BackSTAB.

<<And yet the skill contested in both poach/snipe>>

<<BackSTAB>>

It should teach if it's contested

~Kevalia~

>>Doesn't ambush sight teach backstab though.


No that doesn't. Ambush sight teaches LT.

I don't see how snipe itself would teach backstab. Yes it uses hiding/backstab skill to pull off, but I don't think we should learn it via snipe.

Snipe does help erk out more hiding experience in some cases. But thats about it. I personally think Snipe should just be contested on hiding ability. But thats me.

Jim

>>Please test before answering a question if you are not sure. Ambush sight from hiding teaches backstab, hiding and LT.


My apologies oh great and powerful thief from the plat side of things. I never realized it taught BS before, since I always backstab right after. I knew for a fact it taught LT and hiding, but did not realize it taught backstab.

But for posting without knowing for sure, considering I have played my thief now for over 80 circles and nearly 10 years, I thought it just taught the two, how many other folks have done the same thing? And than apologized in the end for not having the exact answer?

Not everyone is exactly perfect. ::shrugs::


But I do apologize for not realizing it taught backstab. I was mistaken in my answer.

Since it seems it does teach backstab, I don't think it should. Since your umm...throwing it from a distance and its sand/dirt your tossing into the eye's, I don't think it should teach backstab.

And since I have been polite the last few months with my postings, all I ask is that you show the same respect, Algothi. I haven't blown up lately, I haven't been snarky lately, heck, I've actually been informative! Go figure, I'm growing up! ::rolls his eyes::.

But all in all, I apologize for not having ALL of the answer. Thats what this place is for yes? To be more informative. Huh, wild concept.

Jim

>>Relax Jim, I think you mistook my intent of the last post. My point is simply that if you are going to post a definite, its better to take the time to go the length and provide data to support it. It will at least keep the amount of miss-information on the boards to a minimum.

Apologies again. I did mistake your intent. And not everyone has all the time to just go and do. Which at the moment, I didn't. And since I always backstab just after using ambush sight, you could see the mis-information that I had provided.

>>I don't want to derail this thread, so on to the part relevant to the topic.

>Since it seems it does teach backstab, I don't think it should. Since your umm...throwing it from a distance and its sand/dirt your tossing into the eye's, I don't think it should teach backstab.

>>I think the problem here is people are reading into the skill's name too much. The skill was named when the game was first created, and it uses were limited to a single command. Considering all the abilities the skill is now contested in, I think its better to think of the Backstab skill as a catch all skill for all the underhanded surprise attack techniques a thief learns from the guild.

I can see that whole thing there. Except for one thing. Why should it teach backstab? I can see it teaching light thrown, which it does; But why not it teach brawling? Since its an underhanded move? I could see it teaching brawling more than I can see it teaching backstab.

1) Your going into hiding to use the move:

>Learn hiding experience.

2) Throwing the dirt/sand into some one/things eyes:

>Learn light thrown.

3) Pulling the move off successfully:

>my opinion should Learn Brawling since its an underhanded move.

Jim

If Backstab were renamed Dirty Fighting today, do you think there would be any confusion regarding what should teach it?

>>It is my opinion that ambush sight is in a sort of no-man's land as far as what it should teach, and rather than not having it teach a third skill I think that backstab is most appropriate (as a thief-only bonus). I say this because one can learn backstab by ambushing an eye (or neck, or leg, or whatever they'd like that is not a back) and they do so in an underhanded way, and one can learn brawling without any sort of underhanded tactic whatsoever (and so I do not necessarily think that ambush sight being an underhanded tactic makes it something that should teach brawling).


And to reply to this Lelenne;

I have been lobbying to have it removed. Ambushing body parts from hiding, your slicing, and drawing and lunging and thrusting and chopping. If one wants to learn backstab, I say (my opinion yet again), it should be by way of the BACKSTAB verb.

When you "Ambush" from hiding, it does not say;

>You leap from hiding, landing Behind your opponent and draw your blade through his abdomen.

It states, You leap from hiding and surprise your opponent! You step backward and draw your weapon...etc etc.

If it were reworded to say you leap from hiding behind your opponent, I would be all for it teaching the backstab skill. But it doesn't.

As for dirt/sand throwing, can't everyone throw dirt? Not just thieves. What your saying Squirrel, is that it be a bonus for a thief to learn backstab from it. I understand that. But at the same time, it already teaches hiding and light thrown. I just think it would make more sense for it to teach brawling, instead of backstab. Since you can't exactly throw dirt into the back of someone's head and cause them to lose some sort of perception. I mean, it would be hitting them in the back of the head. Kinda pointless there.

Again, just opinions of one rambling man.

Jim

I am firmly of the belief that reducing any skills versatility and methods of training to a single verb would be a huge step backward in evolving the game. Its encompasses surprise/stealth attacks at the moment and I am generally happy with its current scope.


Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

>But for posting without knowing for sure, considering I have played my thief now for over 80 circles and nearly 10 years, I thought it just taught the two, how many other folks have done the same thing? And than apologized in the end for not having the exact answer?

Which is why most people go and test first, before telling someone else they're wrong. Just saying...

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

>>If Backstab were renamed Dirty Fighting today, do you think there would be any confusion regarding what should teach it?

>>You probably shouldn't take such a narrow view on the skill. It's called backstab, but its various uses clearly show it to be more of a general ability to ambush enemies above and beyond what non-Thieves can do.

>>I am firmly of the belief that reducing any skills versatility and methods of training to a single verb would be a huge step backward in evolving the game. Its encompasses surprise/stealth attacks at the moment and I am generally happy with its current scope.

>>Yes. Amazingly, the thieves guild, having a skill for underhanded attacks makes sense. And given what the backstab skill actually encompasses, it makes the most logical choice for said skill.

Quoting all these things for emphasis. This isn't the first skill whose uses have gone beyond the exact name. I'm sure at some point they'll get around to changing the name of the skill to more accurately reflect what it does.