Previous
Aulis got right down to work and managed to get the revamp in place already! We still have to do some tidying up, as well as get some of the topics visible. Give us a day or so to get the final touches in place.
Wyrom, PM
SIMU-WYROM
KANDOR
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 05:02 PM CDT
I hope the forum revamp doesn't entail losing history of old messages. The loss of thousands of ideas (good or bad) and questions (answered or otherwise) and great stories posted by players would be tragic.
GS4-AULIS
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 05:34 PM CDT
>>I hope the forum revamp doesn't entail losing history of old messages. The loss of thousands of ideas (good or bad) and questions (answered or otherwise) and great stories posted by players would be tragic.
All those posts are still there. Nothing was "deleted", per say. Just out of view without having a certain account access.
On that note, or at least very related to it, there's a hard-coded part of the forum software where messages already "decay" after X amount of time and are no longer view-able by customers. This decay timer used to be changeable for each category/topic, and then there was an update--that was quite a few years ago--where it was no longer possible to change it from the default. It's actually been so long ago that I forget what the default timer was; my best guess is ~900 days.
So even if the forums hadn't gone through a revamp, eventually there would have been a time where messages would have decayed and been lost from view. This is why we've always tried to recommend saving messages to other areas, such as the wiki.
One of the major concerns that sparked the need for a forum revamp was already complaints/concerns from brand new, returning, or current players that information wasn't easily found on the forums in its previous state. Too much time was spent, and frustration generated, from having to wade through thousands of posts to find useful information in a timely manner.
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
All those posts are still there. Nothing was "deleted", per say. Just out of view without having a certain account access.
On that note, or at least very related to it, there's a hard-coded part of the forum software where messages already "decay" after X amount of time and are no longer view-able by customers. This decay timer used to be changeable for each category/topic, and then there was an update--that was quite a few years ago--where it was no longer possible to change it from the default. It's actually been so long ago that I forget what the default timer was; my best guess is ~900 days.
So even if the forums hadn't gone through a revamp, eventually there would have been a time where messages would have decayed and been lost from view. This is why we've always tried to recommend saving messages to other areas, such as the wiki.
One of the major concerns that sparked the need for a forum revamp was already complaints/concerns from brand new, returning, or current players that information wasn't easily found on the forums in its previous state. Too much time was spent, and frustration generated, from having to wade through thousands of posts to find useful information in a timely manner.
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
VANKRASN39
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 05:52 PM CDT
>Just out of view without having a certain account access.
.... seriously? you don't write your own comprehensive documentation, then you hide the "documentation" that you do have from the players.
VANKRASN39
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 05:56 PM CDT
Right now Estild is in discord collecting links to specific threads that people want to move manually. the fact that he even has to do that and players have to supply the links is ludicrous
HIRAETH
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 07:07 PM CDT
I might be an extremely new player, but the fact that Gemstone is a living and ever changing world is one of the reason I plan to make it my home for a long time, and as such: the amount of history that is lost to any sort of forum 'decay', is an absolute tragedy. There is already a seemingly endless list of storylines and events that I can't seem to find any information on aside from shop lists, unless someone's old anglefire site was captured by the wayback machine and I get lucky and trip over it in my research. This should be better preserved across the board.
https://gswiki.play.net/Avawren
https://gswiki.play.net/Avawren
OM1E5GA
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 07:19 PM CDT
<.... seriously? you don't write your own comprehensive documentation, then you hide the "documentation" that you do have from the players.>
Since the wiki was Krakipedia, the majority of important NIR posts that have appeared on the forums have been preserved on the wiki, often a few minutes after the post was created. There have been some that didn't make it over there (lore-related posts seem to be the least likely to have been saved), but chances are that if an NIR said it here and it's related to mechanics then it was saved over there somewhere. I noticed quite a while ago that there are a lot of saved-post pages that never got linked to appropriate articles though, I'll have to park my warrior in the forge in the next day or two and see about doing something about that.
As for posts disappearing after a certain amount of time, I'd be surprised if they didn't... esp as active as these forums used to be. If old posts didn't eventually "decay", there could get to be so many that it could cause bugs to crop up on the forums (esp given how old the coding for the forums is).
