I wanted to make this a bit more broad than my typical discussion on khri.
I used a stat respec pot yesterday. I dropped charisma to racial base (10), then pumped disc to 50.
What I noticed was A) I can only mark twice now, whereas at 30 charisma I could mark thrice. I suspect 20 is the breakpoint? And B) most absolutely amusing to me is I can run Prowess and avoid and never drop below 90% concentration, usually not even below 95%. But if I add hasten (tier 1 utility) my concentration drops to 0 in 20 minutes.
If anyone wonders, I actually love Prowess now that I can keep it up. It makes moving in to a new hunting area a lot easier, since I don't like to milk them until nothing moves (I know Elec, I know).
With 50 disc and 30 everything else (except charisma), if I'm willing to let my confidence bonus fart along, where would my next stat points want to go? Should I keep pushing Disc, or is confidence so important I need to go ahead and bite the charisma bullet?
Semi unrelated, but I can't figure out what thief magic skills actually do for us, once you break the initial 'can't stand' thing. It doesn't change pulse or cost or effect, does it?
And have museum stealing mechanics changed? I tried a run yesterday before/after respec and failed both times. The second time I failed so badly I set off the @#$% alarm, which I've never done. Locks at 220. Used to be able to open the jewelry case without even using safe, today I couldn't do it with safe and focus.
BADGOPHER
NINEVAH1
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 07:10 AM CST
>>Should I keep pushing Disc, or is confidence so important I need to go ahead and bite the charisma bullet?
Can you hide, BS, and train stealing without problems? If so then pump disc (intel and stam too when disc starts to get expensive). Confidence's benefits are most noticeable in PvP, but as long as it's above neutral I've never had problems with PvE so as long as you are able to to be successful in training I wouldn't worry about charisma.
The problem I think you are going to run into is the fact that charisma is the number one stat for Prowess, so eventually you are going to have to start training it when it doesn't work at-level.
>>Semi unrelated, but I can't figure out what thief magic skills actually do for us, once you break the initial 'can't stand' thing. It doesn't change pulse or cost or effect, does it?
They determine potency and duration of Khri. I don't have any data and just going from my experience, and what other's have shared, I think Tier 1 cap between 300-400 and Tier 4 is 800+. With just over 900 IM and a couple ranks under 800 Utility I can get 10 minutes with Guile (which I'm assuming is capped duration) and 9 minutes with Sagacity. Both of those are Tier 4.
IM skill also determines how many Khri you can start with a single command. I can start 8 with one command. I want to say IM (and maybe the other skills) also reduce the cooldown timer when you stop a Khri before it's full duration. I can start a Khri the immediately stop it and use Khri Meditate once, and when the RT is up I can start that same Khri again. I've noticed that the cooldown timers have gotten shorter as I've gotten more skill, but I've not tested anything.
Can you hide, BS, and train stealing without problems? If so then pump disc (intel and stam too when disc starts to get expensive). Confidence's benefits are most noticeable in PvP, but as long as it's above neutral I've never had problems with PvE so as long as you are able to to be successful in training I wouldn't worry about charisma.
The problem I think you are going to run into is the fact that charisma is the number one stat for Prowess, so eventually you are going to have to start training it when it doesn't work at-level.
>>Semi unrelated, but I can't figure out what thief magic skills actually do for us, once you break the initial 'can't stand' thing. It doesn't change pulse or cost or effect, does it?
They determine potency and duration of Khri. I don't have any data and just going from my experience, and what other's have shared, I think Tier 1 cap between 300-400 and Tier 4 is 800+. With just over 900 IM and a couple ranks under 800 Utility I can get 10 minutes with Guile (which I'm assuming is capped duration) and 9 minutes with Sagacity. Both of those are Tier 4.
IM skill also determines how many Khri you can start with a single command. I can start 8 with one command. I want to say IM (and maybe the other skills) also reduce the cooldown timer when you stop a Khri before it's full duration. I can start a Khri the immediately stop it and use Khri Meditate once, and when the RT is up I can start that same Khri again. I've noticed that the cooldown timers have gotten shorter as I've gotten more skill, but I've not tested anything.
