I found out something that got me rather peeved. Mostly because it's unposted, and unlisted anywhere. There is zero information about this little hidden deal. If you have rented a shop, and you have not had sales during a rental period, your rent goes up, and quickly snowballs to an obscene amount.
I want to repeat, I am extremely annoyed that this is apparently an unposted rule, that no one who has a shop that I have spoken to was aware of, and it snowballs quickly to excessive rent fees without ANY documentation to let people know about it(I checked Epedia, and the ingame store help, and these forums as best I could with no mention anywhere).
I would call it stupid, and unreasonable, but I would shrug and say well, I didn't read the fine print, if it was listed anywhere, that said "Oh, by the way, your rent could be 3300 platinum in a month if you don't have sales."
Now I'll post some from my ledgers:
| 0 | 1 Mol 419 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 25357500K. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 25357500K.
| 0 | 1 Dol 419 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 |
| | | sales for a gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including |
| | | rent and other administrative fees, totalled 33120000K. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 33120000K.
| 0 | 1 Akr 420 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 1 sales for a gross |
| | | income of 5000000L. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 18630000L. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 13630000L.
And the host who answered my assist:
XXXX says, "Well I took a look and didn't see anything abnormal."
You say, "That's 3312 plat."
You say, "In a month."
You say, "Seems... excessive."
XXXX says, "Your rent does go up based on the number of surfaces you have out, and not selling anything or very much can increase your rent."
You ask, "Ah, so if things haven't sold recently rent goes up that much?"
XXXX says, "It can, yes."
You ask, "But 3000 platinum?"
You say, "And 2000 another month."
XXXX says, "I don't control the amounts, but it appears to be working as designed."
*There was more to the conversation, most of it irrelevant for this topic, but did include XXXX saying she'd mention it to feedback to have some note about it
So, lets just say I'm extremely annoyed at the moment, because I do not like unwritten rules that charge stupidly high amounts that ultimately cost me, maybe 8000-10000 plat. And well, I am posting here because either:
It needs changing to something reasonable
Changed into a simple, you don't have sales for say 4 rental periods, you get evicted(Don't care what the number of rental periods is, pick one)
OR You bloody put up some signs to warn people about it, like decent folks would.
THODD
DR-EVIKE
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/13/2016 10:12 PM CDT
This is under the Shop help, under EXPENSES
Expenses in your shop can come in the form of many things - Changing its name, repairing damage done by random events, or any number of other things. These expenses accumulate over the course of a given pay period, and when your rent comes due, your expenses are applied to your shop's account.
Expenses can be offset by depositing money into your shop's account, or by earning money from making sales. You can view HELP BACKROOM for a full list of the activities that can be performed back there. If your shop loses too much money without having income or deposits to support it, you may be evicted. View HELP EVICTION for more information about that.
~Evike
Expenses in your shop can come in the form of many things - Changing its name, repairing damage done by random events, or any number of other things. These expenses accumulate over the course of a given pay period, and when your rent comes due, your expenses are applied to your shop's account.
Expenses can be offset by depositing money into your shop's account, or by earning money from making sales. You can view HELP BACKROOM for a full list of the activities that can be performed back there. If your shop loses too much money without having income or deposits to support it, you may be evicted. View HELP EVICTION for more information about that.
~Evike
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/13/2016 10:26 PM CDT
Just out of curiosity, for how long do you have to completely neglect running your business for it to cost you that much in losses?
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/13/2016 10:33 PM CDT
I helped you by editing out the Host's name.
Please read the post by GM Evike that shows you where information in regard to your situation is found in SHOP HELP.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
ABSOLON
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/13/2016 10:35 PM CDT
<<Just out of curiosity, for how long do you have to completely neglect running your business for it to cost you that much in losses?
I've had a couple of non-consecutive months with no sales and didn't receive any increase in fees that I noticed. If there were then it was very small.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
I've had a couple of non-consecutive months with no sales and didn't receive any increase in fees that I noticed. If there were then it was very small.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
SQUANTO
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/14/2016 05:23 AM CDT
Yeah, I have never seen anything that insanely high. Do you have a shop balance to help offset costs or do you tend to withdraw out all your coin?
