>>Why does a trader need magic? I'm sure you know but never playing a trader I wouldn't.

The short version is that Traders are getting magic because they're boring. That's what I got out of the whole situation, anyway.

A post was removed.

FGM Ricinus
Logistics Lead
Magic, Sentients Team Member
Cleric Advocate

Interusting.. I guess I should remind.

Constructive complaints lead to constructive discussions and change

Destructive complaints lead to a bad place.. and the mods.

If you feel the input from fellow players are wrong, don't go boom in the folder. I hate cleaning the Warmage deitrius off the walls.

If you have any questions, please email either myself (Mod-Pomae@play.net) or Senior Board Monitor (DR-Sidatura@play.net) or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl (DR-Annwyl@play.net).

>To me though that stuff is more about utility. Not really profitability.

Sigh.

WMs are lore secondary. That means 1 career, 2 hobbies. That is a substantial bonus to crafting, and you can make a ton of money crafting just by doing the work orders. Plus you're completely ignoring the 'turn on CL or FR and go afk for a week, come back to billions of plat' method (no, I'm not advocating afk scripting, that was hyperbole).

And you're completely ignoring familiars, which are a shadewatch mirror, locate, thought project, and item delivery service rolled into 1 ability which doesn't use mana, doesn't depend on moons, and is 100% persistent forever without extra investment. And they drag you away if stunned. And they increase your ability to cast spells.

This has already been covered several times in this thread. WMs don't get a button that says 'push me for X' where X is money, power, fame, fortune, popularity, whatever. But they're pretty well setup to do whatever they want, as long as they don't want to be a thief. And even then, sorcery + shadows, or just getting a misdirection scroll (bard spell, non music, should be non signature, elemental?).

>As it stands we don't have a guild specific ability to make extra plats.

That was never the question. The question was 'WMs can't make money'. That is the one I answered. No one asked if WMs have a very specific system only they can use.

>From my point of view. Rangers, Thieves, and Moon Mages have guild only methods of making plat that encourage them to leave the hunting ground and socialize.

So, bow carving, which is the same as weapon smithing, which WMs can do. Or lockpick carving, which, again, is pretty much the same as weapon smithing. Or MMs, which can't actually make CJ anymore, I don't believe? Even if they could, it's about to be rolled into enchanting, which, hey! WMs can do! Imagine that.

You're basically saying 'we do not have a WM only crafting system'. Ok. That's true. You do, however, enjoy being a lore secondary guild, and can train the crafting skills to make things to make money.

>All I am saying is, it would be nice to have something like they do, to do outside the hunting ground to make profit. That is exclusive to my guild.

Well, no, you are literally saying that. Ok. That's just not going to happen. One of the goals with DR going forward was to move every crafting system to a core utility that every guild access. With the same skills. And can train. There is no more 'only X can make Y', at least for now. There is the possibility for guild specific templates later, but there have been other priorities and no real details on it. You could take up alchemy (ok, bad example) or leather/cloth armor making, and do your prep/fabrication in social settings just fine.

>It's worth mentioning that even if we do hunt, and the critter drops a box or is skinnable, survival primes still have the profit advantage.

Eh, that's debatable. Skinning, you should be able to keep at-level without much work as long as you don't neglect it or something. And I say this having played a few survival terts to 50, and a few survival primes to 50. Boxes can be very profitable, but they require time and tools to pick. You could just as easily engage a locksmith to open them for you, as well. Give him a 1-10% cut per bag, or something.

>Badgopher is an idiot.

Yep. I am! Especially since everything else in your reply agreed with what I said, anyway.

>>All I am saying is, it would be nice to have something like they do, to do outside the hunting ground to make profit. That is exclusive to my guild.

>One of the goals with DR going forward was to move every crafting system to a core utility that every guild access. With the same skills. And can train. There is no more 'only X can make Y', at least for now.

It's worth remembering that the reasoning behind that goal was that everyone basically agreed that it would be awesome if everyone hand their guild crafting system. But in practice, DR's development manpower made it impossible to support the guild crafting systems that already existed -- new systems couldn't find the manpower to get off the ground, and existing systems couldn't find the manpower to fix bugs and expand.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

>>Warrior Mages cannot craft capped bows or capped arrows which are as effective as Ranger made.

>>Nor can we craft grand master lockpicks as Thieves.

>>Or make gweths as Moon mages.

At least two of those are a "yet", because they weren't converted to 3.0 crafting systems yet.

I'll guess that gweths will still be a MM exclusive enchantment, but everyone will be crafting keys and bows equally (with enough skill) sooner or later. There might someday be guild-unique crafting templates, like thieves may have some mega-pick template, but that won't happen until all the general crafting templates are done.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

It was decided some time ago that Guild-only crafting was a Bad Thing and would never be a fair or balanced system. It sabotaged the Lore skillsets completely. DR has never and will never have even development across the Guilds. Lore crafting is a much easier system to manage (and easier to get resources for) if all Guilds are included. It is very profitable, and warrior mages are quite competent with it due to being Lore secondary.

These complaints are beyond silly and serve no purpose other than to waste our dang time.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>Seems like to me, considering how extensively used they are by all guilds, gweths should probably be general enchanting.

That is not a good argument, since it ties the decision to popularity instead of guild identity. I'm sure a Wand of Murrula's Flame would also be used extensively by all guilds, too!

That said, there are other, more personally persuasive arguments down this road. I contemplate asking to see gweths be general enchanting and gwethsmashers remain Moonie only.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>That said, there are other, more personally persuasive arguments down this road. I contemplate asking to see gweths be general enchanting and gwethsmashers remain Moonie only.