ABSOLON
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 07:19 AM CST
<<Semi unrelated, but I can't figure out what thief magic skills actually do for us, once you break the initial 'can't stand' thing. It doesn't change pulse or cost or effect, does it?
Khri have potency just like spells, but you just use them at a level that's determined by your skill up to a cap. In this way, skill is more directly tied to potency for krhi than it is for spells, since for khri you're always operating at your personal cap whereas for spells skill only determines your upper cap to potency and it's up to the user to use enough mana to reach it.
Sitting/standing to start a khri is effectively altering the skill check for the khri and thus makes the khri less/more difficult. I.e. if a khri normally requires a minimum of 100 ranks while standing and you only have 50 then you're not going to be able to use it while standing. Assuming sitting knocks off 100 ranks to the requirement then you'd be able to start the khri while sitting. This results in potency differences as is the thief equivalent of adjusting mana input the same way as adjusting the amount of mana put into a spell does, albeit with only a binary setting. I.e. you're effectively putting less 'mana' into your khri by sitting in order to make it easier to 'cast' which results in a weaker effect.
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Khri have potency just like spells, but you just use them at a level that's determined by your skill up to a cap. In this way, skill is more directly tied to potency for krhi than it is for spells, since for khri you're always operating at your personal cap whereas for spells skill only determines your upper cap to potency and it's up to the user to use enough mana to reach it.
Sitting/standing to start a khri is effectively altering the skill check for the khri and thus makes the khri less/more difficult. I.e. if a khri normally requires a minimum of 100 ranks while standing and you only have 50 then you're not going to be able to use it while standing. Assuming sitting knocks off 100 ranks to the requirement then you'd be able to start the khri while sitting. This results in potency differences as is the thief equivalent of adjusting mana input the same way as adjusting the amount of mana put into a spell does, albeit with only a binary setting. I.e. you're effectively putting less 'mana' into your khri by sitting in order to make it easier to 'cast' which results in a weaker effect.
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NINEVAH1
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 07:30 AM CST
>>Sitting/standing to start a khri is effectively altering the skill check for the khri and thus makes the khri less/more difficult. I.e. if a khri normally requires a minimum of 100 ranks while standing and you only have 50 then you're not going to be able to use it while standing. Assuming sitting knocks off 100 ranks to the requirement then you'd be able to start the khri while sitting. This results in potency differences as is the thief equivalent of adjusting mana input the same way as adjusting the amount of mana put into a spell does, albeit with only a binary setting. I.e. you're effectively putting less 'mana' into your khri by sitting in order to make it easier to 'cast' which results in a weaker effect.
I'm not sure that it actually weakens the potency of the Khri when you sit to start it. On 3.1 release Ricinus stated that it just lowers the minimum cap of skill needed to start a Khri. So I think works more like the Mastery magic feats without the constant phantom skill bonus.
There is also the Delay option which lowers the skill cap that it takes to get full potency from a Khri. I know in the past before I had the skill to cap Khri sitting and using delay resulted in a longer duration and more potent effect.
I'm not sure that it actually weakens the potency of the Khri when you sit to start it. On 3.1 release Ricinus stated that it just lowers the minimum cap of skill needed to start a Khri. So I think works more like the Mastery magic feats without the constant phantom skill bonus.
There is also the Delay option which lowers the skill cap that it takes to get full potency from a Khri. I know in the past before I had the skill to cap Khri sitting and using delay resulted in a longer duration and more potent effect.
ABSOLON
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 08:04 AM CST
I'm going off of memory, but I'm 99% sure that sitting changed the duration. Thinking about it more I think it actually was an increase to it, in which case I was remembering it in the wrong direction. It changed it at any rate, so given that it changes the duration then it is very likely to also change the potency in the same direction.
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BENNETTJ13
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 08:09 AM CST
Sitting makes the check easier. Thereby making your skill worth more in the check. Thus duration increases and potency should right along with it.
Now sit and delay start.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Now sit and delay start.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
BADGOPHER
Re: Thief stats discussion
02/13/2016 08:13 AM CST
I just figured out why I was having museum problems.
Uh, turns out there are two jewelry cases. I was working the wrong one.
Uh, turns out there are two jewelry cases. I was working the wrong one.
