An enchantment put on a weapon that would allow one to parry spells a certain number of times per day would be just plain awesome.

You gesture at Kahvan.
Kahvan braces his left hand against the blade of his sword and thrusts it forward!
A large ball of flame flies toward Kahvan!

The fireball smacks into Kahvan's bone-hilted broadsword and explodes into two jets of flame which bypass him completely.

::drool::

I understand your reasoning for this but i have to disagree. The ability to wield a weapon effectively has no basis what so ever on your knowlage on carving out runes and focusing magic. weapon skil has no basis on magical ability

I can somewhat understand the forging system using your weapon still because you need to know what a good weapon is, but even then mechlore should really be the deciding factor.

As far as enchanting goes. i can see no reason what so ever that your weapon still would effect your ability to enchant, and honestly i don't think it should. Making it work that way would only give older players a easier time learning and performing enchantments. No one is being grandfathered through, which is think it the only right way to do this.




"The hand is quicker then the eye. But you should of been watching the foot."

<< i can see no reason what so ever that your weapon still would effect your ability to enchant, and honestly i don't think it should.

I have to disagree here somewhat.
I'm not an enchanting officionado, because untill Val says 'Here, it's done, this is what it is, this is how it works, this is how you do it.' I don't think everything (if many things) are set in stone just yet. I could be mistaken. At any rate, I'm not expecting to be an expert on the subject untill he tells us this.

The basis for my argu ... em, idea, is that, if we're PHYSICALLY affecting a weapon, in any way, shape, or form, by affixing runes ..... carving runes into the weapon in any place, we have to know the basic characteristics behind the blade, (head for blunts). I don't think we should need know near as much as what it takes to pound out the weapon, that's just insane, but 50 ranks, isn't that awefully hard, either. (25 would be easier)

Promising novice is 20 ranks, trained novice is 30 ranks, and beginning practitioner is 50 ranks.

Do I really want to give MY weapon? My potential pride and joy to some nitwit that doesn't know ANYTHING about the weapon, save possibly .... this end points out.... to .... tinker? with my weapon?
Granted, requiring to be a full expert in any weapon skill to be able to manipulate it is over kill, as well. But how are you going to understand the intricacies of the weapons, if you've never gone out and swung one a few times?

<< Making it work that way would only give older players a easier time learning and performing enchantments.

My 15 points trump on all your physical and mental stats (roughly guestimating) thus being able to learn a little faster then you, says I have an advantage no matter what. Just like Beliels' 15, 20 points trump on all my physical, and mental stats (again, roughly guestimating, and more for making the point, rather then being accurate in his TDP development over the years) gives him a decisive advantage at doing these activities.

I doubt ye'll see many people under 50th circle making high end enchantments, jus like moonatics need be probably 60+ circle, barbabarians need be 60+ circle, and rangers need be 60+ circles to really be effective in their trade arts. That's not to say a 50th level person of these professions can not make the items their guilds specialize in, but they're not going to make high quality items either. Unless they're seriously circle deficcient for their skills, of course

__________________________________
Crazy? I was crazy once,
They put me in a li'l white room with cushy walls.
It was cold there, and I died, so they buried me,
There were worms, I hate worms
They ate into my brain and drove me crazy!
crazy?...

especially considering most of them are wasting slots on spells that aren't syphon or mend.


The Opinions, Suggestions, or Desires in the previous post should have no baring on your Role Play, as they are not presented by Simutronics Staff.
Any actual material would have an In game location to be found.

<<it was stated that the skills would be either 50th or 70th circle area>>

Valdrick said 50th.

<<it would take an unusual player to get those kind of skills without also having worked the circle-required skills up there, as well.>>

The reason I said there will not be any enchanters before 50th circle (Reread my preveious post) is the simple fact they have no access to the ability that lets them enchant regardless of skill levels.


Rigek

"Heh I never really liked him anyway...he wasn't right in the head..."

>>The reason I said there will not be any enchanters before 50th circle (Reread my preveious post) is the simple fact they have no access to the ability that lets them enchant regardless of skill levels.

What ability?

Only thing I can think of would be if Syphon has 50th circle as part of is requirements, but that would be up to Valdrik.

And the Elemental Attunement ability sounded to me, at least from what Valdrik was saying at SimuCon, as something that would be open to a Warrior Mage of any circle, but that higher Elemental Arcana skill (and maybe stats) would improve the user's ability to change their current attunement more quickly.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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Kynevon's DR Links Page: http://kynevon.info
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"We're not lost. We're just geographically confused." Brian, KoDT

>>>>What ability?

>>Pattern Sight.

My notes from SimuCon just mention it as part of the Elemental Attunement ability, nothing more. Anyone have any more information to share on it?

~Kyn (Kynevon)

---

Kynevon's DR Links Page: http://kynevon.info
Mac OS X FE: http://www.play.net/software/warlock-info.asp
Amagaim's What to Hunt list: http://kynevon.info/What2Hunt.xls
"We're not lost. We're just geographically confused." Brian, KoDT

>>Pattern Sight

50th circle ability
It lets a warmage see the runes/sigils that make up a spell from any guild and use the to enchant an ability into a weapon. Most spells will have at least a couple.

