I don't own a trader, and I read the boards here. I also feel the way that person feels to a degree. Normally I ask the gem seller the value of gems before I'll ever hand over to a trader and want what I was given to the exact value back because I've been ripped off before with a few traders I've happened upon in the shops, even selling lockpicks for a set rate for so many only to hold out one or two and log out when I objected to the count of items after I had paid them. I've also watched someone with no coins on them sell a pouch for me and somehow end up with coins with us the only two in the room. I've been given higher rates on app's from the gem seller but let a trader sell my pouch for less than had I sold it myself, and tipped them well over a plat per pouch. Not everyone I've ran across rips me off but the one's that do I highlight and never let them touch anything I have again, nor do I buy from them either. I understand it is a trade, and you are doing this for money that you make for your living and for skills to move up in the guild however I need my coins too because I risk my life to make them. The mark up on some items is completely crazy for something I get a certain app on for 214 there is a tag that reads 70000 on it, that to me is just the same as cheating me out of coins if I'm stupid enough to pay you that for it though I guess I deserve to be ripped off... My viewpoint is if you take money from the gem seller for a app you got that is bigger than you whisper or tell me you're not a trader and you should drop that guild and find a new one. If you take out your own cut, and then on top of that I tip you a plat for one pouch that brings me 2 plat or a little over that then I've not only ripped myself off my paying you for your service I've been ripped off by you because you're a greedy sap. If I go in a shop and don't feel I wish that person to sell my pouch, heck no I don't let them cause I might get more if you sell it but you could cheat me out of it, and with the tip I've actually lost money not gained any. So don't come out like you are doing everyone standing there selling one gem at a time a favor, cause for some people it's more of a pain to have to have someone else sell the gems for us than for us to sell them ourselves. -Not to come off harshly directed toward one but I've been burned by a few of your guild and they always log out instead of letting me call them on the cheating they do in the game.
GIA11
GOSSFORD
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
03/31/2004 08:14 AM CST
Just take your gems to Rossmans. Then you wont have to worry about it.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
LINTHEAD4504
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
03/31/2004 08:44 AM CST
I really don't feel right skimming from gem pouches, but from a trader's point of view, we are offering a service to everyone by Selling the pouches in bulk. Sometimes when people bring in pouches worth 30k plus then don't tip, we're upset. Sure we're getting some learning from it, but so do empaths when they heal you and almost everyone tips them. I do not skim, but I can see why some might. This is one of our abilities, a service we offer to the people and we feel we should make some money by spending all our time in a gem shop waiting for customers.
As far as spending 70000 on something that app for 214, well sometimes items are worth more than they appraise for. The item is only worth as much as someone will pay. Moneybelts are a good example. They are worth alot more than they appraise for, so just because it would app for 12000, does not mean it will be sold for that price.
Eddrik
As far as spending 70000 on something that app for 214, well sometimes items are worth more than they appraise for. The item is only worth as much as someone will pay. Moneybelts are a good example. They are worth alot more than they appraise for, so just because it would app for 12000, does not mean it will be sold for that price.
Eddrik
XYILLIA
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
03/31/2004 09:24 AM CST
How do you know they didn't have coin on them?
Getting Married? Need help?
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Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
Richard Anthony
Getting Married? Need help?
Ask me!
Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall.
Richard Anthony
GIA11
KCROWELL
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/01/2004 06:07 PM CST
Just so everyone knows, when I am in the gem shop doing pouches, I ALWAYS pay the customer 110% of the base value. Anything that I get from the appraiser above that is mine to keep. I do not hide this fact, and I always tell people all about it when they inquire about what I am doing.
I started doing this because of the large portion of Elanthia that does not tip (according to two recent 100+ pouch selling studies) or tips way too low to make it worth a trader's time sitting in the gem shop. Because I'm into RPing my trader as a true business person, the fact that I gain trading skill in the gem shop is irrelevent, money is the only thing that counts.
I look at gem selling as a business. I buy low, sell high. Everyone that deals with me makes money, except maybe the dwarven appraiser, I really dont know what he does with all of those rock crystals and other worthless gems that he typically buys.
Some people might call what I'm doing "skimming" but most are perfectly fine with it once I explain it to them and once they realize that they are still profiting from using my services. If they are unhappy with how I do business, they could always wait around for another trader that may/may not be capable of getting a 10%+ bonus. They could also sell their pouches at rossmans for no bonus at all.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
I started doing this because of the large portion of Elanthia that does not tip (according to two recent 100+ pouch selling studies) or tips way too low to make it worth a trader's time sitting in the gem shop. Because I'm into RPing my trader as a true business person, the fact that I gain trading skill in the gem shop is irrelevent, money is the only thing that counts.
