Hey all,
Please review the proposal for Spell Rings which are an alternative weapon choice to rune staffs. We appreciate your feedback.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W9S1plWwiO_evzlC7Jf0xuLINxQ4KlCw7OQD8sWzEbM/edit?usp=sharing
- Naijin
GS4-NAIJIN
GIDION
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 09:18 AM CDT
Regarding the functional ring slots - it also means gold rings can’t be worn, interfering with 225 and 130.
VERIDIOUS2
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 10:05 AM CDT
I really like the concept, and the tradeoffs do seem mostly appropriate, however I think perhaps the slots could be like ring + gloves rather than two rings. Not being able to wear a gold ring for things like 225 is a big drawback, and figuring out potential balance between UAC + rings where if it was gloves + ring it could allow some definition there.
Overall I highly support new options for weapons for casters.
Overall I highly support new options for weapons for casters.
WOMBATSANDERS
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 10:16 AM CDT
How would this interact with UCS gloves? I'm on board to get flares/scripts on casts while brawling, but if I'm training in brawling anyway, I'm going to punch stuff.
I'd definitely like to see some more offensively-oriented pure weapon types. Maybe instead of giving you DS, your magical skills could give you AS/UAF to make up for your missing weapon training? I'd still drop my staff in a heartbeat for these, but they lack a little oomph being basically defensive-only aside from scripts/flares, although the channel bonus is a huge deal.
I'd definitely like to see some more offensively-oriented pure weapon types. Maybe instead of giving you DS, your magical skills could give you AS/UAF to make up for your missing weapon training? I'd still drop my staff in a heartbeat for these, but they lack a little oomph being basically defensive-only aside from scripts/flares, although the channel bonus is a huge deal.
OM1E5GA
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 10:48 AM CDT
Some initial thoughts:
-Those that don't mind the extra vulnerability of channeling in a more open stance then guarded (I'm not one of them) will prolly like these, but they're trading away the parry benefits of runestaves against ranged/bolt/ball attacks (which exist in most hunting grounds above level 50 or so). Sure, they can pull out a shield, but then they're giving up the main reason to be using these rings.
-Don't under-estimate the draw-back of giving up both functional ring slots for this.... even with 4 different transport abilities available to him, my near-cap sorcerer still regularly uses gold rings. Sure, these days it's usually in situations where it wouldn't be dangerous to pull these off to use a gold ring, but it'd still be a hassle...
-The value of these is going to depend on how many fewer spell ranks a pure will have to have vrs one that uses a runestaff to effectively use them. If their CS drops so much that the warding margin advantage of channeling becomes negligible or disappears, they won't be very popular.
-It feels like MIU, Arcane Symbols, or a combo of the two would make more sense then brawling. Aside from how expensive brawling is for pures, martial training just doesn't feel like it fits with the theme of the type of pure that's going to use these (although, maybe war-paths, war-mages, etc would find a way to use UCS with them.... not gonna speculate on that since it's so far outside of what I'm familiar with).
-Speaking of the above thought, how would these work when someone's wearing UCS gloves/boots or how do they interact with UCS in general? I could see UCS warriors/rogues wanting them depending on how they interacted with that system.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
-Those that don't mind the extra vulnerability of channeling in a more open stance then guarded (I'm not one of them) will prolly like these, but they're trading away the parry benefits of runestaves against ranged/bolt/ball attacks (which exist in most hunting grounds above level 50 or so). Sure, they can pull out a shield, but then they're giving up the main reason to be using these rings.
-Don't under-estimate the draw-back of giving up both functional ring slots for this.... even with 4 different transport abilities available to him, my near-cap sorcerer still regularly uses gold rings. Sure, these days it's usually in situations where it wouldn't be dangerous to pull these off to use a gold ring, but it'd still be a hassle...
-The value of these is going to depend on how many fewer spell ranks a pure will have to have vrs one that uses a runestaff to effectively use them. If their CS drops so much that the warding margin advantage of channeling becomes negligible or disappears, they won't be very popular.
-It feels like MIU, Arcane Symbols, or a combo of the two would make more sense then brawling. Aside from how expensive brawling is for pures, martial training just doesn't feel like it fits with the theme of the type of pure that's going to use these (although, maybe war-paths, war-mages, etc would find a way to use UCS with them.... not gonna speculate on that since it's so far outside of what I'm familiar with).
-Speaking of the above thought, how would these work when someone's wearing UCS gloves/boots or how do they interact with UCS in general? I could see UCS warriors/rogues wanting them depending on how they interacted with that system.
Starchitin, the OG
A severed gnomish hand crawls in on its fingertips and makes a rude gesture before quickly decaying and rotting into dust. A gust of wind quickly scatters the dust.
STORMWIND51
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 11:11 AM CDT
1. 2 ring slots is pretty harsh. Some people might have already put on a black ora ring too. Luckily the necro ring can swap locations
2. In fact, it's 2 ring slots + bracer because you'd want to buy the DR vambraces with parry cert to get around the non-parry issue right? I suppose you could get a SK 1214 item instead.