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
LETHAN23
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/14/2016 09:44 AM CDT
The fees in the shop are really exorbitant and not told in the shop help. "Changing its name, repairing damage done by random events, or any number of other things." I guess the "any number of other things" would be where it's warning us at... But there is no where that show a warning that if we do not sell or have low sales, we would pay that much.
| 0 | 1 Mol 417 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 307500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 307500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 |
| | | sales for a gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including |
| | | rent and other administrative fees, totalled 1230000K. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 1230000K.
This is the first two month I had my shop. So if you do not sell anything for a second month, the rent will be raised by 400%, which is drastic. I would understand some fines/fee, but to completely wipe a bank account like that, that's extreme.
Also, the fines does not seem to be consistent
| 0 | 1 Lir 418 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 367500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 367500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Uth 418 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 367500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 367500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Mol 418 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 1470000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 1470000K. |
This time, i have not sold anything for 2 months and no extra charges, just on the third month.
Then another month, i made a sale and still got an extra fee. Of 900% this time
| 0 | 1 Uth 419 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 1 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 100000L. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 3307500L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 3207500L. |
Where are all those coming from? We do not get any warning about those kind of fees, not in the help files, nowhere. And when we receive them, there are no information on where they are coming from. The ledger should at least give us a warning in it like :
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 |
| | | sales for a gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including |
| | | rent and other administrative fees, totalled 307500K. |
| | | Due to the low amount of sales, a fine of 922500K has |
| | | been charged to your account, for a total of 1230000K |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 1230000K. |
This would give us a chance to fix what is wrong.
| 0 | 1 Mol 417 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 307500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 307500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 |
| | | sales for a gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including |
| | | rent and other administrative fees, totalled 1230000K. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 1230000K.
This is the first two month I had my shop. So if you do not sell anything for a second month, the rent will be raised by 400%, which is drastic. I would understand some fines/fee, but to completely wipe a bank account like that, that's extreme.
Also, the fines does not seem to be consistent
| 0 | 1 Lir 418 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 367500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 367500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Uth 418 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 367500K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 367500K. |
+
+
+
+
| 0 | 1 Mol 418 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 1470000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 1470000K. |
This time, i have not sold anything for 2 months and no extra charges, just on the third month.
Then another month, i made a sale and still got an extra fee. Of 900% this time
| 0 | 1 Uth 419 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 1 sales for a |
| | | gross income of 100000L. Your expenses, including rent and |
| | | other administrative fees, totalled 3307500L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 3207500L. |
Where are all those coming from? We do not get any warning about those kind of fees, not in the help files, nowhere. And when we receive them, there are no information on where they are coming from. The ledger should at least give us a warning in it like :
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 |
| | | sales for a gross income of 0K. Your expenses, including |
| | | rent and other administrative fees, totalled 307500K. |
| | | Due to the low amount of sales, a fine of 922500K has |
| | | been charged to your account, for a total of 1230000K |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of |
| | | 1230000K. |
This would give us a chance to fix what is wrong.
SQUANTO
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/14/2016 12:39 PM CDT
The cable company owns your shop.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
ABSOLON
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/14/2016 01:20 PM CDT
Yeah, I've never seen anything like that, and going back over my complete history there was one time when I had two consecutive no-sale months with no increase in fees. The only increase in fees I ever got was from adding another surface.
I did notice a couple of bugs though:
-Totalled should be totaled.
-It changes from K to D to L month to month for no apparent reason.
