Godrich,
Is it at all possible to post a few economic statistics concering ingame wealth? I'm not sure if this has been requested or posted before, but it I was just tossing a few questions around in my head the other day and some solid numbers would be interesting to view. If it requires too much time and work to answer these questions, I completely understand, as time is limited to a GM Guru, especially when there are much more pressing concerns. However if you could respond that would be great.
1) What are the 10 highest bank accounts ingame and what guilds do these bank accounts belong to?
2) On average what percentage of the character population has over 100 plat, over 1000 plat, over 10,000 plat, etc.?
3) How does each guild compare comparatively to one another (Percentage wise) in terms of platinums held in a bank account.
4) What guild class has the highest income flow, both overall and in terms of percentage.
(Note: I understand that if you were to reply to these requests, that if you were to reply to these requests that any findings would still just be a cursory glance at wealth, as there are several variables. Examples being multiple characters, purchasing of plats for RL money, and of course the value of items.)
My next list of questions are for traders, that care to answer.
1) Is there any skill equation that determines what you can average on your contracts? I.E. How much does charisma/trading experience impact your contract profit?
2) What do you (regardless of circle) average per contract on provincial trading? What do you average per contract on interprovincial contract trading?
3) While trading contracts provincially, which province do you prefer?
Thanks all.
M.V.
OUTLAW
GOSSFORD
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 12:07 PM CST
1) Is there any skill equation that determines what you can average on your contracts? I.E. How much does charisma/trading experience impact your contract profit? No one has figured this out. Charisma helps but not really as much as people think it does.
2) What do you (regardless of circle) average per contract on provincial trading? What do you average per contract on interprovincial contract trading?
3 plat average on therengia, 8 plat average interprovince.
3) While trading contracts provincially, which province do you prefer?
depends. if I am after experience then therengia. if after coin I do Zoluren/illithi/interprovince mixed together.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
2) What do you (regardless of circle) average per contract on provincial trading? What do you average per contract on interprovincial contract trading?
3 plat average on therengia, 8 plat average interprovince.
3) While trading contracts provincially, which province do you prefer?
depends. if I am after experience then therengia. if after coin I do Zoluren/illithi/interprovince mixed together.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
REASONMJ
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 01:25 PM CST
>1) Is there any skill equation that determines what you can average on your contracts? I.E. How much does charisma/trading experience impact your contract profit?
No one knows the equations, and there even different theories about which helps more between charisma, trading skill, and circle. I totally forget what I used to think the main factor was, I think maybe it was circle. Others would know better though.
>2) What do you (regardless of circle) average per contract on provincial trading? What do you average per contract on interprovincial contract trading?
People always ask how much I make per contract on average, but it's actually a horrible way to measure. Really the only answer I can give is between 2 gold and 4 plat. It totally depends on which outposts the contract is between. The best way to measure is profit per hour of trading, which for me is usually around 10 plat kronars an hour. It's generally about that much whether I'm trading local Zolurens, local Therengias (slightly less) or interprovs combined with local zolurens (slightly more).
>3) While trading contracts provincially, which province do you prefer?
Definitely zoluren for me.
Apu
No one knows the equations, and there even different theories about which helps more between charisma, trading skill, and circle. I totally forget what I used to think the main factor was, I think maybe it was circle. Others would know better though.
>2) What do you (regardless of circle) average per contract on provincial trading? What do you average per contract on interprovincial contract trading?
People always ask how much I make per contract on average, but it's actually a horrible way to measure. Really the only answer I can give is between 2 gold and 4 plat. It totally depends on which outposts the contract is between. The best way to measure is profit per hour of trading, which for me is usually around 10 plat kronars an hour. It's generally about that much whether I'm trading local Zolurens, local Therengias (slightly less) or interprovs combined with local zolurens (slightly more).
>3) While trading contracts provincially, which province do you prefer?
Definitely zoluren for me.
Apu
BRIGGSB
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 02:18 PM CST
1. What Apu and Gossford said. Contracts amounts are affected by Circle, Trading, and Charisma. In what amounts is perhaps a mystery that we will never know, because of the huge range that contract amounts can cover.
2. Like Apu pointed out, per contract is a bad bad measure. Per hour is a much better way to measure profit, and allows a comparison between other Guilds monetary intake as well. As for amount, see below.