I do view game-changing devices like Gweths as 'should be as open as possible' features. Meaning, since they're quite important to the function of the game as a whole (you know, helping make it more than just a progress quest front end, in some ways), I think it makes a lot of sense to have it be a universally craftable item, rather than just one guild.

I could see MMs reasonably getting some kind of specific 'special' kind that's better than non-MM ones, but honestly, the more people making gweths, the better.

>>Would love to see those universal "moonstone" gweths that I think I saw some GMNPCs sometimes have become the MM-awesome version, if general gweths become public.

Honestly as far as super special MM Gweths go, I'm happy enough with Thoughtcast 3.0. When it comes to a rewrite of the telepathy system we probably need to make it simpler to access rather than introducing yet another tier to it.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

That was very honest.

Current spellbook > Old spellbook. By millions of miles.

Summoning CURRENTLY has limited applications but it will be added to.

The only thing that I have seen people complain about really is the YS change. If you think a spellbook where there were lots of mechanically wrong choices of which spell to use (IE if you weren't training TM with CL or using ALA in PvP when you outclassed shield and LB when you didn't, you were doing it wrong), and other spells were basically copy paste damage dealers was a good idea then I am not sure what to say. Yes, we lost some spells. Yes some spells changed in function. But at the end of it all, we are left with a spellbook where each spell is useful (excepting possibly YS and Ward Break which DO stuff but don't feel particularly useful) and different.

The majority of complaints I have seen really just boil down to "This is different than I remember and I am upset".

But the system overall is much better for the changes.

- Starlear

Again and again this comes down to not understanding the system.

Align fire. Cast fire spell. Generate 3 charge. Cast not fire not water spell. Generate 1 charge. Cast water spell. Lose 2 charge.

Having 0 charge doesn't penalize, and as far as I know you can't go negative. So the only penalty you suffer is having to cast 2 non penalty spells or one bonused spell per counter alignment spell.

You're not restricted. You're not penalized. The only thing charge runs is your boost via pathways and such. You can cast spells counter to your alignment all day long.

And your example of 'cast fire then water' is still perfectly functional. Can do that all day long. Elemental mages in other games are not DR war mages though.

---

I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

>You're not restricted. You're not penalized.

So you're telling me that you can cast the opposite element to your heart's content and summon your familiar and use pathways?

We have spells that deal purely physical damage.

Rimefang and FOI are on test and going in with 3.1. FOI was briefly live in 3.0 but was disabled because you could exploit hunting area spawn rates with it and because it broke mana levels in rooms iirc.

Earth Sense was removed because it was completely underwhelming and additionally the one thing it did beyond the search (MO buff)...well...MO was removed.

New AEG > Old AEG.

Old MoA > New MoA but Old MoA was overpowered because it didnt fall off with distance like was intended. Additionally with the rewrites to vitality, a damage over time spell would be pretty garbage.

Our buff spells did change, but with the obvious exception of YS, you get the same effects having them on as you had before. This is a better alternative to them all costing a bunch more slots.

You are thinking about Summoning all wrong. You didn't get anything from it yet. But now the framework exists for there to be more individualization of guilds via the use of the guild only skills...which now everyone finally has.

That said, I have not had to change a single thing about my pathway use or familiar summoning, so I am not experiencing the annoyance you are. For now, Summoning is just a skill to train and some TDP's but so are pretty much all the guild only skills. Heck, some of them haven't been released yet and thus they don't have the TDP's yet.

I do think it is a bit silly to complain about Summoning lacking function at this time. There are more important tbings for the devs to do. Does it exist? Can it be trained and thus allow you to circle? Good enough until the second pass comes.

Also I was not trying to imply you personally were upset, that was more a blanket statement about the last couple posts I read about it. I do run into a bunch of WM's though and most are pretty happy with the changes once they actually dive in and get past the learning curve.



- Starlear

You can choose your opposing element freely with enough summoning skil (500? 700? I forget). But its a bit odd to complain about maintaining charge in one breath and say summoning is useless in another. Why do you even WANT charge, then?

And anyone who isn't surrounded by Warrior Mages is logged onto Gemstone. Still looks like the most popular guild when I check the who.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

>>I think you know what I mean but I can spell it out.

I've stopped trying to discern between people who genuinely don't understand the system and people who, through hyperbole, give the appearance that they don't understand the system.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>Right now the only good way to train summoning is out of combat with summon admittance and running a pathway.

My PC was easily able to train Summoning in combat. All I had to do was keep a pathway running while I trained TM with a spell from my aligned element. During other weapons, I'd cast disablers from my aligned element. My buff routine contained two spells in my opposing element.

>So you're telling me that you can cast the opposite element to your heart's content and summon your familiar and use pathways?

Yep. Balanced by casting spells of my aligned element, a couple spells from my opposing element are no big deal, even while running a pathway.

>Cast not fire not water spell. Generate 1 charge.

I'm 99% sure casting non-aligned, non-opposing spells does nothing to your charge. Summon Impedance until you can't any more. Cast ES. Summon Impedance, fail. Cast MoF. Summon Impedance, succeed. I don't know where the rumor that non-aligned, non-opposing spells do anything came from, and I don't remember it from my time as a player.

Javac
JGM - Crafting Team

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net.

>>I'm 99% sure casting non-aligned, non-opposing spells does nothing to your charge.

This is correct. Only the aligned and the opposed books matter insofar as charge goes.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas