only to get completely screwed by the materials required by a lot of the high level recipes.
The best benefit is bragging rights. I think what you really need to consider before undertaking alchemy is not necessarily "what can I make in the end" but "how bad do I want this for my character" because undergoing the process will completely change how you play and also may make you not want to play anymore. See the cleric and sorcerer guildmaster lists and consider how many are still active (available on krakiipedia and the PC, respectively).
I still love the potential for the system, but there's still a lot of room for improvement. I've almost mastered my cleric in general, and I'll say that the changes to general alchemy have made it much more bearable (maybe because I know how hard it was when gems needed to be scavenged and how much I need to prepare).
~Allereli
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 01:04 PM CDT
>The best benefit is bragging rights. I think what you really need to consider before undertaking alchemy is not necessarily "what can I make in the end" but "how bad do I want this for my character" because undergoing the process will completely change how you play and also may make you not want to play anymore.
This is definitely a huge aspect for me. I ground out the necessary ranks to master the guild back when Alchemy came out . . . pretty quickly actually. It was rough, and it really burnt me out, but I did it for a huge reason; I wanted guild mastery. I BELIEVE that was October of 2007? and I know I didn't stop playing until sometime in the Summer of 2008. When I reactivated my account last month, I was still at 125 ranks. It was bad enough that even though I loved the guild, I didn't do a single additional rank for nearly a year.
Now that I'm back, I'd like to try and master this stuff for Kastrel, but I can say for absolute certain . . . it will never happen again. For my wizard, its an RP issue. He would NEVER sit through the nonsense required (and I don't blame him). I don't see a benefit for Empaths to grind through thousands of HERB tincture recipes, when a free 18th level spell can generate those pretty much at will. As for clerics, I don't even have one, so I don't even know what would happen there. But I'm pretty sure I can say that mastering this is purely for the sake of Kastrel being able to be a prominent figure in the guild, and nothing more.
I also have to say that it seems like Empaths and Wizards have a pretty big advantage. Between the profession bonus to foraging that Empaths have (and generating free herbs, great for grind ingredient tasks), and the tremendous boon that is Haste, there is a huge lack of balance between the professions here, Wizards being the more blatant of the two. I'm all for reaping the benefits of your profession, but the difference that Haste makes is . . . I don't know, unsettling.
And this is all, in the end, for what? Potions and wands that cast what we already know? Mana potions with extreme restrictions on them? (jeez, cut that timer in half at least!) Hair dye and fireworks?
This is definitely a huge aspect for me. I ground out the necessary ranks to master the guild back when Alchemy came out . . . pretty quickly actually. It was rough, and it really burnt me out, but I did it for a huge reason; I wanted guild mastery. I BELIEVE that was October of 2007? and I know I didn't stop playing until sometime in the Summer of 2008. When I reactivated my account last month, I was still at 125 ranks. It was bad enough that even though I loved the guild, I didn't do a single additional rank for nearly a year.
Now that I'm back, I'd like to try and master this stuff for Kastrel, but I can say for absolute certain . . . it will never happen again. For my wizard, its an RP issue. He would NEVER sit through the nonsense required (and I don't blame him). I don't see a benefit for Empaths to grind through thousands of HERB tincture recipes, when a free 18th level spell can generate those pretty much at will. As for clerics, I don't even have one, so I don't even know what would happen there. But I'm pretty sure I can say that mastering this is purely for the sake of Kastrel being able to be a prominent figure in the guild, and nothing more.
I also have to say that it seems like Empaths and Wizards have a pretty big advantage. Between the profession bonus to foraging that Empaths have (and generating free herbs, great for grind ingredient tasks), and the tremendous boon that is Haste, there is a huge lack of balance between the professions here, Wizards being the more blatant of the two. I'm all for reaping the benefits of your profession, but the difference that Haste makes is . . . I don't know, unsettling.
And this is all, in the end, for what? Potions and wands that cast what we already know? Mana potions with extreme restrictions on them? (jeez, cut that timer in half at least!) Hair dye and fireworks?
THORNBROOK
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/23/2012 05:35 PM CDT
Alchemy is simply daunting, so much so that while I know I've saved every alchemy component, at least the ones I know are useful alchemy components..I haven't talked myself into actually looking at all the possible recipes and trying to find a good way to rank up using what I've stockpiled. I know I'm going to be lacking in anything that requires gems or foraging as I have none of that stockpiled. If the furrier, alchemist, and gemshop would allow you to buy the raw goods from them (and then likewise assign people those same tasks as part of their ADVguild bounties to replace inventory) this would be substantially easier to accomplish. Not saying it should be a cakewalk, but I really have no inclination to go foraging on my sorcerer. If I had to logout to go get my ranger an excessive amount of times for an item, I'd see myself getting burnt out rather quickly with the effort.
