I'm hoping someone might be willing to answer some questions surrounding the lore behind this really cool suite of abilities.
The following is the messaging I get when summoning an icy broadsword.
Your knowledge of weaponsmithing improves the pattern you are attempting to summon.
Closing your eyes, you grunt briefly in effort as you sense a small aqueous ethereal fissure open in front of you. Thrusting your hand through, you draw out an icy broadsword. As you open your eyes, the fissure closes.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
So, the steps as I can see them are 1) He opens a small aqueous ethereal fissure 2) He reaches down in there and 3) He pulls out an icy broadsword.
This raises so many questions for me!
1. The messaging implies opening and maintaining the fissure takes some effort on his part. What does that effort entail? Is it difficult like pushing a rock up a hill, or difficult like solving simultaneous n-dimensional equations in your head to arrive at a vector? Is it solving the equations and THEN pushing the rock along the vector? I would love to know as much as you would be willing to share about what my character might understand himself to be doing when he opens the fissure.
1.a The fissure is apparantly big enough to reach into and draw out, at maximum, a polearm. Is the size of the fissure limited by the technique my character uses to summon weapons, or is he just not creating an opening bigger than what he needs? What is theoretically the biggest fissure he could open this way and what would he understand is the limiting factor?
2. Where exactly does the fissure go and does my character understand that? The fissure calls back to the Ethreal Fissure spell and the obvious conclusion to draw is that he's opening a small fissure to one of the planes (in this case Water, but the ability itself is Earth aligned?). However, he then *reaches his hand in*, which seems like it would be a bad idea if that were directly the case. Clearly it does work and he doesn't (apparantly) feel any aprehension about doing it, so what does he know about the space he's reaching into and why it's safe?
3. Pulling a sword out...how does he understand that to work? Other messaging (below) implies he exerts his will and reshapes the material. Obviously that doesn't work with things native to the Plane of Abiding so what substance is he working with and how does he understand himself to be shaping it?
Your knowledge of weaponsmithing improves the pattern you are attempting to summon.
You reach out with your will and reshape your broadsword into a javelin.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
4. Is there a reason that my character makes the effort to open another fissure to shave off a little material, rather than just letting it fall to the ground?
Closing your eyes, you grunt briefly in effort as you sense a small aqueous ethereal fissure open in front of you. Holding your icy broadsword out, you push excess material off your broadsword, and into the fissure. As you open your eyes, the fissure closes.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
I love these abilities and use them all the time, and I would be really pumped to know more of the lore so I can add that flavor to my RP.
Mazrian
JULIAN
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Lore questions about summoned weapons.
04/07/2020 11:09 AM CDT
>>1. The messaging implies opening and maintaining the fissure takes some effort on his part. What does that effort entail? Is it difficult like pushing a rock up a hill, or difficult like solving simultaneous n-dimensional equations in your head to arrive at a vector? Is it solving the equations and THEN pushing the rock along the vector? I would love to know as much as you would be willing to share about what my character might understand himself to be doing when he opens the fissure.
It's mental effort, though more like summoning up a burst of willpower than doing complex math.
>>1.a The fissure is apparantly big enough to reach into and draw out, at maximum, a polearm. Is the size of the fissure limited by the technique my character uses to summon weapons, or is he just not creating an opening bigger than what he needs? What is theoretically the biggest fissure he could open this way and what would he understand is the limiting factor?
>>2. Where exactly does the fissure go and does my character understand that?
So, the fissure described in this ability doesn't fit my general idea of how fissures into the Elemental Planes work (which would make sticking your hand into it a Very Bad Idea). That said, I'm not sure how I'd align the two off hand and need time to think on it.
>>3. Pulling a sword out...how does he understand that to work? Other messaging (below) implies he exerts his will and reshapes the material. Obviously that doesn't work with things native to the Plane of Abiding so what substance is he working with and how does he understand himself to be shaping it?
He's shaping it through visualization and willpower, though the extent through which he can do so is limited by the knowledge represented by the crafting feats and metaspells that feed into it.
>>4. Is there a reason that my character makes the effort to open another fissure to shave off a little material, rather than just letting it fall to the ground?
Give a hoot, don't pollute.
No reason that I'm aware of, other than just a way to explain why you don't produce mounds of debris doing so.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
It's mental effort, though more like summoning up a burst of willpower than doing complex math.
>>1.a The fissure is apparantly big enough to reach into and draw out, at maximum, a polearm. Is the size of the fissure limited by the technique my character uses to summon weapons, or is he just not creating an opening bigger than what he needs? What is theoretically the biggest fissure he could open this way and what would he understand is the limiting factor?