You study the records in a thick ledger...
| 0 | 1 Uth 416 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 416 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 200000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 416 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 417 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 1 sales for a gross income of 400000L. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 235000L. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 417 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 417 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 417 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 5 sales for a gross income of 1300000K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 1135000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 2 sales for a gross income of |
| | | 200000D. Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 418 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 200000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 418 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 418 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 600000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 435000D. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 418 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 418 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 419 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 1 sales for a gross income of 500000L. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 335000L. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 419 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 800000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 635000D. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 419 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 2250000D. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 2085000D. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 419 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 419 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 1 sales for a gross income of |
| | | 250000L. Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 85000L. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 420 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 5 sales for a gross income of 1550000K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 183750K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 1366250K. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 420 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 4 sales for a gross income of 5360000D. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 183750D. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 5176250D. |
I did notice a couple of bugs though:
-Totalled should be totaled.
-It changes from K to D to L month to month for no apparent reason.
You study the records in a thick ledger...
| 0 | 1 Uth 416 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 416 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 200000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 416 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 417 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 1 sales for a gross income of 400000L. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 235000L. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 417 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 417 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 417 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 5 sales for a gross income of 1300000K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 1135000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 417 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 2 sales for a gross income of |
| | | 200000D. Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 418 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 200000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 35000D. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 418 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 418 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 600000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 435000D. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 418 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 418 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 419 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 1 sales for a gross income of 500000L. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 335000L. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 419 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 800000D. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 635000D. |
| 0 | 1 Uth 419 | In the months of Shorka and Uthmor, you made 2 sales for a gross income of 2250000D. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000D. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 2085000D. |
| 0 | 1 Mol 419 | In the months of Arhat and Moliko, you made 0 sales for a gross income of 0K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net loss of 165000K. |
| 0 | 1 Dol 419 | In the months of Skullcleaver and Dolefaren, you made 1 sales for a gross income of |
| | | 250000L. Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 165000L. |
| | | After paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 85000L. |
| 0 | 1 Akr 420 | In the months of Akr and Akr, you made 5 sales for a gross income of 1550000K. Your |
| | | expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 183750K. After paying |
| | | your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 1366250K. |
| 0 | 1 Lir 420 | In the months of Ka'len and Lirisa, you made 4 sales for a gross income of 5360000D. |
| | | Your expenses, including rent and other administrative fees, totalled 183750D. After |
| | | paying your bills, you were left with a net earnings of 5176250D. |
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/14/2016 02:06 PM CDT
Since nobody else seems to be seeing this, what else is different about this situation?
Are you doing the regular maintenance activities in your shop?
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Are you doing the regular maintenance activities in your shop?
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
LETHAN23
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees ::Edited::
06/14/2016 02:12 PM CDT
Yes, repairing when needed, adding wares if i have any space available on my table, and visiting my shop almost daily to see if there was some sales.
THODD
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/14/2016 10:19 PM CDT
<This is under the Shop help, under EXPENSES
<Expenses in your shop can come in the form of many things - Changing its name, repairing damage done by random events, or any number of other things. These expenses accumulate over the course of a given pay period, and when your rent comes due, your expenses are applied to your shop's account.
<Expenses can be offset by depositing money into your shop's account, or by earning money from making sales. You can view HELP BACKROOM for a full list of the activities that can be performed back there. If your shop loses too much money without having income or deposits to support it, you may be evicted. View HELP EVICTION for more information about that.
I read this while I was hunting for any sort of mention for the charges. Exactly where does this specify anything about drastic increases in rent when no sales are made? It is highly ambiguous to say the least. It doesn't even mention that rent increases when you have no sales. So I hardly consider this any sort of information or warning to the store owner about these "fees". That you would even consider this a fair response, well, lets just say it doesn't instill much confidence.
So, is the math for this increasing rent due to no sales posted anywhere, and if not, what exactly is the formula that increases a store's rental fees to over 3300 platinum?
For those curious about how the charges went, some of these include fees for repairs:
Period 1: 517500, The standard rent fee.
Period 2: 2070000, an increase of approximately 400%
Period 3: 4657500
Period 4: 8280000
Period 5: 12937500
Period 6: 18630000
Period 7: 25357500
Period 8: 33120000
Period 9: 13630000(Some items were sold, but not enough to have a positive total)
Up until period 7 or 8, I believe I had plenty in my store bank account to cover the fees, and since I looked only at the sales part of my ledger, I did not notice the strange increases in fees until I was evicted, and then mugged at the bank for the rest of the money due. After renting a new location, I then checked the expenses part of the ledger, and that brings us to today, where I maintain the absolute LEAST that should be done is place a big sign in the clerks office telling people of this, as of yet unlisted and unposted, trader store rule. Ideally it would also be added to store help.
