Do we know what the requirement model is going to look like (i.e. are we going to follow a model similiar to Rangers, Barbarians, or Paladins)?
How will grandfathering magic ranks work for those that already trained magic? How will that affect TDP's considering most or all Thieves went into the hole on TDP's? Has this already been discussed, if so, which posts should I read for the lastest info on this subject?
I ended up with -1860ish at the switch, I've got 1050 total magic ranks, all but 2 of the skills being over 100 ranks. I know it's been said that things should even out (TDP wise) when we get converted to using magic, but how will this work if my skills are already nearly at circle?
- p.s I tried many ways to write this to make is sound articulate, but it still seems clumsy to me, I just hope someone understands the gist of these questions.
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
BLCKGRD4
NIKPACK
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 07:08 AM CST
<<Do we know what the requirement model is going to look like (i.e. are we going to follow a model similiar to Rangers, Barbarians, or Paladins)?
Quite simply, we don't. From what I've read from the GMs' posts, much of the thief (and trader) conversion has been delayed until well after the 3.0 release and resulting bug fixes. It's shell is there, but no plans have been made so far. So if you have ideas or feedback, now would be the time to start cultivating them.
Nikpack
Quite simply, we don't. From what I've read from the GMs' posts, much of the thief (and trader) conversion has been delayed until well after the 3.0 release and resulting bug fixes. It's shell is there, but no plans have been made so far. So if you have ideas or feedback, now would be the time to start cultivating them.
Nikpack
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 07:37 AM CST
I would assume thieves end up similar to barbs: khri train augmentation and possibly warding, and this are required. If things are rewritten to make ambushes (or whatever) function off debilitation there's that. But MD, attunement, sorcery, TM, are probably going to be left at 0.
I could see inner magic being a PM analogue, and could possibly see some utility but its vastly more likely thieves come out roughly the same as barbs, using 2-3 supernatural skills and none of the rest, though they will be able to train them via classes without penalty I guess.
Pants.
I could see inner magic being a PM analogue, and could possibly see some utility but its vastly more likely thieves come out roughly the same as barbs, using 2-3 supernatural skills and none of the rest, though they will be able to train them via classes without penalty I guess.
Pants.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 08:43 AM CST
>>I would assume thieves end up similar to barbs: khri train augmentation and possibly warding, and this are required. If things are rewritten to make ambushes (or whatever) function off debilitation there's that. But MD, attunement, sorcery, TM, are probably going to be left at 0.
>>I could see inner magic being a PM analogue, and could possibly see some utility but its vastly more likely thieves come out roughly the same as barbs, using 2-3 supernatural skills and none of the rest, though they will be able to train them via classes without penalty I guess.
This basically. Thieves aren't magic users. I would expect your skills and official guild requirements to line up with the barbarian guild. The only real difference is that barbs were discouraged from training it, so I expect conversions would be similar (i.e. you'd keep whatever ranks you earned but only be grandfathered up to circle requirements + 12 circles, or some such).
>>I could see inner magic being a PM analogue, and could possibly see some utility but its vastly more likely thieves come out roughly the same as barbs, using 2-3 supernatural skills and none of the rest, though they will be able to train them via classes without penalty I guess.
This basically. Thieves aren't magic users. I would expect your skills and official guild requirements to line up with the barbarian guild. The only real difference is that barbs were discouraged from training it, so I expect conversions would be similar (i.e. you'd keep whatever ranks you earned but only be grandfathered up to circle requirements + 12 circles, or some such).
GRIM45
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 09:07 AM CST
My guess is we'll follow barbs and substitute utility for debilitation as far as magic skills go. Excepting we'll be fine with arcana.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
BLCKGRD4
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 11:49 AM CST
>The only real difference is that barbs were discouraged from training it, so I expect conversions would be similar (i.e. you'd keep whatever ranks you earned but only be grandfathered up to circle requirements + 12 circles, or some such).
So, If we end up follow the Barbarian model for magic requirements, and If grandfathering works as you state above, I would basically be hosed on TDP's a second time? I know there's no way my magic skills would regain 1800 TDP's, but in this model, i'd be lucky to gain 200 TDP's in this grandfathering scenario. Which is far from "it'll even out in the end" as I think the GM's said it should work (though I might be confusing two separate things, i'm not sure).
