Guys...and gals...

You need to learn a little posting savvy. Seriously. Double for WEILM and JUASON.

Just stop responding directly to RX4PAIN. Watching you flail away in response to his juvenile trolling is physically painful for me. It's like watching retards slap-fighting eachother.

Have you not been paying attention? RX4PAIN will never agree with you, never concede that you may have a point, and never attempt to understand your posts on their merits. He's trolling, not debating.

He's not even doing it very well.

You make yourselves sound stupid by addressing him as though he had something to contribute.

You are demeaning yourselves. It saddens me. Just stop posting, please.

Sometimes it's appropriate to treat a poster as a contributing member of the DR community and respond reasonably to his points. This is when the poster...

1) Is on point.

2) Is not trolling for conflict.

3) Is capable of sustaining a reasonable and interesting discussion.

In all other cases, you should reference his posts ONLY to:

1) Mock him, within board TOS.

2) Make a point of your own that is NOT a rebuttal of one of his points (trying to rebut a point that makes no sense just makes you look stupid).

Otherwise, just ignore him.

M.

<<RX4PAIN's post>>

Do I need to repeat myself for the slow kids after that?

M.

<<Im sorry you're dissapointed with being a member of the newb guild.

Care to clarify why the WM guild is a newb guild? Just curious to what your reasoning is.


Trebber

---

It is intended to be a game, and while it never made sense for me to be able to bounce across the rainbow road or whatever it was called when I played Candyland, it never stopped me from doing it and enjoying the game.

Wow... I'm glad this thread is in the conflicts folder. Both sides of this debate having mind-numbingly stupid points. 1/8 will never equal 1/3? That's as nonsensical as it is irrelevant. Just... wow.

-Wighten

YOu can't go nuts. You were already there.

And it does make since.

He insist on comparing 1/8th skill item against a 1/3rd skill item. They can't be compared in this mannor. That was the only real point.

>>He insist on comparing 1/8th skill item against a 1/3rd skill item. They can't be compared in this mannor. That was the only real point. <<

No... it still doesn't make sense. I'm sorry. First off... in what way does harness change a spells power? Allowing you to use the spell? Sure... but it doesn't go into a spell equation. PM is used to overcome BMR... but other than that, it doesn't play into the spell equation. The only difference is really mana.

LB ranks + agility & strength + how good arrows and bows are
TM ranks + agility & discipline + how good the spell is (varied by mana)

It's a lot more similar than you imply with 1/8 doesn't equal 1/3. I'm not saying TM and ranged are the same thing, but the to hit calcs are a lot more similar than you give them credit for.

-Wighten

A 1/xth skill item is a skill item that requires X adjustibles, You'll note I didn't list mana, which would make CL a 1/9th skill item vs a 1/5th skill item, because factoring mana you'd have to factor both bow quality AND arrow quality.

Using a capped bow against a min cast is like comparing a capped sabre against a CG longsword, which to say the least is a massive disparity.

CG longswords tend to be worse than the worst below store bought forged.

for the method of of testing you're using to be accurate three things need to be determined.

Is the bow capped?
Are the Arrows capped?
Is the mana capped?
Are there as many full force strikes(1 only) from the spell as there are from the bow?

To accomplish the last with a spell that does int(1/rnd)<mana Only 1 critter should be in the room during each test, thus removing the number of possible targets.

Wow. Anyone stop to consider his account name, RX4PAIN? Well, I didnt really expect "War" mages to figure it out that there is probably a direct relation between his post and his prescriptions for pain.

---

---

Digressions, objections, delight in mockery, carefree mistrust are signs of health; everything unconditional belongs in pathology.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

>>Yet, how do you separate the morons and the people trying to be helpful? So I post and try to explain my experiences.

There's a reason for GMs having to take training courses. They gotta know how to powertrain with the best of players, you know.

J'Lo, no that other one
The Manipulation List -- http://symphaena.com/index.html

>Yet, how do you separate the morons and the people trying to be helpful?

>Experience, my friend.

All-caps, long paragraphs, and lots of exclamation points are also indicative.

-Durnil

The way I train in TF is to cap out TM then stay until my defenses and weapons catch up. Works well for me but I can see how this would be extremely boring if you have to be ATK all the time


Strangeguard Prayermaster

You can tell who AFK scripts by checking Gyren's skills and his join date.

If you have more ranks or circles than Gyren, you are an AFK scripter or mechanics abuser. Luckily he is constantly on patrol to spot such offenders and bring them to justice.

I am --- Navak

CL=disc+int+reflex+agility+pm+harness+tm+MR

LB=LB+reflex+agility

1/8 >< 1/3. 1/8 WILL NEVER EQUAL 1/3. It's not mathmaticly possible
_____

CL and LB are on same mechanics, unless you mean longbow, in which case CL uses more disc and less agil, where as bow uses just agil.

i happily ignored rest of thread

Julian,

You advise others to not post and then respond 10 times. Interesting.

Margash,

I like irony.

This whole thread makes me smile.

M.

>PM affects the strength of spell, as told, the chance of multiple shots at lower mana.

yes except of course contested spells, in which case PM only helps overcome MR and channel more mana.

>>Harness affects ALL spells, in how much and what percentage of the mana put into a spell is effective

>no. only if you're using held mana

What game are you playing?