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Since the wiki was Krakipedia, the majority of important NIR posts that have appeared on the forums have been preserved on the wiki, often a few minutes after the post was created. There have been some that didn't make it over there (lore-related posts seem to be the least likely to have been saved), but chances are that if an NIR said it here and it's related to mechanics then it was saved over there somewhere. I noticed quite a while ago that there are a lot of saved-post pages that never got linked to appropriate articles though, I'll have to park my warrior in the forge in the next day or two and see about doing something about that.
As for posts disappearing after a certain amount of time, I'd be surprised if they didn't... esp as active as these forums used to be. If old posts didn't eventually "decay", there could get to be so many that it could cause bugs to crop up on the forums (esp given how old the coding for the forums is).
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
VANKRASN39
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 07:23 PM CDT
>Since the wiki was Krakipedia, the majority of important NIR posts that have appeared on the forums have been preserved on the wiki
yeah, thanks to me.
VANKRASN39
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 07:29 PM CDT
Par of email from Solomon with Simu's intentions:
>>The reason I'm contacting you is to announce that in the very near future, we're going to be opening up a new version of Krakiipedia on our servers. Before you panic, don't panic! Krakiipedia has always been a player-maintained entity and we want to keep it that way. Our main goals here are to make it more "official", to eliminate outdated documentation on our site, to tie in to our account database to manage users better (more in this in a second), to take the burden and hassle of hosting this off the players' shoulders, to give the GMs more leeway in posting and maintaining official documentation, to do things like more freely use Simu artwork, and potentially look into making some enhancements to the wiki's appearance and functionality. We'll also be able to identify other people who can help out on the admin side of things and more quickly get them the tools they need to make Krakiipedia even more awesome and useful than it already is.
right now besides the "hosting" part, none of that is happening, and it was just made worse.
OM1E5GA
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 07:31 PM CDT
<yeah, thanks to me.>
Don't toot your horn too loudly, it started years before Sept of 2012
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Don't toot your horn too loudly, it started years before Sept of 2012
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
VANKRASN39
Wiki temp files
09/14/2018 07:43 PM CDT
Someone needs to ask onsite to please delete the wiki temp files so it doesn't crash during EG.
Thank you.
KANDOR
Re: Forum Revamp
09/14/2018 10:38 PM CDT
Having to copy recent posts into new threads is awful, and I'm watching it happen in the new profession folders. If there can't be continuity with the old folders, at least retain them under a new parent folder, something like GEMSTONE IV > OLD FORUMS. That way players can still go there and search and link back to old posts when creating a thread in the new folders.
As far as retention goes, we have a lot of clever players here who write programs aside from scripts. It seems plausible to scrape the messages, store them in a DB (or quasi-DB), and display them somewhere else where the posts won't decay over time. Even better if we could somehow get to the old posts that have decayed.
As far as retention goes, we have a lot of clever players here who write programs aside from scripts. It seems plausible to scrape the messages, store them in a DB (or quasi-DB), and display them somewhere else where the posts won't decay over time. Even better if we could somehow get to the old posts that have decayed.
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp
09/15/2018 10:55 PM CDT
>>I might be an extremely new player, but the fact that Gemstone is a living and ever changing world is one of the reason I plan to make it my home for a long time, and as such: the amount of history that is lost to any sort of forum 'decay', is an absolute tragedy. There is already a seemingly endless list of storylines and events that I can't seem to find any information on aside from shop lists, unless someone's old anglefire site was captured by the wayback machine and I get lucky and trip over it in my research. This should be better preserved across the board.
Unfortunately, the forum decay has existed ever since we started using this forum software, which has been well over a decade. As Aulis mentioned, it's roughly 900 days. Topics that had really low traffic seemed to have persisted the longest. This decay isn't something we control. And once something decays, it's not visible to game staff either. I don't know if someone onsite can see any of the decayed posts. I know I cannot.
Storylines and events were 100% preserved in the forum revamp. We didn't remove any topics in those categories outside the very dead socializing ones.