I look at gem selling as a business. I buy low, sell high. Everyone that deals with me makes money, except maybe the dwarven appraiser, I really dont know what he does with all of those rock crystals and other worthless gems that he typically buys.
Some people might call what I'm doing "skimming" but most are perfectly fine with it once I explain it to them and once they realize that they are still profiting from using my services. If they are unhappy with how I do business, they could always wait around for another trader that may/may not be capable of getting a 10%+ bonus. They could also sell their pouches at rossmans for no bonus at all.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
LORDLOL
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/01/2004 07:26 PM CST
>Just so everyone knows, when I am in the gem shop doing pouches, I ALWAYS pay the customer 110% of the base value. Anything that I get from the appraiser above that is mine to keep. I do not hide this fact, and I always tell people all about it when they inquire about what I am doing.
That sounds perfectly fair, I just hope that other traders who automatically take a cut from it also make it known. I'd feel pretty cheated if I gave a trader a 10 plat tip for 1 minute of work if he also took 10 plat off the top when it took me probably 30 hours to get the gems, heh.
I am not arguing with you - I am telling you.
James A. McNeill Whistler
That sounds perfectly fair, I just hope that other traders who automatically take a cut from it also make it known. I'd feel pretty cheated if I gave a trader a 10 plat tip for 1 minute of work if he also took 10 plat off the top when it took me probably 30 hours to get the gems, heh.
I am not arguing with you - I am telling you.
James A. McNeill Whistler
KLBJORNME
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/02/2004 12:47 AM CST
Well I, like many other traders, keep a list (highlights) of those who dont tip. If one of those stumble into the shop, I take out 10% of the value. either way, they still get more money (my bonus is over 15%) both the trader and the customer still win. allthough my sign still works... <Coreano Smiles as he taps a sign reading "Dont forget to tip your trader!">
KCROWELL
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/02/2004 06:08 AM CST
Ill prolably take up that method as that list grows.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
CROLEVA
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/02/2004 05:41 PM CST
I inform people who are rated low on the rating list at least twice that because of their past record, if they want to sell their pouch through me, I will charge them 10% of the pouch. If they don't like it, they can take their pouch elsewhere.
Not that I mind not getting tipped, but it's a bad habit to form. Not tipping one leads to not tipping anyone.
~ Ahk
Not that I mind not getting tipped, but it's a bad habit to form. Not tipping one leads to not tipping anyone.
~ Ahk
FULTONJ1
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/02/2004 08:20 PM CST
Wow, seems like every month I come here it is the same conversation, just started by someone new. It is good to see three people who admidt to skimming.
Trebber
Trebber
REASONMJ
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/02/2004 09:51 PM CST
>Wow, seems like every month I come here it is the same conversation, just started by someone new. It is good to see three people who admidt to skimming.
If they tell the person up front then it's not skimming - it's charging a fee for services. The customer always has the option to say "No thanks" and keep their gems
Apu
If they tell the person up front then it's not skimming - it's charging a fee for services. The customer always has the option to say "No thanks" and keep their gems
Apu
KCROWELL
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/03/2004 07:42 AM CST
>>Wow, seems like every month I come here it is the same conversation, just started by someone new. It is good to see three people who admidt to skimming.
admit - To grant as true or valid, as for the sake of argument; concede.
I suppose what we did does fit the definition of "admit" but giving the connotation of the word (you only "admit" to a guilty act), I wouldnt say it's the right one to use.
Im not going to say to a customer "I skim" either. The word Skim implies that I am embezzeling their gem money. This is not what I am doing. I am paying them a flat rate above their pouch value.
What I'll typically say is "I'll buy that pouch from you for 10% more than it's worth." In fact, the gem shop appraiser has no part in this transaction. What will happen is either they'll give me their pouch, Ill appraise it, and then offer them 10% more or they'll SHOW it to me, I'll appraise it, and they'll BARTER for 10% more than it appraises for. I also handle fur bundles the same way. This system enables me to deal pouches and furs anywhere in the realms. I have been known to even buy pouches and furs in the bazaar tent while Im running tables, using this system.
**I wont buy tied pouches in this way though due to the fact that they appraise as a single item instead of 70 for an untied pouch. Tied pouches mean that profitability cannot be guaranteed through the law of averages. When I deal in tied pouches, I just sell them for tips like everyone else. This is also the only time that I hold people accountable for not tipping with the tip reporting list that we now have at our disposal.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
admit - To grant as true or valid, as for the sake of argument; concede.
I suppose what we did does fit the definition of "admit" but giving the connotation of the word (you only "admit" to a guilty act), I wouldnt say it's the right one to use.