Examples: (These are only examples not GM stated)

Fire shard might have a targeted rune and a fire rune using just these to enchant and you might be able to make your weapon shoot fire.

MOF might have a lighting rune and a force projection rune using former might give you a glowing weapon to light the darker hunting grounds, the latter coulg give you that massive flaming two-handed sword you all know you want.

Plus we will have access to most if not all other guilds spell runes just by watching them prep, like giving a sword a targeted rune, the immobilization rune (from ranger web spell) and the fire rune (moonie burn)
you might be able to shoot a sticky flaming web that would hold them and incinerate them...

If anyone wants I can repost the siminar notes on all of this.

Rigek

"Heh I never really liked him anyway...he wasn't right in the head..."

I think that if enchantment does ever come out, it's pretty obvious that it will include extra damage based on the particular element used. Adding to-hit or an accuracy bonus based on TM might be a little much unless the bonus is fairly small, in my opinion.

Vinjince

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"There are five possible operations for any army. If you can fight, fight; if you cannot fight, defend; if you cannot defend, flee; if you cannot flee, surrender; if you cannot surrender, die."

- Sima Yi

>The highest is Opieus at 26th circle. I hope he's able to do at least some basic form of enchanting when it comes out.

I wouldn't count on it. At that circle moon mages can't really make anything.

Maybe it will take a really long time to enchant some small piece of something which will be used in more complex enchantments, thus you could make some deal to trade/sell those pieces to other mages so they do not have to waste time making the little things.

For the sentient weapons that the GM's mentioned could be possible, it would be great if a forged weapon in the same room as it's maker would start talking to him.

You see a matte black bastard sword flash suddenly and cry out "Oh wow! I finnaly get to meet my maker! Hello, Joeforger!"


Rigek

>It could work for WM enchanting, but for a lot of other things as well. For example what if lower level Warrior Mages could harvest components for Kort and Belradi potions? Or if lower level Moon Mages could create ju'ladan oil? If done right, I think this concept could do wonders for getting characters of all ages involved in creation systems and do something to soothe the feeling of "I can't do anything useful until I have 200 in mech lore."

It is an interesting idea. Now that I'm able to cap moon mage enchanting I'm not to keen on needing extra steps to hire out to people, but when I was lower circle I always wished I could do something useful.

>>I think this is a horrible idea. Mostly because this wouldn't make me feel useful in anyway. A higher level person could make it easier and cheaper.

Who said higher levels can do it easier and cheaper? Consider tanning leather. To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't matter how good you are at mech or leather armor, it will take the same amount of time to tan leather. I think you missed the point of my post. The idea is that low and high skill levels can make it, both to the same effectiveness, taking both the same amount of time. But because it takes time to do, time that a high-level player could spend doing something with higher pay-off, they might be more inclined to find a low-level supplier who is willing to do it for them, and pay them or apprentice them in exchange for the service.

If you don't think being able to participate, train, and be paid for your part in the enchanting system at a lower level isn't good enough, then I think you'll be wholly disappointed no matter what they come up with. Can you make the be-all end-all enchantment with this proposition? no. But you can still market your skill.

>>If you're going to throw lower level characters a bone, let them actually make something that is useful but not terribly powerful. Like the enchanting equivalent of forging a carving knife.

I don't see how this is any different from what I was saying. Disregarding the negligible potential of using a carving knife in battle, they are useless except as tools for making higher-end products -- products that require higher skills to make. Now a carving knife is store-bought and therefore the point is moot, but let's say instead of a carving knife it's a bja'jeorijbj'yt knife, which is just like a carving knife except that it has magical properties that are required for use in WM enchanting. Now you can make something that is useful to all enchanters regardless of level. Now pretend that these knives are super brittle and break every one or two uses (just for the purpose of this discussion), now you can make something that is useful to all enchanters, is expendable, and therefore is in constant demand. Finally, let's pretend it takes you 30 minutes to make one, or they can only be made in a certain place, or something else limiting... now you can make something that's in constant demand by all enchanters that has specific enough requirements that some high-end enchanters may be more willing to buy some than to make their own.

>>I would personally feel insulted if someone asked me to do the menial work on their enchanting project. It would not make me feel useful, it would just be insulting. I would much rather make something that is useful, even if it's only useful to me, that isn't terribly powerful, than make something that is useful only to someone else who could easily make it themselves.

Why not have both? The suggestion I was referring to (and have kinda run with, sorry if I twisted the original intent of the idea) would give those who wanted it a way to offer a service to others for any number of valid reasons:
* Make some money
* Apprentice themselves to a higher level
* Be part of the bigger process

Let me put it to you another way: I can, but will never make tinctures because it's too time consuming. However I would buy them from somebody else. I don't think it's demeaning or insulting to say so.