>>Par of email from Solomon with Simu's intentions:
>>>>The reason I'm contacting you is to announce that in the very near future, we're going to be opening up a new version of Krakiipedia on our servers. Before you panic, don't panic! Krakiipedia has always been a player-maintained entity and we want to keep it that way. Our main goals here are to make it more "official", to eliminate outdated documentation on our site, to tie in to our account database to manage users better (more in this in a second), to take the burden and hassle of hosting this off the players' shoulders, to give the GMs more leeway in posting and maintaining official documentation, to do things like more freely use Simu artwork, and potentially look into making some enhancements to the wiki's appearance and functionality. We'll also be able to identify other people who can help out on the admin side of things and more quickly get them the tools they need to make Krakiipedia even more awesome and useful than it already is.
>>right now besides the "hosting" part, none of that is happening, and it was just made worse.
And how much of that did Solomon implement when he was here? Now, I've told you I've talked with the people who did set this all up (it wasn't Solomon), and the intentions were to host, maintain the DB, and keep the wiki running. Simutronics did not come to the game staff and state things would be changing when the Krakiipedia was ported over to the GSWiki. I've gone ahead and brought on a GameMaster whose primary tasks are to work on the wiki. She recently cleared most of her training and started on the wiki this month.
You can keep repeating this as many times as you'd like, but Solomon is no longer with Simutronics. Whatever promises he made are no longer applicable. We will continue to do what we can to manage the GSWiki.
>>Having to copy recent posts into new threads is awful, and I'm watching it happen in the new profession folders. If there can't be continuity with the old folders, at least retain them under a new parent folder, something like GEMSTONE IV > OLD FORUMS. That way players can still go there and search and link back to old posts when creating a thread in the new folders.
The forum revamp isn't fully complete. The categories and topics were implemented, but we're still in the process of moving relative threads over. Unfortunately, Aulis had an injury, so his time is limited with the forums. A few of us have been doing what we can. If there is a specific thread or topic that you feel is missing that is crucial to have back right away, feel me to let us know. You can also email me directly.
Keeping the old categories and topics alive in a read-only state wasn't possible, or we would have done that.
Wyrom, PM
Unfortunately, the forum decay has existed ever since we started using this forum software, which has been well over a decade. As Aulis mentioned, it's roughly 900 days. Topics that had really low traffic seemed to have persisted the longest. This decay isn't something we control. And once something decays, it's not visible to game staff either. I don't know if someone onsite can see any of the decayed posts. I know I cannot.
Storylines and events were 100% preserved in the forum revamp. We didn't remove any topics in those categories outside the very dead socializing ones.
>>Par of email from Solomon with Simu's intentions:
>>>>The reason I'm contacting you is to announce that in the very near future, we're going to be opening up a new version of Krakiipedia on our servers. Before you panic, don't panic! Krakiipedia has always been a player-maintained entity and we want to keep it that way. Our main goals here are to make it more "official", to eliminate outdated documentation on our site, to tie in to our account database to manage users better (more in this in a second), to take the burden and hassle of hosting this off the players' shoulders, to give the GMs more leeway in posting and maintaining official documentation, to do things like more freely use Simu artwork, and potentially look into making some enhancements to the wiki's appearance and functionality. We'll also be able to identify other people who can help out on the admin side of things and more quickly get them the tools they need to make Krakiipedia even more awesome and useful than it already is.
>>right now besides the "hosting" part, none of that is happening, and it was just made worse.
And how much of that did Solomon implement when he was here? Now, I've told you I've talked with the people who did set this all up (it wasn't Solomon), and the intentions were to host, maintain the DB, and keep the wiki running. Simutronics did not come to the game staff and state things would be changing when the Krakiipedia was ported over to the GSWiki. I've gone ahead and brought on a GameMaster whose primary tasks are to work on the wiki. She recently cleared most of her training and started on the wiki this month.
You can keep repeating this as many times as you'd like, but Solomon is no longer with Simutronics. Whatever promises he made are no longer applicable. We will continue to do what we can to manage the GSWiki.
>>Having to copy recent posts into new threads is awful, and I'm watching it happen in the new profession folders. If there can't be continuity with the old folders, at least retain them under a new parent folder, something like GEMSTONE IV > OLD FORUMS. That way players can still go there and search and link back to old posts when creating a thread in the new folders.