A lot of neat items come from the alchemy system so the times I've heard of something that can be produced, I'm glad others have mastered and are accessible to produce with my mats a recipe they know.
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/24/2012 10:52 AM CDT
The only place haste works for wizards (or anyone else for that matter) doing alchemy is in the menial tasks: sweeping, cleaning, and polishing in the workshops and grinding ingredients; oh yeah, and in distillation. Haste doesn't work in the actual making of alchemy items, which is about 95% of alchemy.
The advantage for empaths is also slight. Unless the empath has a lot of Summoning Lore, she can't reliably summon the herb she wants, and many of the herbs needed cannot be summoned using 1118 (e.g. rose-marrow root, tkaro root, yabathilium fruit, talneo root, brostheras grass, wingstem root). Everything the empath can summon with 1118 can also be bought at the herbalist.
As for whether or not it's worth it, depends on the profession and the character. For my wizard, with the addition of the ayveneh and eoveneh potions, alchemy is very definitely worth it. It also fits into her RP so perfectly that I mastered before those potions existed and would do it again.
Now that she's mastered, I don't really use it a lot. It takes a lot of time to gather ingredients (particularly when there are skins involved) and inventory management is still a nightmare, even with jars. There isn't much to be gained from making anything except enchanting potions.
I love the actual process of alchemy and still believe the system has lots of potential, but it's seeming less and less likely that that potential will be fulfilled.
The advantage for empaths is also slight. Unless the empath has a lot of Summoning Lore, she can't reliably summon the herb she wants, and many of the herbs needed cannot be summoned using 1118 (e.g. rose-marrow root, tkaro root, yabathilium fruit, talneo root, brostheras grass, wingstem root). Everything the empath can summon with 1118 can also be bought at the herbalist.
As for whether or not it's worth it, depends on the profession and the character. For my wizard, with the addition of the ayveneh and eoveneh potions, alchemy is very definitely worth it. It also fits into her RP so perfectly that I mastered before those potions existed and would do it again.
Now that she's mastered, I don't really use it a lot. It takes a lot of time to gather ingredients (particularly when there are skins involved) and inventory management is still a nightmare, even with jars. There isn't much to be gained from making anything except enchanting potions.
I love the actual process of alchemy and still believe the system has lots of potential, but it's seeming less and less likely that that potential will be fulfilled.
SILVERPHOENIX21
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/24/2012 01:00 PM CDT
>The only place haste works for wizards (or anyone else for that matter) doing alchemy is in the menial tasks: sweeping, cleaning, and polishing in the workshops and grinding ingredients; oh yeah, and in distillation. Haste doesn't work in the actual making of alchemy items, which is about 95% of alchemy.
>The advantage for empaths is also slight. Unless the empath has a lot of Summoning Lore, she can't reliably summon the herb she wants, and many of the herbs needed cannot be summoned using 1118 (e.g. rose-marrow root, tkaro root, yabathilium fruit, talneo root, brostheras grass, wingstem root). Everything the empath can summon with 1118 can also be bought at the herbalist.
The benefits being referred to for Hasted wizards and (all) empaths are those involved with foraging, not alchemical crafting. Reducing foraging time, and increasing foraging success rates, adds up over the ridiculous amount of time alchemy requires to master.
>The advantage for empaths is also slight. Unless the empath has a lot of Summoning Lore, she can't reliably summon the herb she wants, and many of the herbs needed cannot be summoned using 1118 (e.g. rose-marrow root, tkaro root, yabathilium fruit, talneo root, brostheras grass, wingstem root). Everything the empath can summon with 1118 can also be bought at the herbalist.
The benefits being referred to for Hasted wizards and (all) empaths are those involved with foraging, not alchemical crafting. Reducing foraging time, and increasing foraging success rates, adds up over the ridiculous amount of time alchemy requires to master.
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/25/2012 10:09 AM CDT
>The benefits being referred to for Hasted wizards and (all) empaths are those involved with foraging, not alchemical crafting. Reducing foraging time, and increasing foraging success rates, adds up over the ridiculous amount of time alchemy requires to master.