And of course, better still, just evict someone without sales for say 4 periods, rather than try to bankrupt them. Again, I'm not asking for refunds or anything, though it would be nice. I am, however, infuriated by the lack of alerting players to this, and further infuriated by being told it's covered in Shop Help under expenses, when it CLEARLY is not.
<Expenses in your shop can come in the form of many things - Changing its name, repairing damage done by random events, or any number of other things. These expenses accumulate over the course of a given pay period, and when your rent comes due, your expenses are applied to your shop's account.
<Expenses can be offset by depositing money into your shop's account, or by earning money from making sales. You can view HELP BACKROOM for a full list of the activities that can be performed back there. If your shop loses too much money without having income or deposits to support it, you may be evicted. View HELP EVICTION for more information about that.
I read this while I was hunting for any sort of mention for the charges. Exactly where does this specify anything about drastic increases in rent when no sales are made? It is highly ambiguous to say the least. It doesn't even mention that rent increases when you have no sales. So I hardly consider this any sort of information or warning to the store owner about these "fees". That you would even consider this a fair response, well, lets just say it doesn't instill much confidence.
So, is the math for this increasing rent due to no sales posted anywhere, and if not, what exactly is the formula that increases a store's rental fees to over 3300 platinum?
For those curious about how the charges went, some of these include fees for repairs:
Period 1: 517500, The standard rent fee.
Period 2: 2070000, an increase of approximately 400%
Period 3: 4657500
Period 4: 8280000
Period 5: 12937500
Period 6: 18630000
Period 7: 25357500
Period 8: 33120000
Period 9: 13630000(Some items were sold, but not enough to have a positive total)
Up until period 7 or 8, I believe I had plenty in my store bank account to cover the fees, and since I looked only at the sales part of my ledger, I did not notice the strange increases in fees until I was evicted, and then mugged at the bank for the rest of the money due. After renting a new location, I then checked the expenses part of the ledger, and that brings us to today, where I maintain the absolute LEAST that should be done is place a big sign in the clerks office telling people of this, as of yet unlisted and unposted, trader store rule. Ideally it would also be added to store help.
And of course, better still, just evict someone without sales for say 4 periods, rather than try to bankrupt them. Again, I'm not asking for refunds or anything, though it would be nice. I am, however, infuriated by the lack of alerting players to this, and further infuriated by being told it's covered in Shop Help under expenses, when it CLEARLY is not.
LETHAN23
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
06/16/2016 08:22 PM CDT
No GM interacting or taking interest in that post anymore? That is quite disappointing to ask question and only have something that I qualify as an "automated answer". We didn't ask for a lot.
LAUGHINGGOD
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
07/17/2016 02:34 PM CDT
A bit late to the party...the only thing SHOP HELP mentions is this:
R>shop help
The SHOP verb allows you to see the wares in most shops. You can type SHOP by itself to view the the items that hold goods for sale, and you can also type SHOP [ITEM] to view the goods for sale on it. Finally, you can type SHOP [GOOD] to view basic information about it, such as where it's worn, what it looks like, and how much it costs.
This also works on Trader Market tables.
Since you are on a newer Front End, you can open the Shopping window and view all of the output in there. To do this, type SHOP WINDOW.
Additionally, if you have links turned on, you can click on items or goods in the window to use the SHOP verb on that item. If you click on the topmost link, it will take you back to the previous list.
Now, I don't know because I don't have a shop, but as a fledgling trader, it'd certainly be nice to know any and all expenses in running a shop. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence in me running a shop (mainly because I'm low circle and the shops are pretty much all rented out).
BTW, that fine would wipe out my bank account three times over. "Working as intended"...ok. Just flat out seems broken to me.