Harness affects how much you can put into ANY spell. More harness is More mana in. 1 rank of harness can NOT put 50 mana into a first tier spell, that requires even more than 173 that I have.

sure harness is easily trained with held mana and High cast spells, but it also determines how much of the mana you harness goes into a spell, why do you think the prep command includes a harness syntax? It's a small kickback/built in speed device, otherwise you'd have to Harness X, Prep X, target X, Cast.

The way it is now,

PREPARE spell /harness/

If you don't specify a harness, it NOW defaults to minimum. even 2 years ago you HAD to specify a harness or your spell wouldn't prep. (thanks magic team)

Now, if I prep frs 50 with 1 rank of harness I'll get either the not enough mana message(being as all my other skills should be 1 or 2 as well) and will severly backfire, if I manage to cast it at all.

With 150 harness I can easily get 20-30 mana into FRS with about a 90%effective transfer, meaning that my 20 mana frs is really a 17-18 mana frs.

skill	mana	effective
0-10	min	99.9
0-10	max	0.01
11-20	max	0.2
21-30	max	0.3

Which essentially means the more harness you have, the more effective the mana going in IS. Also the more harness you have, the More mana you can get into the spell, the closer to max you're going to be able to pump into the spell.

...?

SHNURUI, ya lost me.

What Primary Magic skill does: Increases the amount of mana you can put into a spell. For some spells dictates whether you are above a skill threshold to get other effects.

What Harness skill does: Increases your harnessing efficiency. Reduces the likelihood of taking nerve damage versus amount of mana being actively held.

Attunement, while no longer a visible number in-game, starts at 100 and goes up by 1 every 10 ranks of Harness skill. Above and beyond that, it improves the rate-of-transfer of attunement spent versus mana manipulated. If your harness skill is 100 and you cast a spell at 20 mana, you'll take a larger attunement hit than if your harness skill is 1000 and you cast the same spell at the same mana with the same mana levels in the area (PP). Part of this is due to your overall attunement level increasing (110 attunement max at 100 harness, 200 attunement max at 1000 harness), and part is due to increased harness skill bringing the attunement-to-mana level ratio closer to your favor for increasingly larger amounts of mana per gulp (whether harnessed, charged, or cast away).

So while harness does make your mana consumption more efficient, it does not change the effectiveness of mana. A FS prepped and cast at 20 mana will always be just that, and the only thing Harness skill will change is how much attunement you use in the process.

You seemed to be arguing that higher Harness skill allows you to cast at higher preps, and this is not the case. Furthermore, no matter what your Harness skill, if you cast, say, ES at 20 mana, and your PM skill allows for you to do that, then your 20-mana ES will always cast with the same strength of effect regardless of Harness skill. All Harness skill will change is how much attunement is disrupted in the process.
(Note that I say Harness has no impact on spell power; PM is potentially a different beast, especially with TM multi-shot spells and spells with tiered functionality.)

And if that's basically what you were saying, my apologies for the lengthy clarification, but I wouldn't want some stray forum-goer to misinterpret your post and mistake what their magic skills do... even though it would be unlikely to hurt them greatly to misunderstand, as in the normal course of magic training most will train at least PM and Harness in relative conjunction without even thinking about it.

The direct correlation between Harness skill and attunement efficiency is rather hard to nail down, however, due to available mana also having a dramatic effect on attunement disruption. PP and Harness have a fascinating, dynamic interplay that I think some mages had begun to nail down many years ago... I'm thinking Talac, or a name like that?... it's been too long.

Actually, if anyone has any of that old data lying around, I think it'd be good to re-post it, as I believe a lot of it is still fundamentally applicable. <g>


-- Reike

>.rp

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* Script [rp] not found
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shnuri pm is how much mana you can put in.

harness skill helps channeling held mana. that's it. otherwise it imrproves harnessing efficiency.

WHAT DOES HARNESS DO? Check this out. These are numbers from when harness wasn't RP messaging, but was numbers (harness pool = 100 + PM/10). THIS WAS DONE IN A ROOM WITH NO ADJACENT ROOM SO PP DIDN"T MATTER.

22 ranks harness skill
1 mana = 1 harness (1.00 efficiency)
2 mana = 3 harness (1.50 efficiency)
3 mana = 5 harness (1.66 efficiency)
4 mana = 7 harness (1.75 efficiency)
5 mana = 9 harness (1.80 efficiency)
10 mana = 20 harness (2.00 efficiency)
48 mana = 102 harness (2.13 efficiency)
63 ranks of harness skill
1 mana = 1 harness (1.00 efficiency)
2 mana = 1 harness (0.50 efficiency)
3 mana = 3 harness (1.00 efficiency)
4 mana = 5 harness (1.25 efficiency)
5 mana = 7 harness (1.40 efficiency)
10 mana = 18 harness (1.80 efficiency)
52 mana = 106 harness (2.04 efficiency)
295 ranks of harness skill
1 mana = 1 harness (1.00 efficiency)
2 mana = 1 harness (0.50 efficiency)
3 mana = 2 harness (0.66 efficiency)
4 mana = 2 harness (0.50 efficiency)
5 mana = 3 harness (0.60 efficiency)
10 mana = 8 harness (0.80 efficiency)
15 mana = 18 harness (1.20 efficiency)
20 mana = 29 harness (1.45 efficiency)
52 mana = 97 harness (1.87 efficiency)
66 mana = 126 harness (1.91 efficiency)
67 mana = 129 harness (1.93 efficiency)


UNDERSTAND?

o yeah harness skill affects how fast you regain harness pool too. this happens in discrete increments.