I've never trained stealing to any great extent. I've picked up about 30 odd ranks over the years from classes and playing around, but I've never seriously trained the skill.

For some reason, it is annoying to me that players (I don't believe I've ever heard a GM tell us to) insist you must learn stealing, as a Trader, to avoid theft.

I started out as most everyone else, as a 0 nothing Trader too, prior to any watch verbs or 'feelings', etc. that exist now, and have managed all 80s circles later to do just fine with the amount of coin I've amassed by almost exclusively running routes.

Learning stealing is not necessary, and if anything is just a waste of effort that could be put into something useful, say like swimming.

I know theft is annoying and aggrevating and it can really put a pinch on you when you are young. But you ain't going to make the richy rich coin until later on in circle anyways (say closer to 30ish circle), so just work on getting those circles. And at that point, whatever minor theivery that goes on is nothing compared to what your contracts will be bringing in for you.

So later you loose a gold, or platinum, it is relative to nothing as contracts are endless and the next profit will offset any previous losses, your bank account will grow, and and you'll become one of those lazy Traders who don't care anymore about it.

AKA Gidske

things were a little different when my trader was little. mainly, because a certain guild wasn't quite as secure and hidden pre-web as it is now, and as a first circle, i sat in the den of thieves itself learning my first 50 lessons of stealing. <yes, they could sense finger-waggling intruders back then - but as a trader, i wasn't as likely to get outted unless someone had tried to teach me backstab ;-)>
no, and schvartz didn't sneak me in there either, schvartz had nothing to do with it cause we were all on one account back then. but all told, i managed thru the years to accumulate 100 ranks of stealing - which doesn't do much to stop the skilled and guilded - but serves to mostly keep amateurs out of my pockets.

another tactic i used back then - back in the 'bad' old days of scc when everyone and his cousin traded in shard, including shapeshifter et al, was to run around with hardly any fluff to speak of, and with an animal rather than a caravan. so most of the thieves ignored me and chose to pick on the traders that didn't look like a newbie.

once i got my moneybelt, i stopped that tactic, as it wasn't needed anymore.

and theres traders like hostro that have alot more stealing than bags - from the title he was wearing he has over 300. xip has quite a sizable amount too. but as far as actually utilizing it for profit, isn't much you can make from the shops as an amateur, so i'm not really training it as much anymore as a trader. i can make alot more on the caravan routes.


bags







"Word on the street is, ya been lookin' out for the best interests of the Guild."

If your trader isn't noticing his being stole from messaging you may want to highlight it in color. Mines red and definately shows out from the rest of the games messaging.


Life is a game and you were put here to entertain me.

It's in the Bag! http://skyela.cjb.cc

Speaking of the special messaging we get...

Is it infallible? The script I run tracks the number of times I'm stolen from (Or rather see that messaging) However as I try to keep a gem pouch full of worthless gems, the number of times I've been stolen from, does not equal the number of gems I lose. As in, I lose more gems, then I see thefts. Just wondering if perhaps I'm somehow missing some thefts somewhere.

Mole
_______
At 1.0000001 with the Universe

you only get the messaging if a guilded thief has a big risk in stealing from you, or if they are close to you in stealing skill - so i've found with schvartz vs bags, making my 6th grab, or if one of my nonthieves is practicing with bags.

its a function of skill, you don't always get the messaging. only if you're close to being able to catch the person.





"Word on the street is, ya been lookin' out for the best interests of the Guild."

close as in either likely to get caught on that or the next attempted grab.

as i said, repeated stealing grabs makes the 'risk' factor go up tremendously, regardless of skill disparity between 2 characters.


so....

example;
character 1 has 100 stealing, 150 perception. - our victim
character 2 has 400 stealing, perception irrelevant - guild -thief
character 3 has 150 stealing, perception irrelevant - guild -thief
character 4 has 100 stealing, perception irrelevant - g- mmoon


character 3 steals from char 1 once, no messaging.
character 3 steals from char 1 2nd time, gets big risk messaging, trader gets heavy pouch message.
character 3 steals from char 1 3rd time, gets caught, doesn't actually get in the pockets.


character 2 steals from char 1 time 1, 2, 3, 4th, 5th time with no messaging.
character 2 stealfrom from char 1 time 6 and gets big risk message, trader gets heavy pouch message

character 2 stops stealing before actually getting caught.

character 4 tries to steal from character 1 and doesn't get in, trader gets heavy pouch message and catches the attempt.






"Word on the street is, ya been lookin' out for the best interests of the Guild."

....oh yeah, I forgot.

Use a horse when running routes.

Gidske

And the horse only works if you have one!

It's not that all that much money is being stolen, it's that I don't even get any message at all and suddenly I go to pay a debt and have no coins on me. I guess I'll just keep up the juggling and keep looking for someone who will let me steal from them. Thanks for all the quick responses and if anyone wants to let me tag along/tag along with me, let me know.

Although I've recently started on the routes again, it's been 8 years since I've run my trader. Since my clerics carry direct damage spells, a pretty cool crossbow and no coin, they don't worry much about thieves.

