Since Javac and Armifer are really active right now, something else I've been wondering.
What is the actual thieves guild skill?
Right now, it seems to be backstabbing and stealing. I say that because we do not have a required rank in BS, while we do have one in stealing. But BS is the guild-specific skill.
This leads me to my next question, would there be any willingness to remove the thievery requirement entirely? It is, by far and away, the most loathed required skill, and about half the people I know literally pay for a second account to teach it to them. The risk vs. reward isn't there for most players, even if it's possible to make money with it using the goofy pawn shop mechanics.
Backstabbing has its own really punitive issues as well, since it requires hiding, melee, and a weapon, to activate. It would be nice if it was re-homed somehow too to create a skill with some less niche applications.
Also, it would be really nice if we could move away from every thief ability requiring hiding. The current crop of events (world events and pay events) usually have enemies with either disabled hiding or boss mechanics where they flex each time you hit them, meaning alpha strikes like backstab are doing basically regular attack damage but with more RT. For the first comment, invasion and pay-event critters either seem to actually turn off hiding sometimes, or if they flex they're flexed with perception vastly outside their nominal combat range. At the end of the day it means I can't hide on things I can otherwise hit with weapons, while naked and buffed, which removes all of my abilities (snipe, backstab, ambush).
BADGOPHER
DR-JAVAC
Re: Thief guild skill
12/30/2017 01:13 PM CST
>Right now, it seems to be backstabbing and stealing.
It's Backstabbing (though I would like to rename it so it can apply to more things).
>remove the thievery requirement entirely?
Really unlikely.
>The risk vs. reward isn't there for most players
I have an approved system that should make this better. It should make risk entirely negatable by player skill, so you won't get caught unless you the player do something unwise. I'm waiting on a core system to get through QC before I can start on this system, though. I hope to have it out this year, but I don't want to make promises.
>flex
Flex cretaures have some issues, and perception is definitely one of them. During flex invasions, this basically means you have to have stealth skills outclassing the best attacker's offense because the creature they're hitting has similar perception. During events like Duskruin, where it's one on one, I'd have to look at how Flex creatures get their perception scores.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
It's Backstabbing (though I would like to rename it so it can apply to more things).
>remove the thievery requirement entirely?
Really unlikely.
>The risk vs. reward isn't there for most players
I have an approved system that should make this better. It should make risk entirely negatable by player skill, so you won't get caught unless you the player do something unwise. I'm waiting on a core system to get through QC before I can start on this system, though. I hope to have it out this year, but I don't want to make promises.
>flex
Flex cretaures have some issues, and perception is definitely one of them. During flex invasions, this basically means you have to have stealth skills outclassing the best attacker's offense because the creature they're hitting has similar perception. During events like Duskruin, where it's one on one, I'd have to look at how Flex creatures get their perception scores.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
BADGOPHER
Re: Thief guild skill
12/30/2017 01:28 PM CST
I didn't think thievery would get nixed, but never hurts to ask. I'm looking forward to your new system. I noticed that breaking and entering was on the 2018 list so assume that's it?
>flex
So I generally divide flex things into 2 categories, and maybe this isn't remotely right. 1) Boss critters which flex per-hit, and 2) Regular enemies which flex to you.
The former you touched on, but the latter have always seemed to be to be generated with very high stats or something, because up until a magic breakover around 2 or 3 hundred ranks they're way harder than the appraisals would indicate.
>flex
So I generally divide flex things into 2 categories, and maybe this isn't remotely right. 1) Boss critters which flex per-hit, and 2) Regular enemies which flex to you.
The former you touched on, but the latter have always seemed to be to be generated with very high stats or something, because up until a magic breakover around 2 or 3 hundred ranks they're way harder than the appraisals would indicate.
SHIFT3
Re: Thief guild skill
12/30/2017 02:19 PM CST
> Ambush Choke can now be used on creatures (and only creatures) even if they already have a mouth full of dirt.
Good change for low-level thieves. The dirt thing still needs to be fixed, even if it's a MT unlimited dirt dispenser.
> Really unlikely.
Suggestion:
1. Rename Thievery to piracy (or honestly, leave it as is. Thievery is all-encompassing).
2. Backstab now trains and uses Thievery (or Piracy).
3. Rename backstab to secrecy. Using your thief abilities trains and contests secrecy.
- Hiding: Anytime you learn stealth, you also get a little secrecy.
- Mark: use for every-day learning. Augments the appraisal checks now.
- Backstabbing: continues to train secrecy as it does today, in addition to thievery (or piracy).
- Khris: Trains secrecy, if done from hiding.
- Contacts: Trains secrecy, with the same CD as bardic breathing exercises.
- Signs: trains at the same rate and CD as recall trains scholarship.
- Slip and Voice Throw now contest secrecy.
- New Ability: Shroud. Your actions aren't seen by others. Trains and contests secrecy. Concentration hit per action. Excludes engage, but includes combat actions. (Hiding in plain sight). Requires a feature hiding cloak.
- New Ability: Mask. Uses performance and secrecy to hide your features, wounds, and perceives. They see nothing through the haze of your aura.
- New Ability: Distract. Active ability. Your next successful dodge puts you into hiding and behind the target.