Just go on the If's there, I know nothing has been officially stated so things could change, however, in that scenario, would I get hosed a second time on TDP's if my magic skills are already close to circle?
I don't want to give the impression that I'm griping here, I'm just trying to see what I could expect TDP wise whenever this happens. I've already all but killed off my TDP debt (down to -399 from -1860ish), and I didn't do the respec since I figured it'd be faster to work off the debt than regain lost stat points, also I just wanted to see how long it'd take me to do :).
here's my magic skillset if it'll matter at all.
Inner Magic: 123
Attunement: 112
Arcana: 267
Targeted Magic: 154
Augmentation: 111
Debilitation: 100
Utility: 95
Warding: 92
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
So, If we end up follow the Barbarian model for magic requirements, and If grandfathering works as you state above, I would basically be hosed on TDP's a second time? I know there's no way my magic skills would regain 1800 TDP's, but in this model, i'd be lucky to gain 200 TDP's in this grandfathering scenario. Which is far from "it'll even out in the end" as I think the GM's said it should work (though I might be confusing two separate things, i'm not sure).
Just go on the If's there, I know nothing has been officially stated so things could change, however, in that scenario, would I get hosed a second time on TDP's if my magic skills are already close to circle?
I don't want to give the impression that I'm griping here, I'm just trying to see what I could expect TDP wise whenever this happens. I've already all but killed off my TDP debt (down to -399 from -1860ish), and I didn't do the respec since I figured it'd be faster to work off the debt than regain lost stat points, also I just wanted to see how long it'd take me to do :).
here's my magic skillset if it'll matter at all.
Inner Magic: 123
Attunement: 112
Arcana: 267
Targeted Magic: 154
Augmentation: 111
Debilitation: 100
Utility: 95
Warding: 92
Blackguard Danoryiel
"Sogan udazama umbunor fau arrazoi inishatu seiremisai. (Only the fallen have nothing to despair)"
MAGIC1300
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 02:30 PM CST
>I think the GM's said it should work
Nope... they basically said that we're screwed now, and we'll be slightly less screwed later when we can train 2-3 magic skills. They've acknowledged that Barbs/Thieves get a raw deal TDP-wise, but are unwilling to change it. I personally think it would be easy to just give barbs and thieves a few extra TDPs when circling to close the gap some, but when I suggested it and other possible solutions I got a lot of "this has been discussed before, you're beating a dead horse so suck it up and move on" comments.
As far as grandfathering, I assume you'll get no extra benefit to having so much magic before it happens. Would be nice if it went into the bonus pool since you had to go above and beyond to train it, but I doubt that will happen.
Nope... they basically said that we're screwed now, and we'll be slightly less screwed later when we can train 2-3 magic skills. They've acknowledged that Barbs/Thieves get a raw deal TDP-wise, but are unwilling to change it. I personally think it would be easy to just give barbs and thieves a few extra TDPs when circling to close the gap some, but when I suggested it and other possible solutions I got a lot of "this has been discussed before, you're beating a dead horse so suck it up and move on" comments.
As far as grandfathering, I assume you'll get no extra benefit to having so much magic before it happens. Would be nice if it went into the bonus pool since you had to go above and beyond to train it, but I doubt that will happen.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Thieves, Magic/Supernatural, and TDP's
02/26/2013 07:06 PM CST
>>So, If we end up follow the Barbarian model for magic requirements, and If grandfathering works as you state above, I would basically be hosed on TDP's a second time? I know there's no way my magic skills would regain 1800 TDP's, but in this model, i'd be lucky to gain 200 TDP's in this grandfathering scenario. Which is far from "it'll even out in the end" as I think the GM's said it should work (though I might be confusing two separate things, i'm not sure).
I wouldn't expect to gain 1800 TDPs from magic grandfathering, regardless of how they do it. The idea is to grandfather you to a minimum state where you can use your abilities well, and I'd expect to gain 100-200 ranks in a couple of your skills to achieve this end.
I wouldn't expect to gain 1800 TDPs from magic grandfathering, regardless of how they do it. The idea is to grandfather you to a minimum state where you can use your abilities well, and I'd expect to gain 100-200 ranks in a couple of your skills to achieve this end.
