Based on the discussion in the prior thread around the effectiveness of additional Shield Use training, this seems like an incredibly pricey shield maneuver for relatively little benefit.
I'll be dropping this skill to go toward my new Shield Charge training but am wondering if a NIR can chime in to help clarify what the benefit of an additional 30 ranks of defensive Shield Use actually does for 24 points (specifically at cap). On the surface it sounds like a huge benefit (without any understanding of the underlying mechanics) but in practice it seems like this adds a few points of DS and at most a 1-2% increase in block skill (at cap).
>shield help forward
Skill Name: Shield Forward
Mnemonic: forward
Hostile: No
Stamina Cost: None
Other Requirements: None
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
Shield Point Cost:
Rank 1: 4
Rank 2: 8
Rank 3: 12
Description: Your shield is up and ready to protect you.
Mechanics: For 15 seconds after using an offensive shield attack, you gain a +10 per rank enhancive bonus to Shield Use ranks for defensive purposes.
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
PEREGRINEFALCON
KRAKII
Re: Shield Forward
09/22/2020 12:48 PM CDT
"For 15 seconds after using an offensive shield attack, you gain a +10 per rank enhancive bonus to Shield Use ranks for defensive purposes." -- Other-Robert
Since this is from a game mechanic... is it in addition to any other Shield Use from Enhancive items you might be wearing?
Or do you have to not-get Shield Use ranks from your Enhancive items beyond the first +20, and just get the last +30 from using Forward-triggering attacks often enough?
Do the bonuses show up in 'skill', the same way the NerveStaff ranks of CM do?
Since this is from a game mechanic... is it in addition to any other Shield Use from Enhancive items you might be wearing?
Or do you have to not-get Shield Use ranks from your Enhancive items beyond the first +20, and just get the last +30 from using Forward-triggering attacks often enough?
Do the bonuses show up in 'skill', the same way the NerveStaff ranks of CM do?
ARCHIGEEK
Re: Shield Forward
09/22/2020 01:06 PM CDT
It's kind of interesting if you use a lot of offensive shield maneuvers, but even then, 15 seconds just gets you through the fight with that one critter you used the maneuver on and that's about it. As for the "what does this mean" part of the question, I think but am not certain that for shield use, it would mean an extra 30% of your base shield bonus to DS. That number used to be a bit more complex, but I think these days that's just straight up enchant plus base 20. So if you had a 6x shield, you'd get 30% of 50 for 15 seconds, or an extra 15DS. This one seems specialized for someone who uses shield maneuvers a lot, otherwise I'd probably pick up a couple of ranks of it.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Shield Forward
09/22/2020 01:15 PM CDT
>> >>"For 15 seconds after using an offensive shield attack, you gain a +10 per rank enhancive bonus to Shield Use ranks for defensive purposes." -- Other-Robert
>> Since this is from a game mechanic... is it in addition to any other Shield Use from Enhancive items you might be wearing?
Yes, it is additive.
>> Or do you have to not-get Shield Use ranks from your Enhancive items beyond the first +20, and just get the last +30 from using Forward-triggering attacks often enough?
I don't have more than 20 points in Shield Use enhancives to test this but give it says you gain "+10 per rank enhancive bonus" I would expect you would be capped at the standard enhancive limit.
>> Do the bonuses show up in 'skill', the same way the NerveStaff ranks of CM do?
Yes. See below.
Before bashing some critter.
>skill
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 300 200
Shield Use.........................| 313 213
Within 15 seconds of bashing some critter.
>skill
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 300 200
Shield Use.........................| 343 243
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
>> Since this is from a game mechanic... is it in addition to any other Shield Use from Enhancive items you might be wearing?
Yes, it is additive.
>> Or do you have to not-get Shield Use ranks from your Enhancive items beyond the first +20, and just get the last +30 from using Forward-triggering attacks often enough?
I don't have more than 20 points in Shield Use enhancives to test this but give it says you gain "+10 per rank enhancive bonus" I would expect you would be capped at the standard enhancive limit.
>> Do the bonuses show up in 'skill', the same way the NerveStaff ranks of CM do?
Yes. See below.
Before bashing some critter.
>skill
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 300 200
Shield Use.........................| 313 213
Within 15 seconds of bashing some critter.
>skill
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 300 200
Shield Use.........................| 343 243
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Shield Forward
09/22/2020 01:27 PM CDT
>> As for the "what does this mean" part of the question, I think but am not certain that for shield use, it would mean an extra 30% of your base shield bonus to DS.
Here was my calculation on this for the additional 30 Ranks of Shield use:
From the Wiki on Block: Block DS (Melee) = [(Base Value × Size Modifier × Stance Modifier) / 1.5] + 20 (Shield Bonus) + Enchant Bonus
https://gswiki.play.net/Block
So the portion related to the addition 30 Shield Use points (with a tower shield in stance offensive, the only stance where this would really matter I think) would calculate out as follows:
(30 * 1.3 * 0.5) / 1.5 = 13 additional DS.
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
Here was my calculation on this for the additional 30 Ranks of Shield use:
From the Wiki on Block: Block DS (Melee) = [(Base Value × Size Modifier × Stance Modifier) / 1.5] + 20 (Shield Bonus) + Enchant Bonus
https://gswiki.play.net/Block
So the portion related to the addition 30 Shield Use points (with a tower shield in stance offensive, the only stance where this would really matter I think) would calculate out as follows:
(30 * 1.3 * 0.5) / 1.5 = 13 additional DS.
-- Robert
>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.