The higher level herbs (talneo root, wingstem root, brostheras grass) require ridiculously high end rolls. All haste helped my wizard do was fail faster. Granted, empaths do have the edge there; but honestly, herbs are the least of an alchemist's worries. Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
The real time sinks are collecting skins, finding the other components, and the alchemy process itself (distillation, extraction, spirit recovery, etc.).
This is why I recommend only using two recipes to master General once you get to rank 59: lesser luck talisman and major sneezing powder. Between them are three forageables, two types of crystals (t'ayanad and s'ayanad, which comes out to one t'ayanad crystal per recipe), two other alchemy components (sprite hairs and essence of fire), and malachite stones. Everything else can be bought from the guild shop. I made lesser luck talismans for channeling tasks and major sneezing powder for every other "make item" task. It greatly simplified inventory management and reduced the time I spent preparing for each type of task.
The higher level herbs (talneo root, wingstem root, brostheras grass) require ridiculously high end rolls. All haste helped my wizard do was fail faster. Granted, empaths do have the edge there; but honestly, herbs are the least of an alchemist's worries. Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
The real time sinks are collecting skins, finding the other components, and the alchemy process itself (distillation, extraction, spirit recovery, etc.).
This is why I recommend only using two recipes to master General once you get to rank 59: lesser luck talisman and major sneezing powder. Between them are three forageables, two types of crystals (t'ayanad and s'ayanad, which comes out to one t'ayanad crystal per recipe), two other alchemy components (sprite hairs and essence of fire), and malachite stones. Everything else can be bought from the guild shop. I made lesser luck talismans for channeling tasks and major sneezing powder for every other "make item" task. It greatly simplified inventory management and reduced the time I spent preparing for each type of task.
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/25/2012 11:03 AM CDT
>The advantage for empaths is also slight. Unless the empath has a lot of Summoning Lore, she can't reliably summon the herb she wants, and many of the herbs needed cannot be summoned using 1118 (e.g. rose-marrow root, tkaro root, yabathilium fruit, talneo root, brostheras grass, wingstem root). Everything the empath can summon with 1118 can also be bought at the herbalist.
True, many of them cannot be summoned, and many also not summoned reliably. That said, it is a free source of "grind 10 ingredients" tasks supplies regardless, which are not always freely available from benches (10 years supply of lichen and rose-marrow)or Herbalist stores (if they sell tinctures). It also may not be consistant, but its easy supplies, even if random, for early reps. Not to mention . . . skinning.
>The only place haste works for wizards (or anyone else for that matter) doing alchemy is in the menial tasks: sweeping, cleaning, and polishing in the workshops and grinding ingredients; oh yeah, and in distillation.
As someone who had a 12 rep sweep dust task that took me about 40 minutes . . . cutting those 5-8 RTs down to something much more reasonable is no trivial matter.
>Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
My sorcerer doesn't.
Hey, I'm not saying Empaths and Wizards get some sort of free ride through Alchemy. Even the most cash-loaded, player with tons of resources will take forever . . . I remember when I was grinding towards Sorcerer Guild Master status, I worked with (I believe) Tsin's player, who between MA accounts and tons of cash STILL was taking forever. I think by the time I got my requisite 60-some ranks, he had around 100-some on his Wizard, for all the cash he had.
But I do think that Empaths save money and have easier access to many ingredients than the other 3 pures, and Wizards have increased task completion on several tasks, as well as improved foraging time (which may translate to money saved not having to hire out foraging tasks as often). It equates to taking a significant edge off of wizard mastery time, and a significant edge off of costs for empaths. Not seeing a comparable advantage for either Sorcerers or Clerics.
True, many of them cannot be summoned, and many also not summoned reliably. That said, it is a free source of "grind 10 ingredients" tasks supplies regardless, which are not always freely available from benches (10 years supply of lichen and rose-marrow)or Herbalist stores (if they sell tinctures). It also may not be consistant, but its easy supplies, even if random, for early reps. Not to mention . . . skinning.
>The only place haste works for wizards (or anyone else for that matter) doing alchemy is in the menial tasks: sweeping, cleaning, and polishing in the workshops and grinding ingredients; oh yeah, and in distillation.
As someone who had a 12 rep sweep dust task that took me about 40 minutes . . . cutting those 5-8 RTs down to something much more reasonable is no trivial matter.
>Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
My sorcerer doesn't.
Hey, I'm not saying Empaths and Wizards get some sort of free ride through Alchemy. Even the most cash-loaded, player with tons of resources will take forever . . . I remember when I was grinding towards Sorcerer Guild Master status, I worked with (I believe) Tsin's player, who between MA accounts and tons of cash STILL was taking forever. I think by the time I got my requisite 60-some ranks, he had around 100-some on his Wizard, for all the cash he had.
