I just want to say thank you for listening to the feedback. These are fantastic quality of life buffs that make these spells much, much more viable. I'm very happy with these changes, and I'm eager to try out trading experience with the negotiant.
I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I'd still petition for something, anything to be added to regalia to make it useful as we get better and better armor (see shield of light).
SHIFT3
SHIFT3
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/23/2019 07:27 PM CST
I think I may have found a bug. "Get Negotiate" and "Invoke Tessera" to make it frosty are taking the same amount of starlight now. Previously, getting a new one cost you everything, but you could invoke it for a fraction of your overall starlight. Is this intended?
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/24/2019 01:37 AM CST
>>"Get Negotiate" and "Invoke Tessera" to make it frosty are taking the same amount of starlight now. Previously, getting a new one cost you everything, but you could invoke it for a fraction of your overall starlight.
Both have always taken all of your starlight and awarded experience proportional to the amount taken. The only difference between the two is that the former requires a full aura whereas the latter does not. No change was made to this behavior.
GM Grejuva
Both have always taken all of your starlight and awarded experience proportional to the amount taken. The only difference between the two is that the former requires a full aura whereas the latter does not. No change was made to this behavior.
GM Grejuva
SHIFT3
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/24/2019 12:29 PM CST
> Both have always taken all of your starlight and awarded experience proportional to the amount taken. The only difference between the two is that the former requires a full aura whereas the latter does not. No change was made to this behavior.
Huh, I guess I never noticed the exp gain, so I assumed it was only an incremental step. Would a change be considered? There's already a natural cool down since you can't invoke the tessera while it's frosty. Could this be dropped to a 1 step decrease and keep or increase the trading experience rewarded? Basically the trader version of practice breathing.
PRIMEQ
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/26/2019 08:05 PM CST
Thank you so much for these. Really great QOL upgrades.
>>The Negotiants
How did I miss this? You can feed energy directly into the Negotiants?
>>Trabe Chalice
Curious why you did it this way. Can't we just release it and then recast to refresh hitpoints? I suppose there is the potential aura cost.
>>Regalia
Unfortunately I still find real armor better, though I suppose I can play with it more. Will have to pick it up anyway to get Enrichment. :(
>>Arbiter's Stylus
AMAZING. So in theme for the spell and yet also incredibly useful. I immediately ran out and practiced on some broodlings, and I killed them with it! One thing to keep in mind with Traders is that we are super tanks. Two secondary defenses + defense buffs, and two tert offenses + no offensive buffs (well, unless you count Finesse for +Agi). We don't even have a Debilitation that stuns/immobilizes/webs/makes prone. So anything to increase our accuracy is a huge deal.
>>Starcrash / Blur / Avren Aevareae / MOM
Wonderful.
If any new spells are in the works, I pray that they affect offensive capacity. :)
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
>>The Negotiants
How did I miss this? You can feed energy directly into the Negotiants?
>>Trabe Chalice
Curious why you did it this way. Can't we just release it and then recast to refresh hitpoints? I suppose there is the potential aura cost.
>>Regalia
Unfortunately I still find real armor better, though I suppose I can play with it more. Will have to pick it up anyway to get Enrichment. :(
>>Arbiter's Stylus
AMAZING. So in theme for the spell and yet also incredibly useful. I immediately ran out and practiced on some broodlings, and I killed them with it! One thing to keep in mind with Traders is that we are super tanks. Two secondary defenses + defense buffs, and two tert offenses + no offensive buffs (well, unless you count Finesse for +Agi). We don't even have a Debilitation that stuns/immobilizes/webs/makes prone. So anything to increase our accuracy is a huge deal.
>>Starcrash / Blur / Avren Aevareae / MOM
Wonderful.
If any new spells are in the works, I pray that they affect offensive capacity. :)
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/27/2019 12:47 AM CST
>>Would a change be considered? There's already a natural cool down since you can't invoke the tessera while it's frosty. Could this be dropped to a 1 step decrease and keep or increase the trading experience rewarded?
Not at this time. Dealing with the Negotiants is meant to be severe.
>>Curious why you did it this way. Can't we just release it and then recast to refresh hitpoints? I suppose there is the potential aura cost.
Trabe Chalice can't be released. Hitpoint refreshing isn't allowed because it's even more frontloaded than Manifest Force.
>>So in theme for the spell and yet also incredibly useful.
I'm glad you agree! In this batch, I'm particularly happy with the Arbiter's Stylus upgrade.
>>We don't even have a Debilitation that stuns/immobilizes/webs/makes prone.
It's a deliberate gap in the Trader spellbooks. Not as a restriction, but because Speculate Coin is too good to compete with. That said, there are other Debilitation spells planned.