3. Since being back, I've discovered why I always used to prefer Ilithi. I pull in a bit over 5 plat dokoras an hour, and I'm satsified with that. Like Gossford said, Trading for coin is best done with Interprovincials mixed with intraprovincials along the way. My problem is that I'd like to be able to leave the game with less than an hour's notice, so I don't normally do interprovs. I'd thought that Ilithi wouldn't teach anything at my level, but I find I'm able to lock Trading just fine and the money is decent. So, I prefer Ilithi trading.
Lokta
2. Like Apu pointed out, per contract is a bad bad measure. Per hour is a much better way to measure profit, and allows a comparison between other Guilds monetary intake as well. As for amount, see below.
3. Since being back, I've discovered why I always used to prefer Ilithi. I pull in a bit over 5 plat dokoras an hour, and I'm satsified with that. Like Gossford said, Trading for coin is best done with Interprovincials mixed with intraprovincials along the way. My problem is that I'd like to be able to leave the game with less than an hour's notice, so I don't normally do interprovs. I'd thought that Ilithi wouldn't teach anything at my level, but I find I'm able to lock Trading just fine and the money is decent. So, I prefer Ilithi trading.
Lokta
DA-CHEESE
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 02:28 PM CST
1) I'm almost certain that trading skill doesn't affect your contract profits, but it is affected by circle, charisma, number of contracts ran from that outpost and probably also a factor based on how quickly you've run contracts to/from that outpost recently. I'll probably post more later about this.
2) At 50th circle I make roughly 5 plat per hour trading contracts in Zoluren, I don't really keep track, I do it for experience.
3) I trade in Zoluren for the experience, and occasionally run a couple Therengia or IPs just for variation. I might try out Ilithi now based on what Lokta is saying.
Azhag
2) At 50th circle I make roughly 5 plat per hour trading contracts in Zoluren, I don't really keep track, I do it for experience.
3) I trade in Zoluren for the experience, and occasionally run a couple Therengia or IPs just for variation. I might try out Ilithi now based on what Lokta is saying.
Azhag
DAREL
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 02:36 PM CST
Circle seems to be the bigggest factor in profits. Nyken was 12th with 205 in trading, and was still getting profits in the low golds in Zoluren (I started playing him after all the contract tweaks). I didn't really work his trading until I had to (around 44th circle), but I noticed my profits jumped with every circle I gained. At 50th and 287 in trading, I can pull in 2-4 plat lirum on a Muspari/Riverhaven contract. Charisma probably has an effect, I did go from about 16 in charisma to 38, but I wasn't paying that much attention.
I prefer trading in Therengia, because I love Therengia. Fornsted is my second favorite place in the game (after Dirge). I also like being able to work my lore skills and socialize on the barges, and gambling. Because of the long distances, the contract sizes seem to be bigger than Zoluren (though they take longer, so it probably evens out).
I want to try Ilithi too now!
- Nyken
I prefer trading in Therengia, because I love Therengia. Fornsted is my second favorite place in the game (after Dirge). I also like being able to work my lore skills and socialize on the barges, and gambling. Because of the long distances, the contract sizes seem to be bigger than Zoluren (though they take longer, so it probably evens out).
I want to try Ilithi too now!
- Nyken
GOSSFORD
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 02:44 PM CST
I think it was determined that charisma affected the difference between cost of goods and total value. also affects the amount of dues.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
SOUTHERK
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 06:31 PM CST
Therengia is the place to be
Farm living is the life for me
Land spreading out,
so far and wide
Keep Ilithi,
just give me that countryside.
Ilithi is only good on wall ranks. The amounts are pitiful vs. Therengia and the distances do not produce a consistent learning rate. That's my opinion of it. I've done 90% of my last 20 circles in Therengia, and it wasn't because I am a glutton for punishment either. Zoluren ain't so bad at these levels, but Therengia and Interprovince are the best routes in these ranges.
Circle is what makes the most in contract prices, Charisma plays a very minor role and as Godrich has stated before, it is because the way the old system worked; contracts were not supposed to be the end all to learning and gaining coin with Traders so the system was not meant to handle it past a certain point to any great degree; nothing you would notice at levels past 30th or so. There was going to be other avenues for high circle traders to take but here we are still with contracts; I'm fine with that.
(I'm personally fond of Hvaral over Fornsted. Hvaral has a stable.)