3. Which rare woods/metals will work with the ring? Surita?
4. Any chance you'll let us migrate our existing runestaff properties to one or set up some kind of conversion to transmute our existing staff into a ring (think of all those 10x death-flaring rotflaring sigil suritas!)?
LUXELLE
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 11:33 AM CDT
Intriguing! I would try it!
But taking up TWO ring slots seems overly harsh when Elanthians are already short on the number of fingers we have. :(
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But taking up TWO ring slots seems overly harsh when Elanthians are already short on the number of fingers we have. :(
--
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LEAFIARA
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 11:34 AM CDT
I like this a lot. Two thumbs up with no criticisms or sticking points! (Yes, I recognize a significant downside with more gold ring hassle, as someone who fogs probably twenty times a day sometimes, but I think the tradeoff is more than worth it.)
Better yet that there might be additional pure weapons in the future. Now to make plans to sell every half-decent runestaff I have! ...and possibly train Brawling on my ranger and/or bard.
Better yet that there might be additional pure weapons in the future. Now to make plans to sell every half-decent runestaff I have! ...and possibly train Brawling on my ranger and/or bard.
ALLENM20
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 11:37 AM CDT
I'd like to see two things for spell rings.
If using CAST, half the enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +25 bolt AS)
If using CHANNEL, the full enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +50 bolt AS)
I think that would be a really nice incentive for bolting characters.
If using CAST, half the enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +25 bolt AS)
If using CHANNEL, the full enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +50 bolt AS)
I think that would be a really nice incentive for bolting characters.
| As I gaze over the horizon, the wind tugs at my cloak and whispers, "Adventure" in my ear. |
| A squeaky halfling nearby asks, "Why you playing with orcs heads and troll rearends?!" |
BURTNETTJ
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 12:23 PM CDT
>>Regarding the functional ring slots - it also means gold rings can’t be worn, interfering with 225 and 130.
This is my issue as well.
This is my issue as well.
CLTIDBALL
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 04:12 PM CDT
I wonder if the two-ring-slot downside could be slightly mitigated by having these spell rings take 1 Functional and 1 Non-functional slot. You'd still be down by a proper, useful slot, but would also still have one slot open... do you use that second slot for a gold ring, or do you use it for enhancives? Would still be plenty of choice to be made.
Could also add in some sort of wrist-slot addition (hopefully non-functional, but could understand needing to be functional), since we've got a small number of those, as well. (I could see, on the roleplay side, see chains running along the back of the hand, from the rings to a bracelet.)
This is a pretty awesome idea, though, definitely!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
Could also add in some sort of wrist-slot addition (hopefully non-functional, but could understand needing to be functional), since we've got a small number of those, as well. (I could see, on the roleplay side, see chains running along the back of the hand, from the rings to a bracelet.)
This is a pretty awesome idea, though, definitely!
~Cylnthia Kythnis Ardenai
~Inquisitor of Kuon
~Rose Guardian, House Sylvanfair
LORD-STIGS
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 06:26 PM CDT
This would be a great alternative, and also give some ‘in the moment’ variation in more defensive shield/one handed or more offensive open two-handed.
SJOSEPH
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 07:24 PM CDT
>I'd like to see two things for spell rings.
>If using CAST, half the enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +25 bolt AS)
>If using CHANNEL, the full enchant value is added to your BOLT AS. (EXAMPLE: +50 enchanted spell rings add +50 bolt AS)
>I think that would be a really nice incentive for bolting characters.
That's fantastic idea, I'd prefer to see that on quarterstaves, you lose the massive defence of a rune staff but gain the enchant offence of the quarterstaff to your bolt AS so it really is a proper trade off. I'd actually like to see that as a skill for Rangers since unlike bards they don't have access to 425 to help their spell aiming.
RAGZ
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/10/2021 09:34 PM CDT
Woohoo! These spell rings are super cool thematically!
However.. they don't quite make sense mechanically for pures, I think, to require 1x training in brawling for purely defensive purposes at the opportunity cost of both ring slots and, roughly the combined cost of 2x SA & 1x MIU/AS while leaving the brawling item slot open. If they occupy the ring slots, I would expect them to require MIU/AS for their benefit (if not the exact same training requirements as runestaves). It seems like it would be more consistent for them to occupy the glove slot if they require brawling.
In their current form, they are mega appealing to all my UCS characters that are already not using runestaves. Monk, especially, would stand to gain a lot from an item like this where they could effectively further leverage their physical skills to bolster their defenses. Warpures and semis would similarly stand to gain a lot so long as they focused on UCS. It would not, however, present a compelling itemization option for my magical pures when compared against runestaves. The real mechanical edge, as I see it, is that they would enable dual open hand channeling with {most} runestaff effects intact, but the item doesn't really come into focus with the brawling and itemization requirements, in my opinion. Add to that the fact that bolt spells don't care if you have any open hands.