Im not going to say to a customer "I skim" either. The word Skim implies that I am embezzeling their gem money. This is not what I am doing. I am paying them a flat rate above their pouch value.
What I'll typically say is "I'll buy that pouch from you for 10% more than it's worth." In fact, the gem shop appraiser has no part in this transaction. What will happen is either they'll give me their pouch, Ill appraise it, and then offer them 10% more or they'll SHOW it to me, I'll appraise it, and they'll BARTER for 10% more than it appraises for. I also handle fur bundles the same way. This system enables me to deal pouches and furs anywhere in the realms. I have been known to even buy pouches and furs in the bazaar tent while Im running tables, using this system.
**I wont buy tied pouches in this way though due to the fact that they appraise as a single item instead of 70 for an untied pouch. Tied pouches mean that profitability cannot be guaranteed through the law of averages. When I deal in tied pouches, I just sell them for tips like everyone else. This is also the only time that I hold people accountable for not tipping with the tip reporting list that we now have at our disposal.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
CROLEVA
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/03/2004 10:24 AM CST
If you have no reputation as a poor tipper, you have nothing to worry about with me. If you do have such a reputation, your biggest concern might be me "forcing" you to tip by stating a 10% charge *if you want to sell your pouch with me*. This is far from skimming. No need to twist my words.
Skimming is (according to the popular definition) quoting a price lower than that told to you by the appraiser in order to profit without the knowledge of the client who has given you the pouch. I've done it once or twice before about 25 circles ago and never since.
Please keep your accusations to yourself.
~ Ahk
Skimming is (according to the popular definition) quoting a price lower than that told to you by the appraiser in order to profit without the knowledge of the client who has given you the pouch. I've done it once or twice before about 25 circles ago and never since.
Please keep your accusations to yourself.
~ Ahk
PHANTOM00I
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/03/2004 03:45 PM CST
Heyo All,
Is this the self generating thread? It seems to have the constitution of a cockroach, even nuclear war wouldnt stop it....
Can someone get rid of it? Let traders do what traders want! Their reputation will be record of there actions....let customers do what customers want! Its their blood sweat and tears we are selling...if you dont like it, trade some other way !!! (liberal use of the exclamation mark to be noted please).
Muleskinner Elsulose
Is this the self generating thread? It seems to have the constitution of a cockroach, even nuclear war wouldnt stop it....
Can someone get rid of it? Let traders do what traders want! Their reputation will be record of there actions....let customers do what customers want! Its their blood sweat and tears we are selling...if you dont like it, trade some other way !!! (liberal use of the exclamation mark to be noted please).
Muleskinner Elsulose
KCROWELL
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/03/2004 04:36 PM CST
>>Is this the self generating thread? It seems to have the constitution of a cockroach, even nuclear war wouldnt stop it....
You're right there Elsulose. This is the thread that won't go away. I too thought it died several months ago but somehow, it got revived. It seems a lot more tame this time around and I am thankful that it hasent yet degraded, as it did before.
As much as I hate to help perpetuate the discussion, I couldn't resist responding to the post that revived it this time around. It was the following quote that caused me to feel the need to defend myself:
>>My viewpoint is if you take money from the gem seller for a app you got that is bigger than you whisper or tell me you're not a trader and you should drop that guild and find a new one.
All that I meant in my response (and I should have stated this more explicitely) is that all traders are different. I view the purpose of a trader as a business person, finding ways to make profit in most, if not everything that they do. To me, relying solely on tips for selling pouches does not fit in with my view of being a trader. So as you can imagine, when someone suggests that the way that I've been handling gems makes me unfit as a trader, I feel the need to state my point of view in an attempt to defend myself and/or any other trader who takes a risk, goes out on a limb, and conducts their business in a new, creative, and unique way.
Many traders handle business in many different ways. What I love about this guild is that no two traders make money or gain circle related experience in quite the same way. We all have found very different niches, routines, and business strategies. How many guilds can really say that?
I have found a way to avoid relying on tips in a very unique and RP way and it works! There are many other ways to handle gems that will be equally acceptable to the Elanthian population, including working for tips. I say if what you're doing as a trader is working for you and making you happy, keep at it as you're living the Elanthian dream.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
You're right there Elsulose. This is the thread that won't go away. I too thought it died several months ago but somehow, it got revived. It seems a lot more tame this time around and I am thankful that it hasent yet degraded, as it did before.
As much as I hate to help perpetuate the discussion, I couldn't resist responding to the post that revived it this time around. It was the following quote that caused me to feel the need to defend myself:
>>My viewpoint is if you take money from the gem seller for a app you got that is bigger than you whisper or tell me you're not a trader and you should drop that guild and find a new one.