The forum revamp isn't fully complete. The categories and topics were implemented, but we're still in the process of moving relative threads over. Unfortunately, Aulis had an injury, so his time is limited with the forums. A few of us have been doing what we can. If there is a specific thread or topic that you feel is missing that is crucial to have back right away, feel me to let us know. You can also email me directly.
Keeping the old categories and topics alive in a read-only state wasn't possible, or we would have done that.
Wyrom, PM
ALLENM20
Re: Forum Revamp
09/16/2018 08:33 AM CDT
Hindsight being 20/20, perhaps a more structured approach in the future rather than nuking everything at once.
Is it possible to just add a forum on the official wiki? I've seen a few wikis that seem to function as a wiki and a forum.
Is it possible to just add a forum on the official wiki? I've seen a few wikis that seem to function as a wiki and a forum.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| Whick's body sways back and forth for a bit. |
| * Whick drops dead at your feet! |
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp
09/16/2018 04:28 PM CDT
>>Hindsight being 20/20, perhaps a more structured approach in the future rather than nuking everything at once.
Nothing was nuked. This was actually very structured. Phase one was getting the new layout in. Phase two is getting the topics and categories in order (just about done). Phase three is moving relevant threads to the corresponding topics.
>>Is it possible to just add a forum on the official wiki? I've seen a few wikis that seem to function as a wiki and a forum.
That's new software, that's not something I can get approved at this time.
Wyrom, PM
Nothing was nuked. This was actually very structured. Phase one was getting the new layout in. Phase two is getting the topics and categories in order (just about done). Phase three is moving relevant threads to the corresponding topics.
>>Is it possible to just add a forum on the official wiki? I've seen a few wikis that seem to function as a wiki and a forum.
That's new software, that's not something I can get approved at this time.
Wyrom, PM
ALLENM20
Re: Forum Revamp
09/16/2018 10:15 PM CDT
>>Nothing was nuked. This was actually very structured. Phase one was getting the new layout in. Phase two is getting the topics and categories in order (just about done). Phase three is moving relevant threads to the corresponding topics.
From the players perspective, the change was very dramatic. The major issue I see from the player's perspective Wyrom is that it is difficult at this point for us to go back and search for any threads we want to have moved.
I just don't think the following points were communicated very well:
1. Many folders would have all previous threads deleted
2. There will be no link to the old forums to search for relevant or important posts
3. The above 2 changes would occur overnight without some timeframe for player's to save information
In this day and age, its not an unreasonable expectation for people to assume data will pretty much always be recoverable. There are instances where this is not the case, but give the length of the games existence and that some people have been playing characters for over two decades, its not an unreasonable assumption on the part of the playerbase to assume data pertaining to the game will be readily available for perusal or recovery into the future.
Now that you've explained how the forum works and that posts decay eventually, players are able to better work around those limitations. Obviously anyone that wants to ensure information is saved for posterity's sake should save a copy to their hard drive or cloud or add to their character's profile on the official wiki.
The best analogy I have for this situation is an old photobook. I might not have looked at the photos for the past 10 years, but I know I have it around the house somewhere and eventually I'll get around to reminiscing. From the player's perception, a lot of memories were removed from player's being able to access them.
I understand you're probably frustrated by the limitations imposed by you due to just being a middle man essentially as your hands are tied in regards to decision making on many levels, but to me this is one of the classic examples of poor communication regarding something that may appear to be simple on the service but has far reaching consequences due to many assumptions being made on the part of the players and staff.
Its all intangible in the end and I suppose messing with the forums reminds folks that it can all disappear in the blink of an eye and that upsets some people. Hell, it might terrify some folks to be reminded that Gemstone might go away eventually after devoting so much energy, time, and money to it.
From the players perspective, the change was very dramatic. The major issue I see from the player's perspective Wyrom is that it is difficult at this point for us to go back and search for any threads we want to have moved.