Which UCS-trained character of any profession would NOT want to equip this item as-is, assuming they had the open ring slots?
However.. they don't quite make sense mechanically for pures, I think, to require 1x training in brawling for purely defensive purposes at the opportunity cost of both ring slots and, roughly the combined cost of 2x SA & 1x MIU/AS while leaving the brawling item slot open. If they occupy the ring slots, I would expect them to require MIU/AS for their benefit (if not the exact same training requirements as runestaves). It seems like it would be more consistent for them to occupy the glove slot if they require brawling.
In their current form, they are mega appealing to all my UCS characters that are already not using runestaves. Monk, especially, would stand to gain a lot from an item like this where they could effectively further leverage their physical skills to bolster their defenses. Warpures and semis would similarly stand to gain a lot so long as they focused on UCS. It would not, however, present a compelling itemization option for my magical pures when compared against runestaves. The real mechanical edge, as I see it, is that they would enable dual open hand channeling with {most} runestaff effects intact, but the item doesn't really come into focus with the brawling and itemization requirements, in my opinion. Add to that the fact that bolt spells don't care if you have any open hands.
Which UCS-trained character of any profession would NOT want to equip this item as-is, assuming they had the open ring slots?
NENMOONIA
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/11/2021 05:48 AM CDT
Love the idea and concept. Alternatives to runestaves are quite lacking.
Execution wise however, I question the brawling training. Requiring pures to train brawling (which most of them aren't going to do while leveling) and maybe shield/etc due to the loss of the higher runestaff DS, parry, and lower magic skills seem excessive.
Since squares and semi's can 2x weapons to get their parry DS, what if there's a compromise where the skill is MIU/2 + brawling. So at max training, its comparable to 2x weapon training?
Execution wise however, I question the brawling training. Requiring pures to train brawling (which most of them aren't going to do while leveling) and maybe shield/etc due to the loss of the higher runestaff DS, parry, and lower magic skills seem excessive.
Since squares and semi's can 2x weapons to get their parry DS, what if there's a compromise where the skill is MIU/2 + brawling. So at max training, its comparable to 2x weapon training?
GHOSTRAVER
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/11/2021 11:38 AM CDT
>> Love the idea and concept. Alternatives to runestaves are quite lacking.
>> Execution wise however, I question the brawling training. Requiring pures to train brawling (which most of them aren't going to do while leveling) and maybe shield/etc due to the loss of the higher runestaff DS, parry, and lower magic skills seem excessive.
Agree with this completely.
>> Execution wise however, I question the brawling training. Requiring pures to train brawling (which most of them aren't going to do while leveling) and maybe shield/etc due to the loss of the higher runestaff DS, parry, and lower magic skills seem excessive.
Agree with this completely.
CAMPBELLS
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/11/2021 01:55 PM CDT
On my level 89 wizard I could single harness power instead of doubling and put those training points into brawling. Any thoughts into what that would look like?
Ashrynn's player
Ashrynn's player
BIGDOG2178
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 12:45 AM CDT
Personally I love this for Ranger Druids
KRAKII
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 06:27 AM CDT
I think the Bards/Rangers/Paladins/Monks will love this to tears, and the actual spellcasters be only so-so on it.
No parry (of weapons), losing parry (of bolt/ball spells), coughing up a functional slot, and having to buy expensive Brawling skill?
Yeah, no.
No parry (of weapons), losing parry (of bolt/ball spells), coughing up a functional slot, and having to buy expensive Brawling skill?
Yeah, no.
TRINITIS2
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 10:40 AM CDT
Brawling does seem like an odd choice for this. It's not like the caster is going to be punching things with their ring. It'd be more like they hold up their ring of powerful awesomeness and a wave of force deflects the blow (in the case of parry DS). I'd seem more in line to make it use MIU to factor in your parry DS. Maybe no more then 2x per level, or if that is too cheap, make it MIU / 2.
KARDIOS
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 01:17 PM CDT
For purposes of enchanting and flares, are two spell rings one item or two items? For example, could I have a 5x ring and a 6x ring for a total 11x defense? Or could I have two 7x acuity rings for a total of 14x acuity?
ROBLAR
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 01:58 PM CDT
Questions to ask soon as you get four functional ring slots..
WEYR1
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
07/12/2021 03:59 PM CDT
"Personally I love this for Ranger Druids "
I actually wonder how popular these will be for ranger druids or other semi's who don't already train in brawling. Recall most spells like spike thorn don't give a bonus for open handed casting.
LORD-STIGS
Re: Spell Rings: An alternative weapon choice for pures
06/15/2022 12:43 PM CDT
This is still a great idea for an item. Hope it becomes a reality at a festival or auction one day. Keep the good ideas coming and thanks for all the work!