GM Grejuva
Not at this time. Dealing with the Negotiants is meant to be severe.
>>Curious why you did it this way. Can't we just release it and then recast to refresh hitpoints? I suppose there is the potential aura cost.
Trabe Chalice can't be released. Hitpoint refreshing isn't allowed because it's even more frontloaded than Manifest Force.
>>So in theme for the spell and yet also incredibly useful.
I'm glad you agree! In this batch, I'm particularly happy with the Arbiter's Stylus upgrade.
>>We don't even have a Debilitation that stuns/immobilizes/webs/makes prone.
It's a deliberate gap in the Trader spellbooks. Not as a restriction, but because Speculate Coin is too good to compete with. That said, there are other Debilitation spells planned.
GM Grejuva
SHIFT3
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/27/2019 09:15 AM CST
> Not at this time. Dealing with the Negotiants is meant to be severe.
Fair enough, but I do wish traders would actually get better at trading with them as they gain experience.
> AMAZING. So in theme for the spell and yet also incredibly useful. I immediately ran out and practiced on some broodlings, and I killed them with it!
> >>Starcrash / Blur / Avren Aevareae / MOM
I just want to say ditto to all of this, and toss STC into the mix. I can go into all of the reasons why STC is suddenly viable where it wasn't, but I won't. Just suffice it to say, I love the change.
PRIMEQ
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/27/2019 02:01 PM CST
>>It's a deliberate gap in the Trader spellbooks. Not as a restriction, but because Speculate Coin is too good to compete with. That said, there are other Debilitation spells planned.
Wow, I completely forgot about Speculate Coin. I suppose I'm just a mage at heart.
Is there any way it could be reworked into a spell or at least something more Starlight themed for those of us who prefer that? I mean, maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot if it's that good and doesn't require mana or prep time, I just find it a little cheesy to be throwing coins at people. Or maybe we could have both the speculate and a spell, but not stack them?
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
Wow, I completely forgot about Speculate Coin. I suppose I'm just a mage at heart.
Is there any way it could be reworked into a spell or at least something more Starlight themed for those of us who prefer that? I mean, maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot if it's that good and doesn't require mana or prep time, I just find it a little cheesy to be throwing coins at people. Or maybe we could have both the speculate and a spell, but not stack them?
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
SHIFT3
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/27/2019 08:11 PM CST
> Is there any way it could be reworked into a spell or at least something more Starlight themed for those of us who prefer that?
What? No. Why? Stop trying to nerf poor coin, speculates have been through enough. It's fine.
> I mean, maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot if it's that good and doesn't require mana or prep time, I just find it a little cheesy to be throwing coins at people.
I like that a magic tert guild doesn't rely only on magic abilities to do their thing. It's thematic, with all traders in DR being bad traders, throwing away money and such, and it's an ability in a guild that is sorely lacking combat abilities for an armor secondary.
> Or maybe we could have both the speculate and a spell, but not stack them?
This, and it sounds like it's what they have in mind with the debilitation spells. I'm selfish. I want the spells and coin, so please don't touch coin :)
PRIMEQ
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/28/2019 03:06 AM CST
Sorry! Maybe an optional reskin of coin to be throwing shards of crystal or something?
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
SHIFT3
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/28/2019 08:40 AM CST
Phew! Okay. That makes more sense. So you're thinking of something like breaking a moon blade for moonies. They break it, and they have little fragments floating around them that can fill in for TKT/TKS ammo, and it changes the damage type. That sounds really cool cantrip.
PRIMEQ
Re: Trader Magic Review
11/28/2019 08:21 PM CST
Yes, that's one idea. Or to make it more Trader themed, some other possibilities:
1) The Trader is just "skinning" the coin to make it look like a crystal, using Illusion magic.
2) The Trader is using a simpler form of crystal manifestation, much like Crystal Dart, but adds an illusory light so that the primary effect is to blind/stun the target.
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
1) The Trader is just "skinning" the coin to make it look like a crystal, using Illusion magic.
2) The Trader is using a simpler form of crystal manifestation, much like Crystal Dart, but adds an illusory light so that the primary effect is to blind/stun the target.
- Navesi
The First Land Herald -- Zoluren's newspaper. https://elanthipedia.play.net/The_First_Land_Herald
AERATHOR
Re: Trader Magic Review
01/22/2020 02:57 PM CST
>>Blur
>>* Refreshing with same or higher integrity doesn't cost starlight aura.
I was curious if there were any plans to make it so someone in the group with a trader was able to use their aura to say cast Blur when there was not enough celestial light available?