I just don't think the following points were communicated very well:
1. Many folders would have all previous threads deleted
2. There will be no link to the old forums to search for relevant or important posts
3. The above 2 changes would occur overnight without some timeframe for player's to save information
In this day and age, its not an unreasonable expectation for people to assume data will pretty much always be recoverable. There are instances where this is not the case, but give the length of the games existence and that some people have been playing characters for over two decades, its not an unreasonable assumption on the part of the playerbase to assume data pertaining to the game will be readily available for perusal or recovery into the future.
Now that you've explained how the forum works and that posts decay eventually, players are able to better work around those limitations. Obviously anyone that wants to ensure information is saved for posterity's sake should save a copy to their hard drive or cloud or add to their character's profile on the official wiki.
The best analogy I have for this situation is an old photobook. I might not have looked at the photos for the past 10 years, but I know I have it around the house somewhere and eventually I'll get around to reminiscing. From the player's perception, a lot of memories were removed from player's being able to access them.
I understand you're probably frustrated by the limitations imposed by you due to just being a middle man essentially as your hands are tied in regards to decision making on many levels, but to me this is one of the classic examples of poor communication regarding something that may appear to be simple on the service but has far reaching consequences due to many assumptions being made on the part of the players and staff.
Its all intangible in the end and I suppose messing with the forums reminds folks that it can all disappear in the blink of an eye and that upsets some people. Hell, it might terrify some folks to be reminded that Gemstone might go away eventually after devoting so much energy, time, and money to it.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| Whick's body sways back and forth for a bit. |
| * Whick drops dead at your feet! |
LUXELLE
Re: Forum Revamp
09/17/2018 12:56 AM CDT
I am still cleaning up the TownCrier headlines that had links into the Forums. We scraped the content last week and will be including the posts in the archives when it is all finished editing.
So, while only wee bits, it means that the news items will be both searchable and preserved.
Thank you to Wyrom for giving us a heads up on it talking it over with me as we made these plans.
Thank you to Jahadeem for stepping in when the TownCrier staff was BURIED, and writing the code to do it quickly!
~L.
---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"
TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews
So, while only wee bits, it means that the news items will be both searchable and preserved.
Thank you to Wyrom for giving us a heads up on it talking it over with me as we made these plans.
Thank you to Jahadeem for stepping in when the TownCrier staff was BURIED, and writing the code to do it quickly!
~L.
---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"
TownCrier News Submission link: http://bit.ly/TownCrierNews
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp
09/17/2018 11:39 AM CDT
I appreciate the in-depth response, ALLENM20. It's actually refreshing to get that insight. I realize it's a big change, trust me. We did this so nothing was lost, hence why Aulis mentioned about an access check. A gradual layout change would just prolong everything and cause even more confusion, so we had to just rip the bandaid off and get it done.
We aren't requiring players to get old URLs to move threads (it helps, but we're going through it without the requests). Moving old threads is a bit time consuming, so it will take awhile. It also causes some out-of-order thread structuring, but hopefully that won't cause too much of an issue. If the history of the forums was preserved indefinitely, I would certainly not do such a massive revamp.
As for being the middle man, that's really not an accurate description of me. I just have a boss. I don't have approval for new forum software. But I do read every complaint that comes through. Something had to be done drastically to the forums.
Wyrom, PM
We aren't requiring players to get old URLs to move threads (it helps, but we're going through it without the requests). Moving old threads is a bit time consuming, so it will take awhile. It also causes some out-of-order thread structuring, but hopefully that won't cause too much of an issue. If the history of the forums was preserved indefinitely, I would certainly not do such a massive revamp.
As for being the middle man, that's really not an accurate description of me. I just have a boss. I don't have approval for new forum software. But I do read every complaint that comes through. Something had to be done drastically to the forums.
Wyrom, PM
ROBLAR
Re: Forum Revamp
09/17/2018 05:30 PM CDT
There is a request on Discord for the olders F2P posts to be visible.
I don't have a link as only ones from yesterday are showing up and I think there was more than one folder before so not sure if the thread was in current F2P Players or not.
I don't have a link as only ones from yesterday are showing up and I think there was more than one folder before so not sure if the thread was in current F2P Players or not.
MAYNIST
Re: Forum Revamp
09/18/2018 02:00 PM CDT
I appreciate there is a lot of cleanup going on, but I want to mention that in GS4-ESTILD's recent announcement regarding the new offline recovery feature, the link to discuss the topic in the forums is broken.