Balkinar (and pals)
R>shop help
The SHOP verb allows you to see the wares in most shops. You can type SHOP by itself to view the the items that hold goods for sale, and you can also type SHOP [ITEM] to view the goods for sale on it. Finally, you can type SHOP [GOOD] to view basic information about it, such as where it's worn, what it looks like, and how much it costs.
This also works on Trader Market tables.
Since you are on a newer Front End, you can open the Shopping window and view all of the output in there. To do this, type SHOP WINDOW.
Additionally, if you have links turned on, you can click on items or goods in the window to use the SHOP verb on that item. If you click on the topmost link, it will take you back to the previous list.
Now, I don't know because I don't have a shop, but as a fledgling trader, it'd certainly be nice to know any and all expenses in running a shop. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence in me running a shop (mainly because I'm low circle and the shops are pretty much all rented out).
BTW, that fine would wipe out my bank account three times over. "Working as intended"...ok. Just flat out seems broken to me.
Balkinar (and pals)
ABSOLON
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
07/17/2016 08:12 PM CDT
It's entirely possible this is a Crossing only thing to aid with inactive shop turn over. I do recall something about that being added in at some point, although I'm not sure of the details or even if this would be related. Fwiw my shop I listed above is in Haven and as mentioned I don't see this issue.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
TRADERTIME
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/06/2019 04:09 AM CDT
I just came back from a break and was noticing this too.. I had kept the account with the shop going and when I checked in.. had like 20k plat and while that seemed low from what I remembered I was like okay...
withdrew most of it just to check, left in ~100plat.. which according to what it tells you, should cover any fees. I had been repairing along the way.. and there were some small sales here and there but I was absent so it wasn't doing much.
I checked again tonight and see this:
This pay period, your shop has:
-Made 0 sales for a total income of 0 Lirums.*
-Incurred a total of 500 Lirums in expenses.
-A current bank account of -42929403 Lirums.
* This amount will be credited to your shop's bank account at the end of the pay period, which will end in 73 andaen (18 RL days). Your rent this pay period will be 258750 Lirums.
like seriously What the heck?! There is absolutely no excuse for this. It is a blatant bug. EXPENSES is not an explanation. At a very minimum it should display any increases in the expenses line item. and it should show the total in the 'rent this pay period' section.
I would really like my money back. I figure I am owed probably close to 20k if not more.
The info for the shop show that if you are negative in sales compared to rent for too long you will be evicted. I can't see anywhere that it will start increasing the rent (without any kind of messaging) exponentially as punishment. And if it that is intended, it is horribly designed. Again, penalties I get, but an increase from ~26 plat to over 4,000 plat? there is absolutely no justification for that. I would rather be evicted.
withdrew most of it just to check, left in ~100plat.. which according to what it tells you, should cover any fees. I had been repairing along the way.. and there were some small sales here and there but I was absent so it wasn't doing much.
I checked again tonight and see this:
This pay period, your shop has:
-Made 0 sales for a total income of 0 Lirums.*
-Incurred a total of 500 Lirums in expenses.
-A current bank account of -42929403 Lirums.
* This amount will be credited to your shop's bank account at the end of the pay period, which will end in 73 andaen (18 RL days). Your rent this pay period will be 258750 Lirums.
like seriously What the heck?! There is absolutely no excuse for this. It is a blatant bug. EXPENSES is not an explanation. At a very minimum it should display any increases in the expenses line item. and it should show the total in the 'rent this pay period' section.
I would really like my money back. I figure I am owed probably close to 20k if not more.
The info for the shop show that if you are negative in sales compared to rent for too long you will be evicted. I can't see anywhere that it will start increasing the rent (without any kind of messaging) exponentially as punishment. And if it that is intended, it is horribly designed. Again, penalties I get, but an increase from ~26 plat to over 4,000 plat? there is absolutely no justification for that. I would rather be evicted.
GRINOM
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/06/2019 11:07 PM CDT
I am curious how long is the break though too. That does seem excessive if its for a couple of weeks or months.