As a moon mage eager to fill gaps in my spell book I realized quickly that without access to the aura, competing with the typical lunar caveats of having the moons present while also hoping to avoid cloud cover isn't practical. For instance the last week due to in game weather there has been a remarkably low window to cast Blur.
Also, would there be any chance of considering to add an item to an event or quest that would essentially give the wearer a low level of aura they could use on a limited basis to be able to make up for not being a trader? Or better still, it would be a nice QoL change for everyone if you were able to use a Glowing Iron Fragment if there wasn't enough light available to cast trader scroll spells.
Overall just have to say as a lunar magic enthusiast, its one of the best and most interesting spell-books ever.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
>>* Refreshing with same or higher integrity doesn't cost starlight aura.
I was curious if there were any plans to make it so someone in the group with a trader was able to use their aura to say cast Blur when there was not enough celestial light available?
As a moon mage eager to fill gaps in my spell book I realized quickly that without access to the aura, competing with the typical lunar caveats of having the moons present while also hoping to avoid cloud cover isn't practical. For instance the last week due to in game weather there has been a remarkably low window to cast Blur.
Also, would there be any chance of considering to add an item to an event or quest that would essentially give the wearer a low level of aura they could use on a limited basis to be able to make up for not being a trader? Or better still, it would be a nice QoL change for everyone if you were able to use a Glowing Iron Fragment if there wasn't enough light available to cast trader scroll spells.
Overall just have to say as a lunar magic enthusiast, its one of the best and most interesting spell-books ever.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Trader Magic Review
12/01/2020 07:43 PM CST
>>I was curious if there were any plans to make it so someone in the group with a trader was able to use their aura to say cast Blur when there was not enough celestial light available?
This is an obscenely late reply, but I've been gone from the forums a bit and it's still potentially relevant.
No, but...
Initially there were tentative plans to let Traders transfer Starlight Aura to Moon Mages (or others, really, but it's only super relevant for Moon Mages) and possibly include additional cast options related to this for Moonies, such as a Starlight Aura injected option for Moonblade.
The idea here is that Moon Mages would not be able to gain Starlight Aura naturally, they'd have to deal with Traders to acquire the resource if they wanted to benefit from it.
It got dropped at the time to reduce project bloat and because we were uncertain if this level of cross-guild requirements (Moonies becoming reliant on Traders for advanced spell options) would be desirable at all from the Moonie side of things.
I dunno. I'm willing to consider it still, it's not a particularly troublesome technical project so much as it's a potentially undesirable one.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
This is an obscenely late reply, but I've been gone from the forums a bit and it's still potentially relevant.
No, but...
Initially there were tentative plans to let Traders transfer Starlight Aura to Moon Mages (or others, really, but it's only super relevant for Moon Mages) and possibly include additional cast options related to this for Moonies, such as a Starlight Aura injected option for Moonblade.
The idea here is that Moon Mages would not be able to gain Starlight Aura naturally, they'd have to deal with Traders to acquire the resource if they wanted to benefit from it.
It got dropped at the time to reduce project bloat and because we were uncertain if this level of cross-guild requirements (Moonies becoming reliant on Traders for advanced spell options) would be desirable at all from the Moonie side of things.
I dunno. I'm willing to consider it still, it's not a particularly troublesome technical project so much as it's a potentially undesirable one.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Trader Magic Review
12/02/2020 12:19 AM CST
>I dunno. I'm willing to consider it still, it's not a particularly troublesome technical project so much as it's a potentially undesirable one.
On the one hand I think it's cool, cross-guild interaction and encouraging player cooperation.
On the other hand I recognize it just means even more people will make F2P Trader bots exclusively to give Moon Mages starlight aura, and that ruins a lot of the fun.
On the one hand I think it's cool, cross-guild interaction and encouraging player cooperation.
On the other hand I recognize it just means even more people will make F2P Trader bots exclusively to give Moon Mages starlight aura, and that ruins a lot of the fun.
GRIM45
Re: Trader Magic Review
12/02/2020 12:12 PM CST
>On the other hand I recognize it just means even more people will make F2P Trader bots exclusively to give Moon Mages starlight aura, and that ruins a lot of the fun.
Can't be done. Trader, Necros and Empaths are not available to F2P
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Can't be done. Trader, Necros and Empaths are not available to F2P
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
SORTIK
Re: Trader Magic Review
12/06/2020 11:00 AM CST
I love the idea of collaborative magic in general. I'd like to see everyone capable of achieving more advanced magic by cooperating with others, though ideally in a way that doesn't use a bunch of spell slots.... Either way, it's a neat idea; it would absolutely result in complaints, but nothing new there.