GS4-ESTILD
Re: Forum Revamp
09/18/2018 02:06 PM CDT
| MAYNIST |
| I appreciate there is a lot of cleanup going on, but I want to mention that in GS4-ESTILD's recent announcement regarding the new offline recovery feature, the link to discuss the topic in the forums is broken. |
You can find the thread here:
http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/General%20GemStone%20IV%20Discussion/General%20Discussion%20about%20Gemstone%20IV/view/3552
GameMaster Estild
KRAKII
Re: Forum Revamp
09/19/2018 09:42 AM CDT
I know that the traffic in the Marketplace had dropped to nearly nothing; is that Category now gone the way of the dodo?
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp
09/19/2018 11:01 AM CDT
For now, yes. The category as a whole was pretty dead. There were some topics with activity in the last 3 months, but most topics had been dead for years.
Wyrom, PM
Wyrom, PM
OM1E5GA
Re: Forum Revamp
09/19/2018 11:25 AM CDT
<For now, yes. The category as a whole was pretty dead. There were some topics with activity in the last 3 months, but most topics had been dead for years.>
Can we get just a single folder for selling/appraisals put back?
I understand why they weren't included in the revamp, but there are some that don't use PC/Discord that is would be nice to be able to reach when selling or offering services and if the revamp results in a rise in traffic...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
Can we get just a single folder for selling/appraisals put back?
I understand why they weren't included in the revamp, but there are some that don't use PC/Discord that is would be nice to be able to reach when selling or offering services and if the revamp results in a rise in traffic...
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
SIMU-WYROM
KRAKII
Re: Forum Revamp
09/19/2018 12:47 PM CDT
And I know that I was fairly regular in asking about one end or the other of Professional Services (looking for an Ensorcel [thanks, Starchitin!] or Infuse [thanks, Askip!]), for example...
PHILIPJFRY
Re: Forum Revamp
09/25/2018 08:47 AM CDT
I just don't understand the whole calling of the forum posts removal as a "revamp".
Nothing was revamped. Things were pulled/hidden from view to players. That's just a clean up. Lots of people used older posts - though they were a pain to track down at times - to reference things or to follow up on things.
Now, 95% of everything is gone for players to view and access from past posts. Why didn't Simu just call it a "forum deletion"? Or a "forum hiding of posts from players that utilize the forums"?
There is no new form to the forums. Things were just removed. The forums look exactly the same as they always have, except it has fewer posts.
Almost nothing was consolidated - meaning old posts were simply just hidden/removed instead of being ported to a new topic or at least being accessible in an "old forums" link.
There is no new appearance to the forums - still the same old forums from years back, nothing new.
So I don't understand why it would be called a "revamp".
What players were used to and could actually navigate (mostly) has been pretty much cleaned out. Seems like a complete waste of time because players are now asking for things to be brought back and when a new folder is made to replace what was taken away, there are zero old posts populated in the new folder. The marketplace folder was brought back because someone was using it to do an enchanting project for another player....they couldn't remember who the player was and now that the marketplace folder is back it doesn't matter because the original posts are gone.
With all that being said, what exactly was the point of the "revamp"? Aulis gave an answer, but it's a bit flat, in my opinion:
So the whole idea of "hiding" old posts to clean things up and removing posts that had answers and questions and ideas was good? The forums, without a search option, will just fall into disarray again as time goes on and posts build up. You guys haven't fixed anything, you just wiped the slate clean. Eventually it'll get full of junk that you'll have to clean it again and you'll be right back here with people complaining.
Nothing was revamped. Things were pulled/hidden from view to players. That's just a clean up. Lots of people used older posts - though they were a pain to track down at times - to reference things or to follow up on things.
Now, 95% of everything is gone for players to view and access from past posts. Why didn't Simu just call it a "forum deletion"? Or a "forum hiding of posts from players that utilize the forums"?
There is no new form to the forums. Things were just removed. The forums look exactly the same as they always have, except it has fewer posts.
Almost nothing was consolidated - meaning old posts were simply just hidden/removed instead of being ported to a new topic or at least being accessible in an "old forums" link.