Gidske
Farm living is the life for me
Land spreading out,
so far and wide
Keep Ilithi,
just give me that countryside.
Ilithi is only good on wall ranks. The amounts are pitiful vs. Therengia and the distances do not produce a consistent learning rate. That's my opinion of it. I've done 90% of my last 20 circles in Therengia, and it wasn't because I am a glutton for punishment either. Zoluren ain't so bad at these levels, but Therengia and Interprovince are the best routes in these ranges.
Circle is what makes the most in contract prices, Charisma plays a very minor role and as Godrich has stated before, it is because the way the old system worked; contracts were not supposed to be the end all to learning and gaining coin with Traders so the system was not meant to handle it past a certain point to any great degree; nothing you would notice at levels past 30th or so. There was going to be other avenues for high circle traders to take but here we are still with contracts; I'm fine with that.
(I'm personally fond of Hvaral over Fornsted. Hvaral has a stable.)
Gidske
DA-CHEESE
Re: (no subject)
01/29/2004 08:50 PM CST
>Ilithi is only good on wall ranks.
I just finished up a wall rank today and headed down to Ilithi to check it out. I was able to hit mindlock once and stay very muddled-perplexed most of the time, which isn't bad on a post-wall with nearly 40 in mentals. If I turned in 2 contracts at a time to Darkling Wood it would usually be around bewildered. I think Ilithi is decent for upper-level learning now that DW has been added, and should serve as a viable alternative.
Azhag
I just finished up a wall rank today and headed down to Ilithi to check it out. I was able to hit mindlock once and stay very muddled-perplexed most of the time, which isn't bad on a post-wall with nearly 40 in mentals. If I turned in 2 contracts at a time to Darkling Wood it would usually be around bewildered. I think Ilithi is decent for upper-level learning now that DW has been added, and should serve as a viable alternative.
Azhag
DR-GODRICH
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 08:59 AM CST
G'day,
Statistics on bank accounts are fairly problematic because of how the system handles storing that information.
The one stat that sticks out in my mind is that whenever I look at bank accounts above about 3000 platinums total, there are more traders in that group than their percentage in the total population. Meaning that traders are usually 5% or so of the population as a whole, but are more like 10 to 20% of the population with bank accounts totalling more than 3000 plat. So while an individual trader is not the richest person, or wasn't last time I checked, as a group traders do tend to accumulate more money than other guilds.
Regards,
Godrich de'Finchal
"You are like a mouse arguing with an owl. You think the owl is wrong, he thinks you are dinner."
http://webpages.charter.net/plblack/trader.html
Statistics on bank accounts are fairly problematic because of how the system handles storing that information.
The one stat that sticks out in my mind is that whenever I look at bank accounts above about 3000 platinums total, there are more traders in that group than their percentage in the total population. Meaning that traders are usually 5% or so of the population as a whole, but are more like 10 to 20% of the population with bank accounts totalling more than 3000 plat. So while an individual trader is not the richest person, or wasn't last time I checked, as a group traders do tend to accumulate more money than other guilds.
Regards,
Godrich de'Finchal
"You are like a mouse arguing with an owl. You think the owl is wrong, he thinks you are dinner."
http://webpages.charter.net/plblack/trader.html
GRIM45
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 09:46 AM CST
>>>So while an individual trader is not the richest person, or wasn't last time I checked, as a group traders do tend to accumulate more money than other guilds.
I'd wager that because Traders don't really need to spend money on armor/weapons/healing/repairs has alot to do with that.
Blue Fire
I'd wager that because Traders don't really need to spend money on armor/weapons/healing/repairs has alot to do with that.
Blue Fire
KCROWELL
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 10:06 AM CST
I think that it has a lot to do with the fact that a trader could make several plats an hour for several hours on end if he/she so desired. Not every guild can just decide to go out and earn plats at the continued rate that we can. When I became a trader, I was already richer than any of my other characters (which I had played a lot longer) in the first 15 circles. At circle 23, I have 20 times more than any of my characters had during the height of their careers. Maybe it was that I was bad at making money in other guilds but on the other hand, maybe it's just very easy for traders to make money.