>>2. Where exactly does the fissure go and does my character understand that?
So, the fissure described in this ability doesn't fit my general idea of how fissures into the Elemental Planes work (which would make sticking your hand into it a Very Bad Idea). That said, I'm not sure how I'd align the two off hand and need time to think on it.
>>3. Pulling a sword out...how does he understand that to work? Other messaging (below) implies he exerts his will and reshapes the material. Obviously that doesn't work with things native to the Plane of Abiding so what substance is he working with and how does he understand himself to be shaping it?
He's shaping it through visualization and willpower, though the extent through which he can do so is limited by the knowledge represented by the crafting feats and metaspells that feed into it.
>>4. Is there a reason that my character makes the effort to open another fissure to shave off a little material, rather than just letting it fall to the ground?
Give a hoot, don't pollute.
No reason that I'm aware of, other than just a way to explain why you don't produce mounds of debris doing so.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
BADGOPHER
Re: Lore questions about summoned weapons.
04/07/2020 05:50 PM CDT
>So, the fissure described in this ability doesn't fit my general idea of how fissures into the Elemental Planes work (which would make sticking your hand into it a Very Bad Idea).
I've always imagined it to be opening a specific fissure which encapsulates your hand like a sandwich baggie while you maraud through the elemental planes.
Or as a membrane/mucosal coating of elemental/prime-material/willpower.
I've always imagined it to be opening a specific fissure which encapsulates your hand like a sandwich baggie while you maraud through the elemental planes.
Or as a membrane/mucosal coating of elemental/prime-material/willpower.
JULIAN
Re: Lore questions about summoned weapons.
04/11/2020 12:18 PM CDT
Thanks, Armifer!
Here are some more questions that occur, leaving aside the ones about "what are we even doing when we do this?"
1. Is the material we're working with raw material from an elemental plane, as far as our characters know?
2. What accounts for its malleability (it responds to a combination of applied will and elemental charge) compared to matter from the Plane of Abiding (doesn't respond to those things...or does it?)? Is it the lack of a substructure of aether holding things in shape that allows it to be shaped and makes it unstable when the WM isn't investing something in maintaining it? If all that is the case, is the WM doing something like generating a field using Elemental Charge to take the place of aether in maintaining the shape of the weapon?
3. What is the WM doing to maintain the weapon, if anything? The WM has to exert some effort and Elemental Charge to manipulate the shape and characteristics of the weapon, but the weapon will exist indefinitely with no upkeep until the WM breaks it or it leaves the WM's person. It also persists if the WM is stunned or otherwise incapacitated. All that implies that whatever technique the WM is using is at least locally stable and self-sustaining. The messaging given when using the BREAK command seems to back that up.
>>break broad
Focusing your will, you rip the icy broadsword asunder, returning it to the Elemental planes.<<
The above implies it's an actual effort to undo whatever arrangement is keeping the weapon together. So how does that all work?
4. How do weapons summoned to do fire, ice, or electricity damage work? An ice sword is pretty easy to explain because ice is a physical thing that, other than not melting, behaves more or less as expected of ice (It's cold, it's got mass, if it hits you it hurts because cold and massive). But the behavior of fiery and electric weapons seem harder to explain because neither of those things has mass. So what gives them mass? Or do I literally have 40 stones of electricity bottled up in my sword somehow?
5. Shaping a summoned weapon to be of a different elemental type is a little weird when you think about it.
Your knowledge of weaponsmithing improves the pattern you are attempting to summon.
Closing your eyes, you grunt briefly in effort as you sense a small aqueous ethereal fissure open in front of you. Thrusting your hand through, you draw out an icy broadsword. As you open your eyes, the fissure closes.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
The messaging shows the WM summoning an elemental-type weapon through the corresponding type of fissure. Implying that you're making your ice sword from elemental water you got from the Plane of Water, your fire sword from elemental fire you got from the Plane of Fire, etc.
But the messaging you get from shaping a weapon you've already summoned to be of a different elemental type is just:
You reach out with your will and reshape your broadsword into an icy broadsword.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Which implies the WM is taking elemental rock and turning it into elemental water, in this instance. Which, as far as I understand it in terms of how the elements work, is pretty wild. So what is going on here, at least as far as our characters would understand it?
I think DR being a game in which there are no black boxes makes all of this incredibly interesting, IMO. I also realize it's possible that the lore behind all of this hasn't all been mapped out. So I guess these posts are both a request for information and also, hopefully, food for thought!