There is no new appearance to the forums - still the same old forums from years back, nothing new.
So I don't understand why it would be called a "revamp".
What players were used to and could actually navigate (mostly) has been pretty much cleaned out. Seems like a complete waste of time because players are now asking for things to be brought back and when a new folder is made to replace what was taken away, there are zero old posts populated in the new folder. The marketplace folder was brought back because someone was using it to do an enchanting project for another player....they couldn't remember who the player was and now that the marketplace folder is back it doesn't matter because the original posts are gone.
With all that being said, what exactly was the point of the "revamp"? Aulis gave an answer, but it's a bit flat, in my opinion:
| One of the major concerns that sparked the need for a forum revamp was already complaints/concerns from brand new, returning, or current players that information wasn't easily found on the forums in its previous state. Too much time was spent, and frustration generated, from having to wade through thousands of posts to find useful information in a timely manner. |
| ~Aulis |
So the whole idea of "hiding" old posts to clean things up and removing posts that had answers and questions and ideas was good? The forums, without a search option, will just fall into disarray again as time goes on and posts build up. You guys haven't fixed anything, you just wiped the slate clean. Eventually it'll get full of junk that you'll have to clean it again and you'll be right back here with people complaining.
GS4-AULIS
Re: Forum Revamp
09/25/2018 10:18 PM CDT
The forums are still going through their revamp. It's not finished yet. Have patience, please.
Lots, if not all, of the old topics are going into a category that is set to "read only". But there are a TON of them, so it's taking time to do since it can't be done as a batch move. Every single topic has to be moved manually by me (or Wyrom).
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
Lots, if not all, of the old topics are going into a category that is set to "read only". But there are a TON of them, so it's taking time to do since it can't be done as a batch move. Every single topic has to be moved manually by me (or Wyrom).
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
GS4-AULIS
Re: Forum Revamp
09/29/2018 11:07 PM CDT
All the old topics should be moved now to the read-only category. Thank you all for your patience in this process.
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
~Aulis
Platinum Co-Guru
Forums Manager
QC'er
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp
09/30/2018 05:55 PM CDT
Originally we didn't think we could make this possible. But manually going through each topic and creating a new category, we were able to get this done. We were also able to get some older posts recovered in those old topics, but just be aware that the forum decay will happen. I think we managed to get some pretty old threads resurrected during this.
Wyrom, PM
Wyrom, PM
DRAFIX
Re: Forum Revamp
10/01/2018 01:19 PM CDT
Fantastic! Thanks for all the hard work and manual labour, much appreciated.
Why Wyrom, it almost sounds like you could use some extra help ...
*nudge nudge wink wink*
Why Wyrom, it almost sounds like you could use some extra help ...
*nudge nudge wink wink*
PHILIPJFRY
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
10/02/2018 11:54 AM CDT
| All the old topics should be moved now to the read-only category. Thank you all for your patience in this process. |
| ~Aulis |
Awesome work. Nice to see the old forums are still accessible in some form.
However, I don't see the Wizard profession folders, aside from "Wizard Announcements". I see pretty much all other profession folders, even the ones for Savants and they're not a playable profession. Hopefully you guys can still get the rest of the wizard folders out there for us to see.
Thanks for all the work.
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
10/04/2018 10:59 AM CDT
>>However, I don't see the Wizard profession folders, aside from "Wizard Announcements".
It's all there.
Wyrom, PM
It's all there.
Wyrom, PM
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
10/04/2018 11:53 AM CDT
Just follow the trail of tears... :p
-- Robert
In a shuddering pronouncement, a deathsworn fanatic says, "On wings blacker than night, they ascend to the highest heavens. The Black Prince lies dreaming, never to sleep!"
A zombie looks at the ground longingly.
-- Robert
In a shuddering pronouncement, a deathsworn fanatic says, "On wings blacker than night, they ascend to the highest heavens. The Black Prince lies dreaming, never to sleep!"
A zombie looks at the ground longingly.
BBRODRIGUEZ
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 07:38 AM CST
I'm a bit behind and catching up here. I was going through some old, saved link locations for a couple of ideas I saw from a while back under the old forum layout, but I don't see a specific folder anymore.
