Hello, guildmates,
I've started crunching some numbers for how I think the economy (Particularly the Crossing bazaari scene) works. I plan to write everything up and cover all the player-made markets, expanding the post I made in the Cleric's folder a couple months ago, but I thought folks made have some input. http://www.hnoiyika.com/Dirge/DRPriceGuide.xls
Comments? Suggestions? Flames?
- Nyken
DAREL
KCROWELL
Re: Preliminary Data on Pricing Goods
02/04/2004 10:22 AM CST
>>I've started crunching some numbers for how I think the economy (Particularly the Crossing bazaari scene) works. I plan to write everything up and cover all the player-made markets, expanding the post I made in the Cleric's folder a couple months ago, but I thought folks made have some input.
Well, I have to say I disagree with this being done. I list like this could cause prices to freeze, which isnt good for the trader's end of the transaction.
If your list becomes wide spread, customers will begin to expect all traders to either adhere to the prices described by your list, or charge less. If you compile a list of what you think people are charging and make it public, it will signifigantly prevent traders from being able to set their own prices. Personally, I would rather continue to set my own prices, based on my own speculation than have a list out there that people are consulting as an absolute and expecting me to adhere to.
You are of course free to do what you want though. I just ask that if you do make a list, put in some kind of disclamer that enables traders to continue to set their own prices. Even with a disclaimer, the list will make it more difficult for us to have freedom in setting prices, but it's better than nothing.
~Teloxius
Well, I have to say I disagree with this being done. I list like this could cause prices to freeze, which isnt good for the trader's end of the transaction.
If your list becomes wide spread, customers will begin to expect all traders to either adhere to the prices described by your list, or charge less. If you compile a list of what you think people are charging and make it public, it will signifigantly prevent traders from being able to set their own prices. Personally, I would rather continue to set my own prices, based on my own speculation than have a list out there that people are consulting as an absolute and expecting me to adhere to.
You are of course free to do what you want though. I just ask that if you do make a list, put in some kind of disclamer that enables traders to continue to set their own prices. Even with a disclaimer, the list will make it more difficult for us to have freedom in setting prices, but it's better than nothing.
~Teloxius
DAREL
Re: Preliminary Data on Pricing Goods
02/04/2004 11:38 AM CST
I understand your point, and I tried to reflect what the prices actually are for the items I chose, rather than what I think they should be, and I went by what I saw on the tables of various traders for the ranges. "Fluxation in Markup" attempts to show that trader prices fall within an expanding scale of minimum and maximum prices.
Tagos are the best example--Some people have them on their table at 30 plat, but customers at my tables complain that I'm making too much money by not selling them at 15 plat like others. I'm not trying to say that either 15 plat or 30 plat is correct, I'm trying to acknowledge both.
I'm not trying be predictive at all, although I do have my own conclusions about things. I'm trying to show what's happening on it's own already in DR, and ideally, make a case for more lower-priced goods for traders to resell. I'm not sure traders should pull prices out of thin air, especially to create wild contracditions trader to trader, that just leads to resentment on the part of the customer, feeling a trader has taken advantage of his ignorance.
Tagos are the best example--Some people have them on their table at 30 plat, but customers at my tables complain that I'm making too much money by not selling them at 15 plat like others. I'm not trying to say that either 15 plat or 30 plat is correct, I'm trying to acknowledge both.
I'm not trying be predictive at all, although I do have my own conclusions about things. I'm trying to show what's happening on it's own already in DR, and ideally, make a case for more lower-priced goods for traders to resell. I'm not sure traders should pull prices out of thin air, especially to create wild contracditions trader to trader, that just leads to resentment on the part of the customer, feeling a trader has taken advantage of his ignorance.
KCROWELL
Re: Preliminary Data on Pricing Goods
02/04/2004 12:51 PM CST
Im worried about customers seeing extreems on either end of the scale and automatically assuming that they should hold out for the lower price. Im equally worried about traders using the list to their advantage and purposefully charging below the average in order to undersell, using knowledge that they otherwise would not have (without the list).
>>Some people have them on their table at 30 plat, but customers at my tables complain that I'm making too much money by not selling them at 15 plat like others.
Some of us arent even capable of charging the minimum price and still turning profit. For example, the minimum price for a tago you say is 15plats. Here's my problem with that price:
> get tago
The wholesaler turns his attention to you.
With a sly grin he says, "I can let you have a finely balanced tago for 185679 Kronars. You can BUY the item if you like."