Thieves are now much more aggressive than they were back in the day -- I have to admit I have been taken aback by it. I'm not sure that roll playing a "thug" is out of place in the game, but I'm also not sure what our IG response should be. My weapon skills are definitely over my circle (hey, 8 years ago, we used to go hunting...), but it's really not part of my Trader's persona to go rolling around in the dirt with some filthy, pig fornicating cutthroat.

In the short term, I've taken to carrying a few thousand copper -- they can have as many fistfulls of that as they like (we used to raise Strength back then too...).

However, I think there should be a longer term solution to the escalating threat to route traders (multiple participants in a single victimization, etc., etc.). If we are to be left without anything in the way of natural defensive ability, then in line with our Guild's persona, we should be able to hire protection. I'd gladly pay 100 plat to keep a big sword on retainer (PC or NPC) -- Am I in danger of losing 100 plat to thieves (::chuckle:: not with what I get per contract), but you know the old saying: "Millions for Defense; not one penny for tribute".

What are your thoughts?


Player of:
Adzul the Cleric
Linus the Empath
Ignatius the Cleric
Ocatvius the Trader

<<Move out of Zoluren. Work Therengia or Interprovince. Zoluren has and will continue to be a haven for thieves.

<<Also, use a horse. Yes, yes, it will not 'prevent' theft, but it sure lowers the probablity greatly, mucho greatly.

---

Aye, but this still doesn't solve the problem for those who like Zoluren and don't have a horse. Carrying lots of coins works...until you fall over (and yes, I train strength...). Protect coin works...until you get distracted. There are many methods that work a little bit. The problem is there is a gap zone, it seems like. At some point you are very, very good at perception/hiding/stealing, have a horse/moneybelt/burly friend, and have so many gazillions of plats you don't mind the loss of a few silver or even a few gold. But before that point you are working hard on your skills, trying to earn a bit of money, try to take different routes in and out of the guild in the Crossing and when you lose a few silver it's frustrating. Not the end of the world, because as someone posted earlier you can always follow the yak around some more, but frustrating that you make enough money to have some worth stealing but yet don't have the ranks to catch the thieves who are smart at what they are doing.

Once again, I'm not trying to get rid of theft - I think it's a realistic idea in a bustling city. I do wish there was a way to be more "aware" when you are in a city - I know if I'm surrounded by people I am much more aware of where my wallet/coins are then when I'm all by myself in a sleepy town. Besides shutting oneself up and juggling for days on end, it's a slow and frustrating growth time. Paying close attention to the people around you, trying to watch the kind of coins you have, and then going to pay a debt only to find it's all whisked itself out of your pockets without you getting even an inkling of a message is irritating. And if you're coming back from Wolf Clan and Tiger Clan, there's not many ways to get to the Crossing bank if you've had a few hefty contracts between the two.

Pant, pant. Must...stop...ranting...

>Carrying lots of coins works...until you fall over

It's never a problem for me.

>At some point you are very, very good at perception/hiding/stealing, have a horse/moneybelt/burly friend, and have so many gazillions of plats you don't mind the loss of a few silver or even a few gold. But before that point you are working hard on your skills, trying to earn a bit of money, try to take different routes in and out of the guild in the Crossing and when you lose a few silver it's frustrating

It'll get better. Rather quickly in fact. I don't have a money belt, I know someone who does but never uses it. I do not use protect coin, and the burly friend only rides along to teach me armor.

The things you are complaining about go away with time. Eventually you will make so much it won't matter. Then you will be like the rest of us and go.. ehh? Theft?

<<The things you are complaining about go away with time. Eventually you will make so much it won't matter. Then you will be like the rest of us and go.. ehh? Theft?

---

Which is my entire point. Eventually I am sure I won't care and won't even notice when a few silver, gold, or (dare I aspire to so much?) plat go missing from my pockets. But *unti then*, knowing that it is going to get better doesn't fix anything. I make enough money to be a enticing target without having the skills necessary to protect myself against it. (yes, I juggle, etc. etc.).

The idea of a spec thief, or bonus to perception in the city, seems logical to me. As a trader prone to carrying coin, I'd likely be a bit suspicious of anyone anywhere. Carrying coin in Crossing, I'd be extremely suspicious. Sneaking everywhere only works when you don't get noticed...

When we're out renting these hirelings that might or might not someday exist, maybe you could rent ones with a strongbox. You could put coins in the strongbox and have two guards protect it on the caravan. There would still be the risk of theft, and you should get better at protecting it with time, but it would be nice if this were a lower-circle possibility. Maybe choosing what skills you get would help - instead of automatically getting spec finesse, or tying deaders, you could choose spec thief or rent strongbox or whatnot.

I suppose I am complaining a little bit, but I'm not asking thieves to go away or stop picking on Traders, because that would be silly and would take away some of the 'realism' of carrying coin in an urban area.

>If we defeat them, we get the box. If we dun't...well, we die.

but uhh... I'm too cheap to hire guards. but I could get stinky Guards and have an empty box..

hmm or really good guards and an empty box...

I think I like the idea.

"I don't have a money belt, I know someone who does but never uses it. I do not use protect coin...."

OMG, I didn't know about protect coin, How cool! (I tried the speculate theft too) I just wish there was some better way to teach people about what's available in the game. We need a handbook or guidbook or something. It's just silly to assume some brand new character is gonna wade through miles of posts to learn what's possible in the game. Especially since there is no good way to search though them.