~Teloxius
~Teloxius
GOSSFORD
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 10:09 AM CST
<<I'd wager that because Traders don't really need to spend money on armor/weapons/healing/repairs has alot to do with that.>>
I repair my shield 3 times a week, tip empaths a plat, ect.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
I repair my shield 3 times a week, tip empaths a plat, ect.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
GRIM45
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 10:12 AM CST
>>>I repair my shield 3 times a week, tip empaths a plat, ect.
Pardon me for assuming everyone would be intelligent enough to realize that "don't really need to" dosn't mean "none of them".
Blue Fire
Pardon me for assuming everyone would be intelligent enough to realize that "don't really need to" dosn't mean "none of them".
Blue Fire
KCROWELL
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 10:22 AM CST
what's wrong with cruising the boards just looking for something to contradict? It seems like a standard practice to me. :::ducks:::
~Teloxius
~Teloxius
GOSSFORD
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 11:14 AM CST
<<what's wrong with cruising the boards just looking for something to contradict? It seems like a standard practice to me. :::ducks:::>>
Its the only way I stay awake at work
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
Its the only way I stay awake at work
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
KCROWELL
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 12:08 PM CST
Gossford, You're Avatar also fits that type of personality. The look on that thing's face is either the look a theif gives after running out of the room upon getting caught stealing OR someone turning around and saying something contradictory.
~Teloxius
~Teloxius
BRIGGSB
Re: (no subject)
01/30/2004 07:59 PM CST
<<Ilithi is only good on wall ranks. The amounts are pitiful vs. Therengia and the distances do not produce a consistent learning rate. That's my opinion of it.>>
Gidske -
I had thought this would be the case also, when I came back. It wasn't until I tried it out that I discovered that I was able to learn extremely well. Unless you're otherwise tied to Therengia, I would suggest giving it a try now with Darkling. I spent time in Theren, and I did like Theren (Riverhaven, though, has always been and will forever be a stinking cesspit, in my opinion, but I don't want to get into Province vs. Province). I've always liked Shard better, but that's just me.
I did run one contract from each of the "new" (to me) outposts in Therengia - Fornsted, Hvaral, and Muspar'i. I couldn't stand running contracts in a province where the two outposts at either end are on the otherside of a 20 minute barge. And I was robbed blind in Muspar'i, but that was my own fault. I'll stick to Shard.
<<Fornsted is my second favorite place in the game (after Dirge).>>
I like Fornsted too, except for those evil seordmars. Of course, I'm biased, because I discovered it. Ahhh, the glory days.
Lokta
Gidske -
I had thought this would be the case also, when I came back. It wasn't until I tried it out that I discovered that I was able to learn extremely well. Unless you're otherwise tied to Therengia, I would suggest giving it a try now with Darkling. I spent time in Theren, and I did like Theren (Riverhaven, though, has always been and will forever be a stinking cesspit, in my opinion, but I don't want to get into Province vs. Province). I've always liked Shard better, but that's just me.
I did run one contract from each of the "new" (to me) outposts in Therengia - Fornsted, Hvaral, and Muspar'i. I couldn't stand running contracts in a province where the two outposts at either end are on the otherside of a 20 minute barge. And I was robbed blind in Muspar'i, but that was my own fault. I'll stick to Shard.
<<Fornsted is my second favorite place in the game (after Dirge).>>
I like Fornsted too, except for those evil seordmars. Of course, I'm biased, because I discovered it. Ahhh, the glory days.
Lokta
SOUTHERK
Re: (no subject)
01/31/2004 06:16 PM CST
Have completed 93 contracts with this guild. - Darkling Wood
I have tried it with Darkling Wood. Admittedly, it has the fewest run contracts of any outpost in the realms for me, with the second one coming it 409 with Muspar'i. I was running Darkling Wood about a week after it opened and really, I just wasn't impressed with the money or the learning. I was at first until I realized I was on a wall rank. I saw a noticeable drop after that, meaning my Trading seemed to be in a state of Clear to Learning more often than I care for it to be when doing contracts.
Gidske
I have tried it with Darkling Wood. Admittedly, it has the fewest run contracts of any outpost in the realms for me, with the second one coming it 409 with Muspar'i. I was running Darkling Wood about a week after it opened and really, I just wasn't impressed with the money or the learning. I was at first until I realized I was on a wall rank. I saw a noticeable drop after that, meaning my Trading seemed to be in a state of Clear to Learning more often than I care for it to be when doing contracts.
Gidske