KEISERS
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/07/2019 10:54 AM CDT
I can't currently find the post about it, but the multiplier for not making enough sales to cover your rent was put in so that people would be discouraged from taking long breaks of not adding anything to their shops and just taking up space. It was meant to punish people for the exact thing that happened in your case. It might be out of line if your break was only very short, but if it was of any significant length that would happen very quickly with compounding multiplier.
PURHEART
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/07/2019 01:28 PM CDT
I'm sorry but how do you get they owe you 20 thousand plat?
You admitted you withdrew most of the 100 thou you left in there, "withdrew most of it just to check, left in ~100plat"
"-A current bank account of -42929403 Lirums." The credited line is sort of wrong but a negative amount is never credited to you account, you are in disarrays so you owe them that money, umm if I counted right its a lil over 4 thou plat.
"Your rent this pay period will be 258750 Lirums." which is umm about 25 plat.
So no, you should not get any money back, you took out a big amount of you, like 99 thou, 99 hundred. Not sure why the system allowed you to do that without paying the 4 thousand you owed.
And as was said by another, depending on how long you left it, its to stop folks like you from scarfing up a shop, just letting it sit while others who could be actively using it sit & play the patient game waiting for shops to open up. Now all 3 are/were at full capacity some folks would like to be able to actively use them.
You admitted you withdrew most of the 100 thou you left in there, "withdrew most of it just to check, left in ~100plat"
"-A current bank account of -42929403 Lirums." The credited line is sort of wrong but a negative amount is never credited to you account, you are in disarrays so you owe them that money, umm if I counted right its a lil over 4 thou plat.
"Your rent this pay period will be 258750 Lirums." which is umm about 25 plat.
So no, you should not get any money back, you took out a big amount of you, like 99 thou, 99 hundred. Not sure why the system allowed you to do that without paying the 4 thousand you owed.
And as was said by another, depending on how long you left it, its to stop folks like you from scarfing up a shop, just letting it sit while others who could be actively using it sit & play the patient game waiting for shops to open up. Now all 3 are/were at full capacity some folks would like to be able to actively use them.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/19/2019 06:44 AM CDT
>you are in disarrays
Did you mean "arrears"?
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Did you mean "arrears"?
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
TRADERTIME
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/21/2019 08:36 PM CDT
>>I'm sorry but how do you get they owe you 20 thousand plat?
For the simple fact that it should be documented.
If it was documented, especially in the game shop information, that if you left or didn't have sales for xyz period of time, that your fines would grow exponentially, then fine, my bad. But it isn't. At all.
It looks just like a bug and should either be clarified in the shop help notes and detailed out with exact information so that everyone can make informed decisions or removed/fixed.
And clearly they agreed with me to some extent, because I was given some of the money back when I assisted.
>>umm if I counted right its a lil over 4 thou plat.
That -4k plat was 1 months rent. Not the entire time I was gone, that number goes up to 20k+ but I had money in there that could cover that (and the growing fees along the way to the point it was at 4k for 1 months rent) If I hadn't taken out my money previous to that month coming due, it would have just deducted from what was in there. But because it looked weird, I took my money out to prevent it from doing it to me again so I could see if I was just imagining things, which I wasn't.
>>So no, you should not get any money back, you took out a big amount of you, like 99 thou, 99 hundred. Not sure why the system allowed you to do that without paying the 4 thousand you owed.
It doesn't feel like you understand the situation. Maybe that was poor wording on my original post. But you seem pretty angry about something that has little to nothing to do with you. At the moment I was bringing this up there were definitely other openings in the plaza.
And while I can sympathize with that desire to not hold up a potential opening, documenting that desire and having it spelled out what the consequences are, is very little to ask for, and honestly should be the minimum of what we can expect. The in-game documentation is confusing to say the least. And it definitely doesn't mention additional fees.
>>help evict
>>If your shop ends its pay period with more than your 20 plat owed to the Plaza for three months without earning any money, your shop will be forced closed and your tenancy will be ended. The amount of money that you owe the Plaza will be applied to your debt in the province that the plaza resides in, and >>will have a handling fee assessed on top of that. Your best bet will always be to stay as current as possible with your rent!