But I do think that Empaths save money and have easier access to many ingredients than the other 3 pures, and Wizards have increased task completion on several tasks, as well as improved foraging time (which may translate to money saved not having to hire out foraging tasks as often). It equates to taking a significant edge off of wizard mastery time, and a significant edge off of costs for empaths. Not seeing a comparable advantage for either Sorcerers or Clerics.
GRYPES
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/25/2012 01:28 PM CDT
Just a comment on wizard advantages via foraging + haste. Yes, haste gives an advantage to foraging.
The foraging gap between a wizard and other pures is greatly reduced when you factor in haste items which are amazingly easy to access.
Dgry
The foraging gap between a wizard and other pures is greatly reduced when you factor in haste items which are amazingly easy to access.
Dgry
CAELRIC
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/25/2012 01:37 PM CDT
| The foraging gap between a wizard and other pures is greatly reduced when you factor in haste items which are amazingly easy to access. |
Reduced, but still exists, for two reasons. 506 for a wizard is free, but costs something for a non-wizard, and more importantly, very few non-wizards are trained in air lore (and non in major elemental ranks, of course) to get the max benefit from haste.
Still nice, though, if you have haste items.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi
WYNTRFRSH
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/25/2012 08:34 PM CDT
>True, many of them cannot be summoned, and many also not summoned reliably. That said, it is a free source of "grind 10 ingredients" tasks supplies regardless, which are not always freely available from benches (10 years supply of lichen and rose-marrow)or Herbalist stores (if they sell tinctures). It also may not be consistant, but its easy supplies, even if random, for early reps. Not to mention . . . skinning.
Those "grind 10 ingredients" tasks are infrequent at best and don't have to be forageables. If there are no forageables on hand, you can grind up cheap gems or more expensive gems that you can use in an alchemy formulation later.
As far as skinning goes, that isn't free. Empaths have to train to skin, and the other three pures can get basic training. You don't have to be 3x in First Aid to get skins for alchemy. Crude skins work just as well as magnificent ones.
>>Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
>My sorcerer doesn't.
So your character doesn't know any rangers at all? Rangers are foraging machines from level 3 on.
>But I do think that Empaths save money and have easier access to many ingredients than the other 3 pures, and Wizards have increased task completion on several tasks, as well as improved foraging time (which may translate to money saved not having to hire out foraging tasks as often). It equates to taking a significant edge off of wizard mastery time, and a significant edge off of costs for empaths.
I'm not saying that empaths and wizards don't have it easier in some ways. I just don't think it's that much of an advantage in the grand scheme of things. Haste is worthless for wizards when it comes to foraging because wizards are so bad at it that it's a waste of time unless you only need a handful of the herb (such as with the list task or AdG tasks). When you're talking about needing thousands of an herb, you're talking about needing a ranger.
>Not seeing a comparable advantage for either Sorcerers or Clerics.
Clerics (and empaths, too, so score another one for them!) have the ability to create manna bread and meditate. That's a huge time savings after rank 39 in General, especially from 39-59 when all you're making is spirit shards. With the most recent changes to meditation, clerics can make spirit shards all day. And let's not even get into the advantages that certain races have over others when it comes to spirit regeneration...
Those "grind 10 ingredients" tasks are infrequent at best and don't have to be forageables. If there are no forageables on hand, you can grind up cheap gems or more expensive gems that you can use in an alchemy formulation later.
As far as skinning goes, that isn't free. Empaths have to train to skin, and the other three pures can get basic training. You don't have to be 3x in First Aid to get skins for alchemy. Crude skins work just as well as magnificent ones.
>>Who doesn't know a ranger who can forage up 100 or more doses of any herb in 10 minutes or less?
>My sorcerer doesn't.
So your character doesn't know any rangers at all? Rangers are foraging machines from level 3 on.
>But I do think that Empaths save money and have easier access to many ingredients than the other 3 pures, and Wizards have increased task completion on several tasks, as well as improved foraging time (which may translate to money saved not having to hire out foraging tasks as often). It equates to taking a significant edge off of wizard mastery time, and a significant edge off of costs for empaths.
I'm not saying that empaths and wizards don't have it easier in some ways. I just don't think it's that much of an advantage in the grand scheme of things. Haste is worthless for wizards when it comes to foraging because wizards are so bad at it that it's a waste of time unless you only need a handful of the herb (such as with the list task or AdG tasks). When you're talking about needing thousands of an herb, you're talking about needing a ranger.