Can you guys, when you have time, verify if the "Game Developer's - Game Design" folder has been copied over?
I wanted to go through some old posts and update my links and make copies on my end of some posts, but I don't see this folder.
Thanks.
Can you guys, when you have time, verify if the "Game Developer's - Game Design" folder has been copied over?
I wanted to go through some old posts and update my links and make copies on my end of some posts, but I don't see this folder.
Thanks.
DOUG
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 10:00 AM CST
Old folders are here: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Old%20Forum%20Topics%20%5BRead%20Only%5D/view
May need to set your 'ALL posts' instead of 'Unread posts' to see it.
Doug
May need to set your 'ALL posts' instead of 'Unread posts' to see it.
Doug
BBRODRIGUEZ
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 01:14 PM CST
| Old folders are here: http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Old%20Forum%20Topics%20%5BRead%20Only%5D/view |
| May need to set your 'ALL posts' instead of 'Unread posts' to see it. |
| Doug |
Yes, I understand that. I have it set to "All"
Not "All Watched"
Not "Unread Only"
I see 15 folders that start with Developer's Corner, but I do not find the one named "Developer's Corner - Game Design"
| Here are the 15 folders I found that start with Developer's Corner |
| New Player Concerns & Systems |
| Front Ends and Computers |
| Weapons and Armor |
| Spell Systems |
| Bards |
| Clerics |
| Empaths |
| Rangers |
| Rogues |
| Sorcerers |
| Warriors |
| Wizards |
| Paladins |
| Monks |
| Savants |
DOUG
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 01:23 PM CST
Yes, that's what I see. I likewise don't see that specific topic.
So the only hope is for an NIR to confirm it was consolidated into one of the current topics, or if it was blanked/left out. I honestly do not think there was anything purposefully zeroed out. I do know some content was pulled into the new format. But I don't think any of us have any 'record of' what moved where outside of the GMs involved.
Doug
So the only hope is for an NIR to confirm it was consolidated into one of the current topics, or if it was blanked/left out. I honestly do not think there was anything purposefully zeroed out. I do know some content was pulled into the new format. But I don't think any of us have any 'record of' what moved where outside of the GMs involved.
Doug
SIMU-WYROM
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 02:30 PM CST
It's in Combat, Magic, and Character Mechanics under the main GemStone IV forum categories.
Wyrom, PM
Wyrom, PM
BBRODRIGUEZ
Re: Forum Revamp - missing folders
12/28/2018 02:59 PM CST
>It's in Combat, Magic, and Character Mechanics under the main GemStone IV forum categories.
Thanks for a spot to check....however, I still don't see the posts I'm looking for. Either they were omitted with other posts or just not copied over during the switch....or they were moved some other place that I just have found yet???
The last place I had them listed as being was "Game Design Discussions/Developer's Corner - Game Deisgn" under the old forums. I'd just pull up the folder and browse for a minute or two and the topics would pop out at me....one was about mana and another was about adventurer guild suggestions - yeah, I know, that's pretty vague.
So I've been digging through the new forum layout and the old one, but I just haven't had any luck. I can't remember the name of the topics, either, but I'll know them when I see them.
If you guys have any other ideas where all the posts from "Game Design Discussions/Developer's Corner - Game Deisgn" may have gone, let me know. I'll keep digging during my free time.
Thanks.
Thanks for a spot to check....however, I still don't see the posts I'm looking for. Either they were omitted with other posts or just not copied over during the switch....or they were moved some other place that I just have found yet???
The last place I had them listed as being was "Game Design Discussions/Developer's Corner - Game Deisgn" under the old forums. I'd just pull up the folder and browse for a minute or two and the topics would pop out at me....one was about mana and another was about adventurer guild suggestions - yeah, I know, that's pretty vague.
So I've been digging through the new forum layout and the old one, but I just haven't had any luck. I can't remember the name of the topics, either, but I'll know them when I see them.
If you guys have any other ideas where all the posts from "Game Design Discussions/Developer's Corner - Game Deisgn" may have gone, let me know. I'll keep digging during my free time.
Thanks.