As you can see, the minimum is less than I would be able pay to aquire the tago in the first place. I am not skilled enough to get a lower price.
>>I'm not sure traders should pull prices out of thin air, especially to create wild contracditions trader to trader
If they do this, the market will have its own, natural reaction. There's also nothing wrong having competition which is currently, the true driving force of the market, besides item supply vs. demand. If we are not careful, supply vs. demand will become a secondary or even non-existent factor in determining prices as the List would take its place. Elanthia is currently a pre-capatalist society and and its merchant economy relies heavily upon competition and supply vs. demand. I think that it would be detrimental to the spirit of our guild to do something that risks changing this.
Don't get me wrong though, I am interested in seeing your statistical writeup of our economy but Im also concerned about the effect that it will have on the economy, or in other words, whether or not it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. The list will generate theory on the economy, the theory is what will be predictive.
I think that the neccessary precautions should be taken to avoid this side effect. I have a few ideas on what those precautions might be:
1. Limit the the number of items included in the study. Dont include ALL of the trader shop items. This would limit the potential price freezing to only those items listed.
2. Date the entries of each item's data. If anything, this will limit the duration of a price freeze as people wouldnt neccisarily expect that a trader would adhere to the way the market was a few years ago.
3. Provide a disclaimer about any extreems in the list being rare occurances, especially the minimum extreemes.
4. Say something about how people should buy an item if they want it and can afford it at the time it's up for sale. Not to hold out for a lower price, as that day might never come.
5. Encourage the list's readers to haggle if they find a price that they consider unreasonable instead of just being rude to the trader and accusing them of ripping them off.
6. Be ready to remove the list from the public if it generates too many expectations on the part of the customer that prices should be lower.
~Teloxius
>>Some people have them on their table at 30 plat, but customers at my tables complain that I'm making too much money by not selling them at 15 plat like others.
Some of us arent even capable of charging the minimum price and still turning profit. For example, the minimum price for a tago you say is 15plats. Here's my problem with that price:
> get tago
The wholesaler turns his attention to you.
With a sly grin he says, "I can let you have a finely balanced tago for 185679 Kronars. You can BUY the item if you like."
As you can see, the minimum is less than I would be able pay to aquire the tago in the first place. I am not skilled enough to get a lower price.
>>I'm not sure traders should pull prices out of thin air, especially to create wild contracditions trader to trader
If they do this, the market will have its own, natural reaction. There's also nothing wrong having competition which is currently, the true driving force of the market, besides item supply vs. demand. If we are not careful, supply vs. demand will become a secondary or even non-existent factor in determining prices as the List would take its place. Elanthia is currently a pre-capatalist society and and its merchant economy relies heavily upon competition and supply vs. demand. I think that it would be detrimental to the spirit of our guild to do something that risks changing this.
Don't get me wrong though, I am interested in seeing your statistical writeup of our economy but Im also concerned about the effect that it will have on the economy, or in other words, whether or not it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. The list will generate theory on the economy, the theory is what will be predictive.
I think that the neccessary precautions should be taken to avoid this side effect. I have a few ideas on what those precautions might be:
1. Limit the the number of items included in the study. Dont include ALL of the trader shop items. This would limit the potential price freezing to only those items listed.
2. Date the entries of each item's data. If anything, this will limit the duration of a price freeze as people wouldnt neccisarily expect that a trader would adhere to the way the market was a few years ago.
3. Provide a disclaimer about any extreems in the list being rare occurances, especially the minimum extreemes.
4. Say something about how people should buy an item if they want it and can afford it at the time it's up for sale. Not to hold out for a lower price, as that day might never come.
5. Encourage the list's readers to haggle if they find a price that they consider unreasonable instead of just being rude to the trader and accusing them of ripping them off.
6. Be ready to remove the list from the public if it generates too many expectations on the part of the customer that prices should be lower.
~Teloxius
GOSSFORD
Re: Preliminary Data on Pricing Goods
02/04/2004 02:42 PM CST
PHANTOM00I
Re: Preliminary Data on Pricing Goods
02/04/2004 07:04 PM CST
"shouldnt we just sell stuff for tips?"
Ha ha ha, I havent laughed so hard in ages. That Gossford was an ideal come back.
Huzzah Gossford!!!
Ha ha ha, I havent laughed so hard in ages. That Gossford was an ideal come back.
Huzzah Gossford!!!