All that I meant in my response (and I should have stated this more explicitely) is that all traders are different. I view the purpose of a trader as a business person, finding ways to make profit in most, if not everything that they do. To me, relying solely on tips for selling pouches does not fit in with my view of being a trader. So as you can imagine, when someone suggests that the way that I've been handling gems makes me unfit as a trader, I feel the need to state my point of view in an attempt to defend myself and/or any other trader who takes a risk, goes out on a limb, and conducts their business in a new, creative, and unique way.
Many traders handle business in many different ways. What I love about this guild is that no two traders make money or gain circle related experience in quite the same way. We all have found very different niches, routines, and business strategies. How many guilds can really say that?
I have found a way to avoid relying on tips in a very unique and RP way and it works! There are many other ways to handle gems that will be equally acceptable to the Elanthian population, including working for tips. I say if what you're doing as a trader is working for you and making you happy, keep at it as you're living the Elanthian dream.
~Broker Teloxius
Can I interest you in some unrequested advice or opinions? I have plenty.
JORDAND1
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/03/2004 07:24 PM CST
The only injustice in the Gem Shop, is me getting whined at because I come in and sell gems for friends. I cant count the number of times Ive been told Im wasting pouches because I sell in sleep mode if Im already locked, and friends ask me to sell. Theres a reason I ignore most people when Im in there, and thats the biggest part of it.
Canten
Canten
GOSSFORD
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/04/2004 09:41 AM CDT
<<Theres a reason I ignore most people when Im in there, and thats the biggest part of it.
Canten <-- The original Trader Rebel.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
Canten <-- The original Trader Rebel.
http://www.drtraders.net/gallery
http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=drealms
UPSHIFT
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/05/2004 12:02 AM CDT
That's why I love you, Canten!
And everyone knows that all the pouches that go through the gem shop belong to me.
Oh.. except when there are other Traders there...
Two words: Tipping List
Solves all your problems!
-Veii
Veii's Veranda : http://www.drveii.com <- new and improved!
- The Tipping List -
- The Index of Trader Services -
- An Origami Calculator -
And everyone knows that all the pouches that go through the gem shop belong to me.
Oh.. except when there are other Traders there...
Two words: Tipping List
Solves all your problems!
-Veii
Veii's Veranda : http://www.drveii.com <- new and improved!
- The Tipping List -
- The Index of Trader Services -
- An Origami Calculator -
JORDAND1
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/05/2004 09:37 AM CDT
See, I dont even need to complicate my life with a tipping list, I just stick to selling for friends for the most part, they know how to tip. Heck, most of them tip VERY Generously. Ive got a few regulars who bring me 30-40 pouches at a time to sell, and I buy them at my regular bonus, and then they tip me knowing full well that I will sell them with speculate finesse up to get me more money.
You cannot rely on the people that wander in, build up your relationships with a select group of people. That is your best bet, unless your name is Apu, Veii, Badtooth, or Canten<hums>.
Canten
You cannot rely on the people that wander in, build up your relationships with a select group of people. That is your best bet, unless your name is Apu, Veii, Badtooth, or Canten<hums>.
Canten
NOCONAWOLV
Re: Injustice In the Gem Shop
04/17/2004 02:56 PM CDT
<<< In fact, when my friend was training up her trader, she'd often sit in the Theren, Riverhaven, and Shard gem shops, where she didn't have to compete with bigger names in Crossing, and she complained constantly about the atmosphere in Theren. What's going on, I wonder>>>>
Huh? I do have to chime in here. I sell pouches in Theren, and moved there to get away from the chatter, rudeness, and other aspects of the larger towns. I have found people in Theren to be gracious and wonderful. In addition, if I decide not to take a tip, it may be for several reasons. I try not to take tips from empaths or from people with small pouches. On the days following the invasions in Theren, I did not take tips in honor of all of those that fought for the province. Perhaps, as in the previous posts, there are reasons for not accepting tips that go much deeper than assumed.
~Crimsonday-Glad to have retired her services to Therengia
Huh? I do have to chime in here. I sell pouches in Theren, and moved there to get away from the chatter, rudeness, and other aspects of the larger towns. I have found people in Theren to be gracious and wonderful. In addition, if I decide not to take a tip, it may be for several reasons. I try not to take tips from empaths or from people with small pouches. On the days following the invasions in Theren, I did not take tips in honor of all of those that fought for the province. Perhaps, as in the previous posts, there are reasons for not accepting tips that go much deeper than assumed.
~Crimsonday-Glad to have retired her services to Therengia