>Not seeing a comparable advantage for either Sorcerers or Clerics.
Clerics (and empaths, too, so score another one for them!) have the ability to create manna bread and meditate. That's a huge time savings after rank 39 in General, especially from 39-59 when all you're making is spirit shards. With the most recent changes to meditation, clerics can make spirit shards all day. And let's not even get into the advantages that certain races have over others when it comes to spirit regeneration...
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/26/2012 01:14 AM CDT
>Clerics (and empaths, too, so score another one for them!) have the ability to create manna bread and meditate. That's a huge time savings after rank 39 in General, especially from 39-59 when all you're making is spirit shards. With the most recent changes to meditation, clerics can make spirit shards all day. And let's not even get into the advantages that certain races have over others when it comes to spirit regeneration...
Didn't think of that. So its just Sorcerers then. Hmph.
Didn't think of that. So its just Sorcerers then. Hmph.
GRYPES
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/26/2012 01:44 PM CDT
Reduced, but still exists, for two reasons. 506 for a wizard is free, but costs something for a non-wizard, and more importantly, very few non-wizards are trained in air lore (and non in major elemental ranks, of course) to get the max benefit from haste.
Still nice, though, if you have haste items.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
Most classes won't need air lore to be competitive with a mage using natural haste. Mages can at most 1x survival, all other classes can 2x. So your second reason is kind of mute. I've acknowledged haste benefits wizards, but it's not as large of a gap as it's made out to be given the relative ease at which all classes can acquire haste.
Dgry
Still nice, though, if you have haste items.
-Taakhooshi, and Me
Most classes won't need air lore to be competitive with a mage using natural haste. Mages can at most 1x survival, all other classes can 2x. So your second reason is kind of mute. I've acknowledged haste benefits wizards, but it's not as large of a gap as it's made out to be given the relative ease at which all classes can acquire haste.
Dgry
GRYPES
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/26/2012 01:48 PM CDT
>Not seeing a comparable advantage for either Sorcerers or Clerics.
Clerics (and empaths, too, so score another one for them!) have the ability to create manna bread and meditate. That's a huge time savings after rank 39 in General, especially from 39-59 when all you're making is spirit shards. With the most recent changes to meditation, clerics can make spirit shards all day. And let's not even get into the advantages that certain races have over others when it comes to spirit regeneration...
Clerics also have the ability to use 213 (as do empaths) which benefits foraging.
Sorcerers have the easiest of all pures in accessing 603 as they can charge scrolls with 603 come on. They also have a much easier time than other non-wizards at accessing 506 for the same reason.
That being said, and as much as I hate feeding the frenzy, yes sorcerers are at the bottom of the heap in foraging.
Dgry
Clerics (and empaths, too, so score another one for them!) have the ability to create manna bread and meditate. That's a huge time savings after rank 39 in General, especially from 39-59 when all you're making is spirit shards. With the most recent changes to meditation, clerics can make spirit shards all day. And let's not even get into the advantages that certain races have over others when it comes to spirit regeneration...
Clerics also have the ability to use 213 (as do empaths) which benefits foraging.
Sorcerers have the easiest of all pures in accessing 603 as they can charge scrolls with 603 come on. They also have a much easier time than other non-wizards at accessing 506 for the same reason.
That being said, and as much as I hate feeding the frenzy, yes sorcerers are at the bottom of the heap in foraging.
Dgry
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/27/2012 04:12 AM CDT
>That being said, and as much as I hate feeding the frenzy, yes sorcerers are at the bottom of the heap in foraging.
For some reason, I love any statement that ultimately comes down to "Yeah, I know sorcerers whine the most, but this time they are right." I see it way more often that I feel I should.
For some reason, I love any statement that ultimately comes down to "Yeah, I know sorcerers whine the most, but this time they are right." I see it way more often that I feel I should.
GRYPES
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/29/2012 12:09 PM CDT
For some reason, I love any statement that ultimately comes down to "Yeah, I know sorcerers whine the most, but this time they are right." I see it way more often that I feel I should.
If that was your take away as the "ultimate point" of the post, then you didn't read it very well.
Dgry
If that was your take away as the "ultimate point" of the post, then you didn't read it very well.
Dgry
IRVINETOMOE
Re: Alchemy - Best recipes to mastery?
08/29/2012 06:25 PM CDT
It was merely all I commented on. I read your post.