- New Ability: Shake gaze. Attempts to break "watch" effects currently on you.
- New Ability: Passive. Based on your secrecy knowledge, you get to "reroll" certain checks if the first roll was really bad. Hide. Stalk. Backstab. Stealing. It's still possible for the 2nd roll to fail, but it's a chance.
> I have an approved system that should make this better. It should make risk entirely negatable by player skill, so you won't get caught unless you the player do something unwise.
Or do that. That sounds cool too :P
Good change for low-level thieves. The dirt thing still needs to be fixed, even if it's a MT unlimited dirt dispenser.
> Really unlikely.
Suggestion:
1. Rename Thievery to piracy (or honestly, leave it as is. Thievery is all-encompassing).
2. Backstab now trains and uses Thievery (or Piracy).
3. Rename backstab to secrecy. Using your thief abilities trains and contests secrecy.
- Hiding: Anytime you learn stealth, you also get a little secrecy.
- Mark: use for every-day learning. Augments the appraisal checks now.
- Backstabbing: continues to train secrecy as it does today, in addition to thievery (or piracy).
- Khris: Trains secrecy, if done from hiding.
- Contacts: Trains secrecy, with the same CD as bardic breathing exercises.
- Signs: trains at the same rate and CD as recall trains scholarship.
- Slip and Voice Throw now contest secrecy.
- New Ability: Shroud. Your actions aren't seen by others. Trains and contests secrecy. Concentration hit per action. Excludes engage, but includes combat actions. (Hiding in plain sight). Requires a feature hiding cloak.
- New Ability: Mask. Uses performance and secrecy to hide your features, wounds, and perceives. They see nothing through the haze of your aura.
- New Ability: Distract. Active ability. Your next successful dodge puts you into hiding and behind the target.
- New Ability: Shake gaze. Attempts to break "watch" effects currently on you.
- New Ability: Passive. Based on your secrecy knowledge, you get to "reroll" certain checks if the first roll was really bad. Hide. Stalk. Backstab. Stealing. It's still possible for the 2nd roll to fail, but it's a chance.
> I have an approved system that should make this better. It should make risk entirely negatable by player skill, so you won't get caught unless you the player do something unwise.
Or do that. That sounds cool too :P
DR-JAVAC
Re: Thief guild skill
12/30/2017 06:37 PM CST
>I noticed that breaking and entering was on the 2018 list so assume that's it?
Yes. I wasn't sure if the 2018 list was out yet. My plan is to finish a B&E system sometime this year. Hopefully sooner than later, but no promises.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Yes. I wasn't sure if the 2018 list was out yet. My plan is to finish a B&E system sometime this year. Hopefully sooner than later, but no promises.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
BADGOPHER
Re: Thief guild skill
12/30/2017 07:31 PM CST
>Yes. I wasn't sure if the 2018 list was out yet. My plan is to finish a B&E system sometime this year. Hopefully sooner than later, but no promises.
A potential 2018 list was released as part of the 'State of Elanthia' meeting Lyneya had around Christmas, if you want to review what was proposed.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KlJW-Q-CX-dAyLUX8xCB3WSAG9-hR0JLMwZBbaMGtE/edit
A potential 2018 list was released as part of the 'State of Elanthia' meeting Lyneya had around Christmas, if you want to review what was proposed.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KlJW-Q-CX-dAyLUX8xCB3WSAG9-hR0JLMwZBbaMGtE/edit
MILLATHEUNDYING
Re: Thief guild skill
01/03/2018 10:55 PM CST
The best idea I have for renaming Backstab, is to call it Wits. Whether you're a highwayman on the wild road, a smug-looking feller slipping through a crowd in the city square, or a swashbuckling blackguard clinging to the starboard prow with a salty sabre 'twixt your teeth, its the one thing every rogue needs. Wits and Luck. And the moonies and traders probably have got Luck locked up somewhere already.
Apart from that I just want to say that Slip should stay imperceptible as it is now. And Voice Throw, I haven't tested it much, but I hope that it can be used without having every character glancing at you, or hearing your voice come from the snarky potted plant, or whatever. Anonymity is what makes that skill fun. If someone's going to abuse it to cuss, insult, and make threats so over the top that a GM needs calling in, a player knowing who the culprit is isn't going to make matters any better... probably worse, if anything.
I flat-out don't use Sign in rooms where I don't know if everyone else is a thief. Maybe it was bugged last time I used it, but a freshly rolled character could see me cracking my knuckles while I was circle... 70, maybe? I honestly don't see why that's a thing at all.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Apart from that I just want to say that Slip should stay imperceptible as it is now. And Voice Throw, I haven't tested it much, but I hope that it can be used without having every character glancing at you, or hearing your voice come from the snarky potted plant, or whatever. Anonymity is what makes that skill fun. If someone's going to abuse it to cuss, insult, and make threats so over the top that a GM needs calling in, a player knowing who the culprit is isn't going to make matters any better... probably worse, if anything.
I flat-out don't use Sign in rooms where I don't know if everyone else is a thief. Maybe it was bugged last time I used it, but a freshly rolled character could see me cracking my knuckles while I was circle... 70, maybe? I honestly don't see why that's a thing at all.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