Mazrian
Here are some more questions that occur, leaving aside the ones about "what are we even doing when we do this?"
1. Is the material we're working with raw material from an elemental plane, as far as our characters know?
2. What accounts for its malleability (it responds to a combination of applied will and elemental charge) compared to matter from the Plane of Abiding (doesn't respond to those things...or does it?)? Is it the lack of a substructure of aether holding things in shape that allows it to be shaped and makes it unstable when the WM isn't investing something in maintaining it? If all that is the case, is the WM doing something like generating a field using Elemental Charge to take the place of aether in maintaining the shape of the weapon?
3. What is the WM doing to maintain the weapon, if anything? The WM has to exert some effort and Elemental Charge to manipulate the shape and characteristics of the weapon, but the weapon will exist indefinitely with no upkeep until the WM breaks it or it leaves the WM's person. It also persists if the WM is stunned or otherwise incapacitated. All that implies that whatever technique the WM is using is at least locally stable and self-sustaining. The messaging given when using the BREAK command seems to back that up.
>>break broad
Focusing your will, you rip the icy broadsword asunder, returning it to the Elemental planes.<<
The above implies it's an actual effort to undo whatever arrangement is keeping the weapon together. So how does that all work?
4. How do weapons summoned to do fire, ice, or electricity damage work? An ice sword is pretty easy to explain because ice is a physical thing that, other than not melting, behaves more or less as expected of ice (It's cold, it's got mass, if it hits you it hurts because cold and massive). But the behavior of fiery and electric weapons seem harder to explain because neither of those things has mass. So what gives them mass? Or do I literally have 40 stones of electricity bottled up in my sword somehow?
5. Shaping a summoned weapon to be of a different elemental type is a little weird when you think about it.
Your knowledge of weaponsmithing improves the pattern you are attempting to summon.
Closing your eyes, you grunt briefly in effort as you sense a small aqueous ethereal fissure open in front of you. Thrusting your hand through, you draw out an icy broadsword. As you open your eyes, the fissure closes.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
The messaging shows the WM summoning an elemental-type weapon through the corresponding type of fissure. Implying that you're making your ice sword from elemental water you got from the Plane of Water, your fire sword from elemental fire you got from the Plane of Fire, etc.
But the messaging you get from shaping a weapon you've already summoned to be of a different elemental type is just:
You reach out with your will and reshape your broadsword into an icy broadsword.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
Which implies the WM is taking elemental rock and turning it into elemental water, in this instance. Which, as far as I understand it in terms of how the elements work, is pretty wild. So what is going on here, at least as far as our characters would understand it?
I think DR being a game in which there are no black boxes makes all of this incredibly interesting, IMO. I also realize it's possible that the lore behind all of this hasn't all been mapped out. So I guess these posts are both a request for information and also, hopefully, food for thought!
Mazrian
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Lore questions about summoned weapons.
04/11/2020 02:36 PM CDT
>>1. Is the material we're working with raw material from an elemental plane, as far as our characters know?
Sort of. The Elemental Planes (minus Electricity, which is weird for reasons most Warrior Mages do not understand) are not places with material to plunder so much as they are singularities. The Plane of Fire is nothing more and nothing less than the platonic ideal of Fire. There's no space, no ground, no horizon, no time. Everything is Fire.
So you're not really grabbing a piece of ice from the Elemental Plane of Water as much as you are summoning a concept and empowering it with the very notion of Water.
The rest I'll food-for-thought about for now.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Sort of. The Elemental Planes (minus Electricity, which is weird for reasons most Warrior Mages do not understand) are not places with material to plunder so much as they are singularities. The Plane of Fire is nothing more and nothing less than the platonic ideal of Fire. There's no space, no ground, no horizon, no time. Everything is Fire.
So you're not really grabbing a piece of ice from the Elemental Plane of Water as much as you are summoning a concept and empowering it with the very notion of Water.
The rest I'll food-for-thought about for now.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
ASHBOMB
Re: Lore questions about summoned weapons.
04/19/2020 06:39 PM CDT
>>Sort of. The Elemental Planes (minus Electricity, which is weird for reasons most Warrior Mages do not understand) are not places with material to plunder so much as they are singularities. The Plane of Fire is nothing more and nothing less than the platonic ideal of Fire. There's no space, no ground, no horizon, no time. Everything is Fire.
This feels like a missed opportunity for a development direction in explorable areas.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
This feels like a missed opportunity for a development direction in explorable areas.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