None of what I'm talking about is mutually exclusive to also having low-level enchantments that nobody will want except you. But when I play a MMORPG I like to feel like I have a place in the virtual society. I do enough solo grinding, I'd appreciate the opportunity to offer a service to others even at low ranks.

---

What happens in Qi, stays in Qi.

Last I heard, part of the planned Lore/Creation system update was to have items that can be created at lower skill levels, that would likely be left to the younger/less skilled characters because they would not teach skill to the high-end types, but that would be component pieces/source items for higher-end items.

No reason why that same concept couldn't work for enchantment systems as well as creation systems.

Maybe some of the easier constellation scrolls used in MM enchanting when that constellation is down, for example? Not required, but a useful item...

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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>Who said higher levels can do it easier and cheaper?

If it's the exact same ease for a 10th level character to make as a 100th level character, the 100th level character can make it and save money by not paying the 10th level character, plus they don't have to look for a 10th level character. Easier and cheapier.

>If you don't think being able to participate, train, and be paid for your part in the enchanting system at a lower level isn't good enough

Again, why would someone pay a lower level character for something they can do just as easily? Because they're lazy and don't want to do it themselves? Okay, that makes sense. But suggesting that they add a step solely so lower level characters might get paid to do it is silly.

>Disregarding the negligible potential of using a carving knife in battle

Carving knives are used for other things besides combat. Wood carving, skinning, talisman carving.

>Now you can make something that is useful to all enchanters regardless of level.

Again, why make a step that's tedious and annoying just so young mages can be paid my old mages who are lazy?

>Why not have both?

You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Creating something that is only useful to the small number of high level Warrior Mage enchanters is not what I see as being useful. They can make it themselves at least as easily as it can be made for them. If the item had some use on it's own outside of enchanting, that would be a different story. For example I'll use my original suggestion, let's say that all weapons that are going to be enchanted have to be processed to be guided by a targeting pattern. In more advanced enchantments, the targeted pattern is used to target the magic. Without any advanced enchantments, the targeted pattern simply directs the weapon adding a small bonus to hit if the user succeeds at the TM check. Useful for older mages, but still useful on its own.

>And guess what, if you give low level WMs useless fluff enchantments people will complain too...

Thus I said useful but not very powerful.

>but that would be component pieces/source items for higher-end items.

That isn't the impression I got. The impression I got was that younger characters would be making items that no longer teach higher level characters. Simple patterns like a carving knife at low levels, a jambiya at medium levels, and a katar at higher levels. Or rapier, sabre, iltesh. Or gloves, greaves, hauberk. Or arrow, bow, forester's bow. A progression of making something that is independently useful, not making something that is useful only to be added onto by a higher level character.

>It's along the same concept of how the lvl 15s can make crazy money selling something like a stack of feathers to the lvl 70 guys

Not really. The person farming feathers isn't doing anything except their normal hunting. They are not involved in any part of the process except gathering of raw materials.


It just irks me that people want to keep low level characters completely out of the fun systems, except to do menial tasks. Menial tasks aren't fun, and not everybody feels like power leveling for six months (or more) so they can start having fun with the cool systems. Remember, this is a game. People play it to have fun, not do menial crap to benefit someone else. Most of us do that in our real lives and come here to escape it for a little while.


Elemancer Opieus, Journeyman Warrior Mage of Elanthia
>Aren't I pretty, now fall down on my ice, fool! ~ Axillus

>>Not really. The person farming feathers isn't doing anything except their normal hunting. They are not involved in any part of the process except gathering of raw materials.

You won't be doing anything except your normal smithing/creation training. Raw material are part of the process of creating...anything.

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a black panther comes flying into view! it hits the ground, bouncing once before sliding to a stop.
A black panther is stunned!

Hope Im not too late chiming in here. Me personally, as a WM, I work for experienced smiths. Only one at the moment, but I've been talking to a second about starting work with them. I get paid a set price per mix. Under the current system, this nets me no in-game experience. But you know what, I enjoy playing in the forge, and now I get paid to do what I used to do anyhow. Also, I get to use a more hands-on learning approach rather than just reading some notepads, and talking to a smith here and there to answer a couple questions. So, I get player experience/knowledge, a little coin, and not much else. The experienced smiths could just as easily make the stuff they pay me to make, but it saves them time (a lot in some cases) at a minor increase in material price. Its a win/win situation as far as I can tell.

I also get to choose my own schedule. I can play in the forge for 1-2 days a week and grind the rest of the week, or I can spend 2 weeks straight in the forge and stockpile mixes, then go grind for however long I want until I run out of mixes. You may find it useless, tedious, boring, and trivial. I find it enjoyable, and I get paid to do what I enjoy. YMMV.

-Master Ndin

naptha, by the barrel.
it might not be enchantment, but make some mundane ingredients turn into naptha with a little mana energy in it. Sod, fermented grass, whatever.


Warmies should have access to gallons of it. It should be exploding in our backpacks and in our faces when we try to make it.

>>Sounds like moonshine. :-P

How about alchemical creation of napalm? Mix up some naphtha, kerosene, sulphur, maybe some other ingredients. ;)

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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