>>If you do get evicted, you can retrieve the items from your shop by going to the plaza office and asking the plaza owner for your goods. He will return them to you in a market box, which you can do with what you please. See HELP CLOSING for more details on what happens to the rest of your shop.
If you notice, nothing is in there about exponentially rising fees for lack of sales and the expenses section is incredibly vague as well. And while I greatly appreciated the GM who assisted me, I still feel like the victim of a bug, and that at a minimum the documentation should be updated asap.
For the simple fact that it should be documented.
If it was documented, especially in the game shop information, that if you left or didn't have sales for xyz period of time, that your fines would grow exponentially, then fine, my bad. But it isn't. At all.
It looks just like a bug and should either be clarified in the shop help notes and detailed out with exact information so that everyone can make informed decisions or removed/fixed.
And clearly they agreed with me to some extent, because I was given some of the money back when I assisted.
>>umm if I counted right its a lil over 4 thou plat.
That -4k plat was 1 months rent. Not the entire time I was gone, that number goes up to 20k+ but I had money in there that could cover that (and the growing fees along the way to the point it was at 4k for 1 months rent) If I hadn't taken out my money previous to that month coming due, it would have just deducted from what was in there. But because it looked weird, I took my money out to prevent it from doing it to me again so I could see if I was just imagining things, which I wasn't.
>>So no, you should not get any money back, you took out a big amount of you, like 99 thou, 99 hundred. Not sure why the system allowed you to do that without paying the 4 thousand you owed.
It doesn't feel like you understand the situation. Maybe that was poor wording on my original post. But you seem pretty angry about something that has little to nothing to do with you. At the moment I was bringing this up there were definitely other openings in the plaza.
And while I can sympathize with that desire to not hold up a potential opening, documenting that desire and having it spelled out what the consequences are, is very little to ask for, and honestly should be the minimum of what we can expect. The in-game documentation is confusing to say the least. And it definitely doesn't mention additional fees.
>>help evict
>>If your shop ends its pay period with more than your 20 plat owed to the Plaza for three months without earning any money, your shop will be forced closed and your tenancy will be ended. The amount of money that you owe the Plaza will be applied to your debt in the province that the plaza resides in, and >>will have a handling fee assessed on top of that. Your best bet will always be to stay as current as possible with your rent!
>>If you do get evicted, you can retrieve the items from your shop by going to the plaza office and asking the plaza owner for your goods. He will return them to you in a market box, which you can do with what you please. See HELP CLOSING for more details on what happens to the rest of your shop.
If you notice, nothing is in there about exponentially rising fees for lack of sales and the expenses section is incredibly vague as well. And while I greatly appreciated the GM who assisted me, I still feel like the victim of a bug, and that at a minimum the documentation should be updated asap.
NIKPACK
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/22/2019 03:56 PM CDT
It was announced here: https://forums.play.net/forums/DragonRealms/The%20Traders/Shops/view/219
Nikpack
Nikpack
TRADERTIME
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/22/2019 04:29 PM CDT
That is helpful. Thanks!
Though again, it isn't in-game and it is a post from 2011. How would anyone be expected to remember or know that? I started my trader after that time didn't even think to peruse 20+ years of GM updates.
I still don't think it is unreasonable to ask that this be documented in-game.
Though again, it isn't in-game and it is a post from 2011. How would anyone be expected to remember or know that? I started my trader after that time didn't even think to peruse 20+ years of GM updates.
I still don't think it is unreasonable to ask that this be documented in-game.
TRADERTIME
Re: Unreasonable, Unlisted and undocumented Rental Fees
09/22/2019 05:11 PM CDT
I also found out that an easier way to reset it (instead of slowly getting the low-income counter down month by month and thanks again for pointing out that GM post!) is to just close the shop and then reopen it.
Just in case anyone else finds themselves in this situation.
Just in case anyone else finds themselves in this situation.
