Kinna getting rediculous I think... the reasons for including all the survival skills to pick from are good and should be considered by the GMs and rethought. A lot of people who are paying to play this game think its a pretty good idea and not all of them are thieves. Most people in DR in general agree that the exclusion of those skills is a kind of silly thing to do, but there has to be some sort of standard of circling. Every guild has things that their character might not want to train and personally my old thief I used to play never trained stealing besides the basic requirements, but it doesnt mean that a set standard of skills shouldnt be in place. Kinna silly to want Thieves to be some "free hippie whatever you feel like doing survival guild". You can still be the free hippie Thief if you want... you just wont circle in the Thief guild. Sounds like you should be a Ranger honestly... they pop boxes pretty decent and all, and you dont have to learn stealing that way.

Valcer,

STOP BEATING A DEAD HORSE! It's been dead since May of last year! If you didn't like the requirements you have had plenty of time to join a new guild. Stop stop stop stop compairing our requirements to other guilds. It's a crapy arguement and holds no water. Since you cant find the time to go back and read old post I went and found one that I hope is clear enough for you to understand why your "But other guilds" argument is a waste of time.

<<<Schvartz,

Your suggestion was interesting enough to warrant a quick discussion among GMs. Thank you for the good idea; you are often right up there with a solution proposal as quick as a blink, and proposing solutions rather than just grumbling deserves loads of respect. :D However, I'm going to move right now to nip this whole grumbling about Survival thing in the bud.

You guys have heard the expression, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile," right? Well, that's what the people who are crying about your Survival requirements are doing right now. They're complaining that the unprecedented flexibility we just gave you isn't enough flexibility. That it's "unfair" that we're asking you to enjoy this flexibility within certain reasonable parameters. That your requirements are still exactly that -- requirements.

Get real, people! Understand when you're onto a good thing. Understand that we've given you as much freedom to choose your primary advancement skills as we can realistically give you and still call these "requirements". Understand that, if you want a "wild card" skill because that would support your "day job," we'll gladly add that for you -- as a ninth required Survival skill for everyone. So be careful what you wish for. You already have as much liberty as you're getting.

If you're an Empath by day, or a Ranger, or whatever, then you can simply train your First Aid or your Skinning in your own time. There is nothing whatsoever to stop you from training 1000 ranks of First Aid or Skinning in addition to your 8 required Survivals. Don't forget that, no matter what Guild you pretend to be, you're actually a Thief, and -- like every other Guild -- you are always going to be required to train appropriate skills for your advancement. You can do anything else you like in your own time.

Folks, this is the end of the argument. We're not changing the way Survival is set up. The only thing that can change about Survival requirements at this time is fine tuning the amount of each skill we require. In the interests of saving you wasted time and energy, there is no point continuing to berate the List Of 10 because we've already made huge concessions in the interests of allowing the flexibility you asked us for; that some of you are acting like a great injury has been visited upon you because this flexibility happens not to be quite the personalized, individual requirements you're now demanding frankly makes you sound like Diana Ross when her backstage catering includes pink flowers rather than mauve (and yes, I know this from personal experience.) So quit it already; you're being unreasonable and diva-ish and it makes your butt look big.

Thank you.

SGD Mean Maelona Morlamgar>>>>>

I agree that we dont exactly have much flexibility. But at the same time I agree with the justification as to why those certain skills are excluded. I believe rather than complain about which skills are excluded a better solution would be for us to possibly get a new survival skill or two added. The one that immediately springs to mind would be burglarly, maybe its not a viable option or there is not enough to emcompass into it to justify it being its own seperate skill. Although I would like to think that when or IF we ever get rooftops that burglary would be a possibility, there are lots of things it could involve and lots of ways you could train the skill.

We have some extremely creative people in this guild who post regularly, im sure you can come up with something, but those who complain and do the "i want" gripe constantly are really not going to encourage progress.

Valcer, go plug your skills into this, im curious if you really would be as well off as you seem to believe as a ranger.

http://terkowitz.st.hmc.edu/rangercalc.html

Im not saying we have it easy or anything of the sort, but Rangers do have some pretty tough reqs and actually have 5 specific skills, yes its better than having to pick 8, but they do have a decent overall survival req.

i already did plug em in and yes i would rather be a ranger still id be a few circles under what i am now(like 6)but id actually be alot higher cause instead of huntin for 1 hour just to mindlock disarm one time my whole life, i woulda been swimmin,foragin,tendin,climbin,trackin id have all them locked instead, plus its not counting my stealing and i dont have scouting, my scouting would be higher then my stealing because its easier to work( i had a ranger in fallen) so throw in an extra 300 lessons and id be same circle or higher right there

id rather have general reqs anyday over pickin 8 outta 9, ive learned 30 ranks of swimmin in the same time that it took me to get my 2 ranks of disarm to circle, and i didnt even need swimmin that was just in my spare time between gettin boxes and poppin em, i run to 3 different towns searchin for boxes then after i find none like usual i go hunt for some and get them very slowly


Don't fear the dark, fear what hides in it.